Why is a chiller important?

[Capulator]

I know this sounds dumb to a lot of people, but why is a chiller important in coco, when your root ball temps will be around ambient temp anyway?

High levels of DO in the solution?

Aren't the plants getting plenty of DO with all the perlite most growers are mixing in with their coco?

I can see a chiller being important in RDWC or DWC or even ebb flow with hydroton or similar media... but I am trying to get my head around why it is important to chill the water in coco.

 

[Capulator]

http://books.google.com/books?id=3u...esnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwADhG#v=onepage&q&f=false

This link shows a study on the water temps of tomatoes and how these temps affect nutrient uptake. I see the best uptake at around 80 degrees, in both macro and micro elements.

Now, I understand that warmer temps create a suitable environment for pathogens. However, the same warmer temps also provide the best environment for the good stuff like baccilis and trichoderma spp (which will attack other fungi like pythium). In fact, at lower temps these bennies do NOT thrive.

I read a very long post on brown algae at IC mag done by Richierich. In it he detailed that when using EWC tea, he could run his water temps way higher with no problems.

I feel that if you are running coco and bennies, it would be better to X the chiller and the PITA hoses, pumps, $, and everything else that goes along with it.

I am feeling like unless you are running sterile, or in a system where the O2 is delivered via the water which is basically your media... MPB, UC, etc , there is no need for a chiller.

Just my .02.

 

[Capulator]

In a few months I will be able to run my room with all one strain, and I can get in to some serious side by sides.

Anyone do a google search for hydroponics lately? for dozens of pages most of what you will see are links to people trying to sell you shit. I just got off the phone with a company, and while I was on hold they had a message playing telling me that I should add a bottle of azamax to my order because it will completely eliminate any spider mite problem I may have.... I laughed. So did my mites.

 

[mastacheeser]

chillers are for people that do some kinda water culture
rdwc, aeroponics, things of that sort

 

[MakinGoo]

I've never heard people using a chiller with coco.. I'm running my plants in coco & I don't use a chiller.. My plants come out great without the use of a chiller..

 

[Capulator]

I have seen a few threads here with reference to using a chiller to keep water temps at 68*


in coco.

Prompted me to do some research. Back the day we used aquarium heaters, not chillers to keep nutrient temps on the warm side. The plants never complained. This was in NFT.

 

[CelticEBE]

Great thread Capulator! I'm currently running in a 2:1 perlite to coco mix doing a drain to waste. I chose to run a cool coil in my nutes because of everything that I had read about higher DO levels in the water at 68 degrees. I also like the idea that during the last two weeks I can drop the temps on my nutes easier than I can drop my room temps to bring the purples out. I'm along for the ride on this thread as I am interested in what others have to say.

 

[freegrow]

http://books.google.com/books?id=3u...esnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwADhG#v=onepage&q&f=false

This link shows a study on the water temps of tomatoes and how these temps affect nutrient uptake. I see the best uptake at around 80 degrees, in both macro and micro elements.

Now, I understand that warmer temps create a suitable environment for pathogens. However, the same warmer temps also provide the best environment for the good stuff like baccilis and trichoderma spp (which will attack other fungi like pythium). In fact, at lower temps these bennies do NOT thrive.

I read a very long post on brown algae at IC mag done by Richierich. In it he detailed that when using EWC tea, he could run his water temps way higher with no problems.

I feel that if you are running coco and bennies, it would be better to X the chiller and the PITA hoses, pumps, $, and everything else that goes along with it.

I am feeling like unless you are running sterile, or in a system where the O2 is delivered via the water which is basically your media... MPB, UC, etc , there is no need for a chiller.

Just my .02.

maybe like you said the cold kills or inhibits microbal acton

because from what I understand dwc rdwc etc. any water working system with sterile meida should also be thought of as a sterile system
no bennies or not many so the cold is proly to control them too (good and bad)

 

[opt1c]

cold for the color and also it keeps shit from growing/changing in your res if you're using a large res to feed coco and you like to throw a lot of products in it; that's been my experience at least... though you can get the color by just placing frozen ice cubes of pure water on top of the coco and letting them melt in while you flush :joint:

 

[Capulator]

color change in my experience has come from dropping air temps last couple weeks, which will also drop root temps. Also, with some strains you don't need to do anything for them to change their color. The link above shows best nute uptake is in the 80 degree range. Do you want your plants eating and getting fat, or looking good... I guess its a preference. Plants change color when it gets cold because they get stressed. I read somewhere that this can also affect taste and smell.

