Why are my tops leaning over?

[DonnyO]

I'll be as detailed as I can.

I know I bit off a lot doing an organic mix for my first real attempt at growing indoors but it's been going pretty well. I had some issues with drooping early on and I thought it was from overwatering but they were rootbound before I transplanted and the pots were just running through and not retaining anything. After I transplanted to the fabric pots they took off. They were topped once about a month ago, recovered very fast and kept on. They have always had the red stripes in the stems and I'm not sure if this is a deficiency or genetic as theses seeds were from a clone I got from an experienced friend, I finished it outdoors. It didn't produce much but it was fantastic. It was pollenated from the wind and only produced 10 seeds.

All along the tops have been leaning over near the end of the light cycle each day. Just the very top goes sideways on the branches near the top of the plant, maybe the top 1.5 inches. I was trying to figure out if the light was too much, too much water, not likely as was already suspecting overwatering in the beginning. They totally recover by the next day and perk up. I have been increasing the water until now it is running off. about a gallon or a bit more and watering every2-4 days, waiting for them to dry out some between watering. Since increasing the water they are responding better, growing faster but even after fully watering they do this leaning.

I think I was getting a slight nutrient burn as just the very tips of some of the leaves turned very light green and then brown, but only on about 5 leaves. I think watering more has resolved that. Also the new growth is much lighter green then darkens and the new growth seems to start kind of clustered and almost twisting, maybe genetics, not sure. I have been battling heat but I have been able to keep in the 70's most of the time. I'm working on more/better climate control in my garage. I also live in the desert so humidity is difficult to keep above 30-40%.

All of this is just to jump in and learn. I know I'm making mistakes but I've read the entire internet so I should be good to go, right?

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated!

I suspect one is male but I'm not exactly sure yet. The one on the left looks female but maybe herm, the right one I believe is male but nothing is clear to me yet.

Male?

Female?

Starting to lean

New Growth

Setup

From Seeds
9 Weeks
2.5 ft
7 Gal Fabric Pots
Organic - Sunshine Mix, Worm Castings, DE, Neem, Insect Fraas, Wood Ash, various others
Water 2-4 Days, Inline Hose Filter
PH 6.5
Espoma Plantone 4-4-4
Migro Full Spectrum LED 660w
24" @ 60%
4x4 Tent
65-85Deg (in garage)
Grown many years outdoors

 

[BB22]

I’m a new grower.

Your plants look healthy.

I think that they’re female… maybe too early to tell.

More experienced folks will offer an opinion.

Good luck

 

[Greenersideoflife]

Overall looks good. A couple things though:

-Strip lower section of plant
-If possible, create a stable temp for day and night. Humidity and temp spikes and drops can create vulnerability
-Lower PH to between 6.0-6.2 (you can raise that closer to harvest in order to limit the amount of nutrients the plant is up taking)
-First picture might be a male. Keep an eye on it
-Don’t over water and focus on your drybacks

This sensor is a cheap way to track soil moisture percentage

Amazon.com

Hope some of this helps. Good luck!

 

[Harpua88]

There's a lot of different things in your post, but it seems like it's the "tops leaning over" issue that's most important. Your plants do look quite healthy overall, but solving this could lead to them truly thriving.

Is it possible that your light is too close to the plants? High temps, and low humidity could be adding to this kind of stress. Could you also be overfeeding? You're experienced enough to get all of those things, including possibly overwatering under control, but how close is your light to the plant tops? Does the light have variable strength settings?

 

[Bilber]

I'll be as detailed as I can.

I know I bit off a lot doing an organic mix for my first real attempt at growing indoors but it's been going pretty well. I had some issues with drooping early on and I thought it was from overwatering but they were rootbound before I transplanted and the pots were just running through and not retaining anything. After I transplanted to the fabric pots they took off. They were topped once about a month ago, recovered very fast and kept on. They have always had the red stripes in the stems and I'm not sure if this is a deficiency or genetic as theses seeds were from a clone I got from an experienced friend, I finished it outdoors. It didn't produce much but it was fantastic. It was pollenated from the wind and only produced 10 seeds.

All along the tops have been leaning over near the end of the light cycle each day. Just the very top goes sideways on the branches near the top of the plant, maybe the top 1.5 inches. I was trying to figure out if the light was too much, too much water, not likely as was already suspecting overwatering in the beginning. They totally recover by the next day and perk up. I have been increasing the water until now it is running off. about a gallon or a bit more and watering every2-4 days, waiting for them to dry out some between watering. Since increasing the water they are responding better, growing faster but even after fully watering they do this leaning.

