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Why my photoperiodic plant stopped growing ?

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Why my photoperiodic plant stopped growing ?

richard1806 38 Replies 4,595 Views
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I haven't sprayed anything on the leaves; the affected leaves are few and located at the bottom. They appeared very slowly, and it's not a major issue, but I want to understand why they appeared so I won't make the same mistake again.

Based on my research, it seems to be a magnesium deficiency, but I'm not sure if that's the exact cause.
Do you have any air flow on it? Aka a fan of any kind, and what’s the humidity sitting at? I’m a new grower so I may not be of much help and this might sound stupid but have you tried to gently rub it off? It almost looks like it could be just some type of dust or dirt. Also, look up some images of mold, powdery mildew, etc. it kind of looks like it could be one of them? Again new grower could be wrong. I’m gonna say tho with almost certainty that it’s not mag deficiency. Below imma put a pic of a perfect example of mag def I went through it myself not too long ago
 

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gnats?., any itty bitty tiny flies flying/walking on medium surface?..
might need a magnifying glass to see and might have to just stare at surface for a bit..
 
gnats?., any itty bitty tiny flies flying/walking on medium surface?..
might need a magnifying glass to see and might have to just stare at surface for a bit..
To piggyback off that here’s a picture of thrip damage. I had problems with fungus gnats in the beginning and I just used neem oil. It is not recommended by majority of growers but I’m new and didn’t know that. It did the job 🤷🏽‍♀️ my plant has received multiple flushes since then and will be flushed before flower and tbh, I don’t think it hurts much during the veg stage especially if it’s just soil sprays. Let somebody else back me up tho bc I could be way off im just letting you know how I handled it lol
 

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Do you have any air flow on it? Aka a fan of any kind, and what’s the humidity sitting at? I’m a new grower so I may not be of much help and this might sound stupid but have you tried to gently rub it off?
I have good air flow, humidity is at 55, it is not dirt for sure.

3 plants have the same issue.. each of them momentary just on 2 3 leaves.
gnats?., any itty bitty tiny flies flying/walking on medium surface?..
might need a magnifying glass to see and might have to just stare at surface for a bit..
I don't think so; I haven't seen anything so far. I'm growing them indoors, and in the evening, I move one of the plants to another location because it needs more darkness.

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They first appear on the leaf as light-colored spots, and then the spot turns yellow.

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Aside from the problems you are having, if you want her to branch out you could very gently over time tie the top down to the base. This will make her lower branches try to become the new top, and you will increase yield. Good luck with the rest.
 
Aside from the problems you are having, if you want her to branch out you could very gently over time tie the top down to the base. This will make her lower branches try to become the new top, and you will increase yield. Good luck with the rest.
I did topping and stretching on the plant you see in the picture (but way to late). Right now, I'm experimenting and learning.
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I did topping and stretching on the plant you see in the picture (but way to late). Right now, I'm experimenting and learning.
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Low stress tie down can be done at anytime for the simple fact that it doesn't stress the plant out like topping, supercropping does. For the next grow try one plant and compare it to the ones you top. Take care
 
I'm coming back with an update and another question. The plant from which the photo with the unhealthy leaf was taken now has leaves that look like this:

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It was kept with two other plants; one of them I moved outdoors because it wasn't evolving anymore, and even now, it's not evolving, but it looks healthy without any signs of disease (I stopped fertilizing it). The third plant is currently in the flowering stage and is starting to show the same signs of illness on its leaves.

What intrigues me is that I have two clones from plants 2 and 3 that also show the same signs, and I have four seed-grown plants that are two weeks old, one of which seems to be developing the same problem.

Recently, while inspecting the first plant where the issue appeared, I saw a small round-bodied bug with six legs. It was barely visible with a 30x magnifying glass.

What should I apply to the leaves? Is Alga Mic from Biobizz okay?
 
Hey Guys! Yes it's a first post but I was just going through the forums and when I saw this I figured I had 2 cents to throw in if no one minds.

To the OP, nice to see another one join the fold. Also good that you're here looking for opinions rather than just trying things on your own since as you mentioned you don't have a lot of experience. The internet rocks for learning to grow so certainly keep using it! Just to clarify, since I have no idea of the strain, the vendor it came from or your setup I'd just add a few reminders that may help you here or down the road in your next grow and also maybe ask a question or 2 about your setup.

1. Changing the environment in different ways is a form of stress on the plant. Changing light spectrum, intensities, humidity changes, watering schedules can affect different strains differently. What one strain can handle another one can't. It seems like you changed up your lights as a response to an issue you were seeing.