I spoke with a friend of mine who is big in hydro, not medicinally. He explained to me that the most favorable species of bacteria (bacillis), and beneficial fungi (trichoderma) operate MUCH better at the higher temps. I am running some coco this time around alongside an MPB. The MPB will def have a chiller set to 64. No bennies. All sterile. Gonna use hydrofungicide every day if I have to. The coco Im going no chiller, and adding lots of bennies to keep the bad shit away. I'm going to keep my res for those girls at 80 degrees and see what happens.

 

[Donkdbz]

Sterile nutes no need for chiller.....but when I add any sort of carb product if my res gets above 75 it smelled of straight nasty funk and shit started growing.

Chiller at 70 no funky fresh and gobs of crap growing in my res

 

[mrdizzle]

IMO coco doesnt need a chiller, you could have your res at a simmer and it wouldnt hurt coco

I have been reusing coco, pulling out the main root, flushing, and transplanting, plants thrive. I could probably take a dump in my res and nothing but dank would come out the other end

donkdbz said it with the carbs thou, you can make some serious yeast with carbs, and air stone, and some luke warm nutes

 

[CelticEBE]

Cap

Im not disagreeing with anything you've said. Just stated my reasons for running a chiller. So far my girls seem to be fattening up quite nicely. I used RTI's Mykos when I transplanted my girls so Im not running benes in my res. I think both of us have valid points.

 

[TrichromeFan]

I use no chiller for my coco. If res temps stay 70-75 I can get up to a week on a tank. If I run more like 80 things start to get funky with sediment in 2 days. The canna nutes more so than the cns17 nutes. At this point, I see no need to use a chiller for coco in my setup. I'll just make sure that any tanks that I want to last for a week won't have any carbs to add to the mix.

-TF

 

[Capulator]

Sterile nutes no need for chiller.....but when I add any sort of carb product if my res gets above 75 it smelled of straight nasty funk and shit started growing.

Chiller at 70 no funky fresh and gobs of crap growing in my res

Donk, Are you using any type of pump in the res to circulate water (no airstone). In my pond experience, stagnant water will get to smelling much faster. Also, with an airstone in the res maybe you are brewing it. Is the res in the dark? Perhaps you could mix the carbs separately and add them to just the coco.

IMO coco doesnt need a chiller, you could have your res at a simmer and it wouldnt hurt coco

I have been reusing coco, pulling out the main root, flushing, and transplanting, plants thrive. I could probably take a dump in my res and nothing but dank would come out the other end

donkdbz said it with the carbs thou, you can make some serious yeast with carbs, and air stone, and some luke warm nutes

Dizzle, are you running bennies in that system? We always re use the soil on our property because over time, they colonize and that's how you get very healthy soil.

Cap

Im not disagreeing with anything you've said. Just stated my reasons for running a chiller. So far my girls seem to be fattening up quite nicely. I used RTI's Mykos when I transplanted my girls so Im not running benes in my res. I think both of us have valid points.

I agree and I am enjoying and learning from your current thread. I am running coco for the first time alongside MPBs for the first time... So I have a lot of food for thought.

I use no chiller for my coco. If res temps stay 70-75 I can get up to a week on a tank. If I run more like 80 things start to get funky with sediment in 2 days. The canna nutes more so than the cns17 nutes. At this point, I see no need to use a chiller for coco in my setup. I'll just make sure that any tanks that I want to last for a week won't have any carbs to add to the mix.

-TF

TF, are you sterile or bennies?