I think I was getting a slight nutrient burn as just the very tips of some of the leaves turned very light green and then brown, but only on about 5 leaves. I think watering more has resolved that. Also the new growth is much lighter green then darkens and the new growth seems to start kind of clustered and almost twisting, maybe genetics, not sure. I have been battling heat but I have been able to keep in the 70's most of the time. I'm working on more/better climate control in my garage. I also live in the desert so humidity is difficult to keep above 30-40%.

All of this is just to jump in and learn. I know I'm making mistakes but I've read the entire internet so I should be good to go, right?

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated!

I suspect one is male but I'm not exactly sure yet. The one on the left looks female but maybe herm, the right one I believe is male but nothing is clear to me yet.

Male?
View attachment 1986996

Female?
View attachment 1986999


Starting to lean
View attachment 1986993

New Growth
View attachment 1986997

Setup
View attachment 1986994

From Seeds
9 Weeks
2.5 ft
7 Gal Fabric Pots
Organic - Sunshine Mix, Worm Castings, DE, Neem, Insect Fraas, Wood Ash, various others
Water 2-4 Days, Inline Hose Filter
PH 6.5
Espoma Plantone 4-4-4
Migro Full Spectrum LED 660w
24" @ 60%
4x4 Tent
65-85Deg (in garage)
Grown many years outdoors

If you can @DonnyO, take a couple pictures of different sites on the suspected male.....

I'm watching.....

 

[DonnyO]

There's a lot of different things in your post, but it seems like it's the "tops leaning over" issue that's most important. Your plants do look quite healthy overall, but solving this could lead to them truly thriving.

Is it possible that your light is too close to the plants? High temps, and low humidity could be adding to this kind of stress. Could you also be overfeeding? You're experienced enough to get all of those things, including possibly overwatering under control, but how close is your light to the plant tops? Does the light have variable strength settings?

Yes the leaning over has me somewhat baffled. I have had the light down to 40% and now back up to 60% at 24" right now. I've adjusted both power and height but they still do the same thing so I don' think that's it. A local hydro store guy that has been doing it for years said they are just getting ready to sleep and it's nothing to worry about but I've never seen that before and I don't take much from that statement. My concern is that when I flip them they will need to support buds and they won't be able to but I guess they will bulk up when they go in to flower.

 

[DonnyO]

If you can @DonnyO, take a couple pictures of different sites on the suspected male.....

I'm watching.....

Will do tomorrow, I'll try to get better ones from both.

 

[GNick55]

i’ve had plants “going to sleep” 2 hours before lights out..
looks like 2 females..

 

[Harpua88]

Yes the leaning over has me somewhat baffled. I have had the light down to 40% and now back up to 60% at 24" right now. I've adjusted both power and height but they still do the same thing so I don' think that's it. A local hydro store guy that has been doing it for years said they are just getting ready to sleep and it's nothing to worry about but I've never seen that before and I don't take much from that statement. My concern is that when I flip them they will need to support buds and they won't be able to but I guess they will bulk up when they go in to flower.

You can deal with supporting heavy buds when the time comes......not a bad problem to have to solve. ;). All I can say is that I had to turn my light back down to 40% twice, and that was at 3ft above the plants. I don’t know how strong your light is, but that could be an issue at 2ft above. Heat and very low humidity could add to that stress.

 

[DonnyO]

If you can @DonnyO, take a couple pictures of different sites on the suspected male.....

I'm watching.....

I looked today and there aren't much better pics I can get at this time but they are exploding in growth!

I think I need to flip them to 12/12 now. If they stretch a lot I will barely have room at this point. I guess they will show there true colors soon if I do that.

 

[BigBlonde]

i’ve had plants “going to sleep” 2 hours before lights out..

I've seen that, too. I'm amazed at how they seem to know they're nearing the end of their day. They also start to reach for the light before their day begins. This video shows it: Cannabis Seed to Harvest Full Time-Lapse Video.

I understand that silica can help make the plant's stems stronger. For that and other reasons, I add rice hulls to the soil. The rice hulls also help with drainage in the soil, somewhat like perlite. I also add perlite though.

 

[DonnyO]

I've seen that, too. I'm amazed at how they seem to know they're nearing the end of their day. They also start to reach for the light before their day begins. This video shows it: Cannabis Seed to Harvest Full Time-Lapse Video.

I understand that silica can help make the plant's stems stronger. For that and other reasons, I add rice hulls to the soil. The rice hulls also help with drainage in the soil, somewhat like perlite. I also add perlite though.

I'm using a good amount of diatomaceous earth in the soil for critters but also is said to be a good silica source.

The stocks are large and healthy and none of the rest of the plants are wilting or leaning so I guess if they stay healthy I'm ok.

 

[BigBlonde]

I'm using a good amount of diatomaceous earth in the soil for critters but also is said to be a good silica source.

That's good. It is a source of silica. As for critters, it's usually used at the top layer of the soil. It controls insects because it scratches their bodies and legs, which releases moisture from their bodies. That loss of moisture kills them. It only controls critters that crawl, though, like ants. I learned about that when I killed an ant hill with it.