2. In veg, the soil needs to go through a moist/dry cycle to induce root tip growth which leads to upper tissue growth. You mention you suspect there's some water pooling at the bottom of the pot. Just as an example, if the plant was left in dry soil more than it should have been earlier in it's life, it'll send roots down to find water. If there's a pool of water at the bottom of your pot that's where the plant will start sucking up that water. The problem with that is that if the roots sit in water they're susceptible to root rot. But more importantly, if the roots are in fact sitting in water and obtaining most of their water from that spot, it would be a similar situation to overwatering. One definite sign of overwatering is a plant that grows straight up with very little lateral growth. This happens a lot with new growers as they're afraid of drying out the plant.

3. The flower soil you mentioned... from that pic in the air pot it appears there's very little to no perlite or vermiculite and it appears to be mostly peat from what my monitor shows me. If that's the case the soil will take longer to dry out as we need and the roots are in contact with a wetter soil for a longer period of time Again this can lead to the straight up effect you see here with little or weak lateral growth as it's similar to overwatering.

In general the plant looks happy, just not showing lateral growth. As for the slow growth, that can be genetic or it can be from making environmental changes more than the plant wants. Most strains decelerate a bit when transplanted. That's stress. Other forms of stress above simple tricks like LST etc. can be suspect and cause a slowdown in growth. If I were just going to rip an off the cuff statement about what's going on it would be the following, although don't take it as gospel because there's a few factors we don't have:

1. Plant turgidity looks good, looks like nutrients are ok for now.

2. From what you said about watering, I'd guess that the lack of lateral growth is due to overwatering in one way or another and there is very little root growth going on in the soil.

3. If you truly are using a single bulb home depot type LED {I'm guessing on that because of the low wattage) your growth will be slower than you may want. While in veg the plant doesn't need as much light as in flower, for decent vegetative growth you should shoot for a par of 600 or thereabouts. You can get away with less for sure but the result is slower growth and less vigorous lateral branching. If you need a par meter and have an iphone etc. there are plenty of free apps that will get you in the ballpark.

As for the spots on the leaves, I couldn't tell you. Many pests can cause that, but I would suspect your soil as a possible source for those unless your environment caused it. I've seen indoor grows where people had a crap ton of different house plants all over the house and bugs in their grow. One tour of the house to check the other plants and they found their source. Again, cheap soil is always a suspect. Even "good" soil can get bugs as well. One bag to the next, you never know. Miracle grow is kinda known for being a haven for funus gnats.

Suggestions would be, check your par with a smart phone because a 45 watt home depot bulb is kinda meh even in veg if that's what you're using. Now that you've got your plant in an air pot, think less about a water "schedule" and get to know the difference in feel between a watered plant and a dry plant. Pick it up and get used to how heavy it feels every time you go in there (which should be every day if you're really into it) and you'll know when to water. Not every strain takes in water or nutes at the same rate. Weighing it lets you know for sure when the soil is dry. Once you get the plant cycling between "wet" and dry regularly you should notice an improvement in lateral growth assuming the strain's genetics work that way. Also, there are times during the plant's life where watering picks up and slows down. That's part of learning the strain and pheno. If you keep trying new strains expect to have to watch the plant and adjust accordingly.

There are amendments that can help with root expansion, some are just ferts with higher phosphorus. To keep it simple you can also just throw a small amount of kelp in your feed water as well and it has other benefits as well.

I just noticed your last post there, those little white spots aren't a mag deficiency. That's a pest. Since you mention you used "flower" soil, if you have a moment and a magnifying glass or jeweler's loupe (you should have one for checking those trichs ;) ), take a look at the leaves close up and see if it's spider mites. At first sign, you'll see the little spots on the leaves where they've been feeding. Once they mature and keep going you'll eventually start seeing fine tight webs generally at the ends of branches where the buds are going to be.

Best piece of advice I can give is, stay stable. Dial in your environment before you even pop a seed, that way you can see where your tent or room is going to stabilize. This plant grows it's fastest in a predictable, stable and ideal environment. Constant light changes, drastic temp changes, repotting, humidity and feed changes all contribute to slower or stunted growth.

If this is the only plant you have now and you don't intend to advance any further or spend any more cash on the hobby then I'd again say just try to stabilize. Check your light, check the pot weight for watering, keep temps and. humidity stable as you can and within a couple weeks she should begin. to pick up steam all other things considered. I know not everyone is going to dive into this hobby with cash to burn right from the start and that's ok. If you intend to keep going and advance, try to level up your gear when time and money permits. If you go the tent route make sure you can evacuate air and humidity. I hate to say it because I'm not a fan of theirs but AC Infinity has done more to advance the science of home grows more than any other company. The other guys all jumped on the bandwagon as far as I can recall after the fact, but a tent, exhaust fan and of course an appropriately sized horto light help immensely in stabilizing your environment.