When I run a warmer res, I may put a pump with filter that will re-circulate the water in the res water fall style and a koi fish bio mat on the bottom of it. Drop a teaspoon of microbelift and some trichoderma and see what happens. I feel like airstones in the res are not necessary. You still get sediment. I stopped using them about a year ago and went to using a home depot 330GPH pump on its side in the bottom of the res on full blast. Works like a charm, and no sediment.


Its really good to have you guys on this thread. I have learned a lot from all of you and hope to give back some knowledge soon. My MPB/coco espalier room will be running very soon. Hopefully I dont fuck both of them up, since I am relying on the coco to save me when the MPB shits the bed. :banana1sv6:

 

[mrdizzle]

yea I use roots organic benies, I think its actually called roots organism

 

[CelticEBE]

Oh another thing I forgot to add. My rez is actually in my closet, where my ballasts are, and if I wasn't running the cool coil things would get ugly in there. Especially since I'm using carboload. I think this may actually be my last run with carboload. I got a sample of botanicare's raw sweet and it seems a lot less goopy.

 

[Capulator]

yea I use roots organic benies, I think its actually called roots organism

And there it is. that's why it is so good to recycle your particular coco. Those bennies have formed a nice little colony there, and they will continue to multiply if you use the same coco. It should "build" like soil does in a natural setting as long as you flush the salts from it every once in a while. No wonder you can shit in your res. I bet those bennies would love the taste of a dizzle turd.

Oh another thing I forgot to add. My rez is actually in my closet, where my ballasts are, and if I wasn't running the cool coil things would get ugly in there. Especially since I'm using carboload. I think this may actually be my last run with carboload. I got a sample of botanicare's raw sweet and it seems a lot less goopy.

Raw is a good product. I have used it, and carboload, and the raw is less goopy. I have found hibrix is the cheapest and most effective when it comes to providing carbs for the plants and food for the bennies.

You guys gave me the idea this morning of having a separate watering consisting of just carbs to avoid contaminating the res, that you could apply once or twice a week, maybe after the the flush and half way through the cycle. I am not sure if the carbs really help the plant, or if they only help the bennies, but either way if you are going the beneficial route, you need to feed them. Synthetic plant food is not in their diet.

Example:

3 reservoirs. 1 with water. one with nutes and water, and one with water and carbs/sugars (you could have an airstone in this one and brew bennies (like an EWC tea) in it as well (you are supposed to brew for 48 hours right?).

day 1: nutes/carbs
day 2: nutes
day 3: carbs
day 4: nutes/carbs
day 5: nutes
day 6: nutes
day 7: flush

Or something like that pending plant needs. . All automated. DTW.

 

[TrichromeFan]

I use no air stones in my res. I have a circulation pump in the res; but I found that running it constantly heats things up a few degrees, making things evolve faster in the res. So instead I have my circulation pump start mixing up my feed tank ten minutes before it pumps up to the plants. I feed 6 days regular nutes. The seventh is a top feed with tea, fulvic, molasses, etc. The ppm's are usually no more than 400, so that in effect is my flush. I would advise using a a seperate feed pump and lines for the top feed. That way it keeps your base nute res more stable. These are things borrowed and modified from motherlode, leadsled, and benderdundat. Flower is almost over for this round. No burn. No lockout. Happy plants. I will do the same next round.

-TF

 

[Capulator]

I use no air stones in my res. I have a circulation pump in the res; but I found that running it constantly heats things up a few degrees, making things evolve faster in the res. So instead I have my circulation pump start mixing up my feed tank ten minutes before it pumps up to the plants. I feed 6 days regular nutes. The seventh is a top feed with tea, fulvic, molasses, etc. The ppm's are usually no more than 400, so that in effect is my flush. I would advise using a a seperate feed pump and lines for the top feed. That way it keeps your base nute res more stable. These are things borrowed and modified from motherlode, leadsled, and benderdundat. Flower is almost over for this round. No burn. No lockout. Happy plants. I will do the same next round.

-TF

GREAT IDEA. You are doing exactly what I thought about this morning.

If you ran a small amount of water just to flush the lines, do you think you could get away with having the same feed line for all? I'm just thinking less materials at this point.

No more than 400 ppm base nute solution?

my fulvic alone runs 100 ppms...