The stocks are large and healthy and none of the rest of the plants are wilting or leaning so I guess if they stay healthy I'm ok.

They do look healthy, except for the purple coloration on the stems. That can indicate one or more problems. I'm not sure what might be causing it. Some nutrient deficiencies can cause it (magnesium), as can temperature or pH. If they were mine, I think I'd just focus on giving them proper care and letting them grow. A tablespoon of Epsom Salts in the water, for magnesium, might be worth a try, though.

65-85Deg (in garage)

65º is a bit cold for them. I didn't see a heater in the tent. It might help to keep the temperature above 72º or so. 85º is fine. I set my controllers to increase the exhaust fan when the temperature is 82º.

Water 2-4 Days

I don't recommend watering based on a schedule. My preferred method is to use a soil moisture meter to check the moisture level at or near the bottom of the pot. That's where it matters most. I water when the meter reads near the bottom of the scale. I also look at the plants and compare what I see them doing with the reading on the meter.

 

[DonnyO]

That's good. It is a source of silica. As for critters, it's usually used at the top layer of the soil. It controls insects because it scratches their bodies and legs, which releases moisture from their bodies. That loss of moisture kills them. It only controls critters that crawl, though, like ants. I learned about that when I killed an ant hill with it.


They do look healthy, except for the purple coloration on the stems. That can indicate one or more problems. I'm not sure what might be causing it. Some nutrient deficiencies can cause it (magnesium), as can temperature or pH. If they were mine, I think I'd just focus on giving them proper care and letting them grow. A tablespoon of Epsom Salts in the water, for magnesium, might be worth a try, though.


65º is a bit cold for them. I didn't see a heater in the tent. It might help to keep the temperature above 72º or so. 85º is fine. I set my controllers to increase the exhaust fan when the temperature is 82º.


I don't recommend watering based on a schedule. My preferred method is to use a soil moisture meter to check the moisture level at or near the bottom of the pot. That's where it matters most. I water when the meter reads near the bottom of the scale. I also look at the plants and compare what I see them doing with the reading on the meter.

We have been using DE for years, in the garden, chicken coop, dog areas. I do use it on top as well as mixed in. Also Neem Cake and between the two I have no bugs. The Desert has very few bugs to deal with but ants are everywhere. I have had them in the soil with plants outside but not infested and they don't seem to cause problems except eating good stuff from the soil. Good trick for ants, a few pennies on the ground keeps them away from the house. They don't like copper, snails either.

Yeah the red has been there since the beginning, maybe genetic as some have said. I have seen a deficiency with that but it runs deep in to the leaves as well, this is not like that. It seems to be happening less with new growth though so maybe something was going on.

The temp is interesting. Plants outside here don't seem to care, 50's or less at night and over 100 sometimes in the day. As long as they have been in partial shade and get water they thrive. I have serious climate control issues right now in the tent but the weather hasn't been too much to overcome. I'm working on that so next run won't have extreme temp swings. They can handle a lot but people are so hyper focused on "ideal" environment 24/7 that is just not doable for everyone. Doesn't mean you can't get good, or even great product. For instance, VPD has been over 2 most of this grow and they are doing pretty good considering. Some days I can get it close to 1 but never below that. The way people talk about VPD they should be dead. I will say that a strong LED is a learning curve in a tent, heat, distance, etc.

I don't water on a schedule and I'm learning to understand how to water fabric pots and there more consistent now.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Ponky]

These are your missing pieces. Cheap. Get them right away.

 

[DonnyO]

Just a quick update.

They really took off in the last few days and I had to flip them to flower because of their height and I'm not seeing this any more. I was running the lights 16 hours before and now 11 so they are never going to see that scenario again.

Now to see what they can really do!

 

[Harpua88]

I looked today and there aren't much better pics I can get at this time but they are exploding in growth!

I think I need to flip them to 12/12 now. If they stretch a lot I will barely have room at this point. I guess they will show there true colors soon if I do that.

How about some new pics...... :)

 

[DonnyO]

How about some new pics...... :)

No problem but lights are out right now. Decided to run them at night since I am in the desert and will be battling heat during flower.

 

[BudgetGrower]

I had a similar problem with my plants, spent some time going through the plant food etc, I gave them some Epson salt, because there was a low amount of magnesium in my dry plant food.
One of my plants.

Does your leaves look like this?

 

[Harpua88]

No problem but lights are out right now. Decided to run them at night since I am in the desert and will be battling heat during flowerr.

Oh don't worry. Just get some good flash bulbs, really bright ones, and run over and snap a bunch of pictures.......No, don't do that at all, you know that. But yeah, run the lights during the cool of night, just make sure everything is fully dark during lights off.