And lastly, what light are you going to put her under when it comes time to flower? 45 watts from any light manufacturer is going to give you mids to less than mids as cannabis needs an increase in intensity during flower and has minimum and max par values to work within, strain notwithstanding.

That's it for my first post. Hope something in there helps you out.

That was a short novel eh?
 
That post took so long you posted another pic :/

Well the bugs are making the nutrient deficiency look a bit odd but I see you found some bugs. Are they a red or pale red in color and do they lack wings? Do they look like little ticks? Notice any little webs or strings between leaves? If so they're spider mites. There are a few things that can take care of that of which I would start working on first as if you don't win that battle it won't matter what nute issues you have. A simple insecticidal soap can help. That strip fromogtothis mentioned works too but as he mentions it's toxic to humans and pets. If it is in fact spider mites you need to act quickly because they reproduce fast. You have to get rid of them before flower because once you have consumable buds on the plant it gets exponentially harder to get rid of them. If this is what you have you're going to have to treat the plant and continue treating until you're sure you've controlled the problem or they'll come back with a vengeance during flower and it's pretty much over if you expect to consume any decent bud from it. Whatever you decide to use make sure it's safe to use on a consumable plant and stay away from anything systemic you put into the soil.

Good luck bro! Don't let this incident get you down, happens to everyone eventually if they stick with it long enough. If you battle this and win you'll never forget it and it'll be a valuable tool in your arsenal if it ever happens again.

uhhhh...... you said flower soil..... did you reuse soil from other plants for this grow or did you get new soil? If it was previously used the pests could have come with the soil. And again, not all soils are equal in terms of controls. They can also migrate from bag to bag at the warehouse too.
 
sorry, didn't address the nute question. You said you're using Biobizz Grow at a rate of 4ml per liter. Are you in soil/peat or coco? I ask because if you're in peat or soil you're using 4 times the amount you'd use in coco. There's something else to mention here about manufacturer recommendations. They're there to sell you more stuff so they're usually a bit heavy handed. Add to that it appears your plant is or has been stunted and is now under stress from a pest infestation, you may not actually be at the point to up the fertilizer yet. Right now the plant is battling the pests so that's going to stunt growth until it's taken care of. Worry more about the pests first because all is lost if you don't get rid of them depending on what they are. To address the nute issue directly though, you mention this could be a mag deficiency. Not always, but generally a mag deficiency will show as yellowing between the veins in the leaf or what you could call "from the outside in". In your case the yellowing appears to be happening from the main vein outwards in the leaf. When a mag issue first starts it usually looks like new growth is yellowing. As it progresses, the spaces inbetween the veins will begin to lighten similar to what light bleaching looks like when the plant first starts to show signs. I've never used biobizz but if you are in fact in regular soil, without perlite or similar and are hitting it with 4ml per liter I would have to say you're seeing a lockout rather than a direct deficiency due to an overall lack of a particular nutrient. If this is the case I would suggest a good flush to clear out the buildup in the soil and start over again with less nute until the plant recovers.

Get rid of those pests though bro.... you're battling 2 fronts here at the same time because. you can't wait on the pests and you can't wait on a nute lockout either.

Check those nute recommendations for soil or coco and start from there.
 
The airpot is exactly 3 gallons.I didn't know that a 5-liter pot was needed; I'll remember for the future, maybe I'll move it when it gets bigger.

I didn't water it after transplantation; I wanted to let the soil dry out as much as possible, even though it wasn't very wet. However, during transplantation, I noticed very thin brown roots. Could they have been rotten or dead?

Just 12 hours ago, I barely watered the plant, and I noticed that a lot of water is coming out directly through the upper holes of the airpot. I'm not sure how I should water it since almost all the water drains out. I watered it very slowly, allowing the soil to absorb drop by drop.

As for fertilizer, I'm using Biobizz Grow with an NPK ratio of 4-3-6, adding 4ml per liter of water.

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I'm sure somebody's already said this but I havnt read thru the whole thread yet..
First thing, soil is the foundation of the plant..you need better soil with perlite and nutrients in it..or if you want to use plain soil you need a good nutrient plan
2nd, always water after transplant and you should water the soil that the root ball is about to go on top of so the roots can connect to it..for maximum efficiency put Xtreme Mykos around the root ball before transplant ..
3rd, Only change 1 or 2 things at a time while trying to fix the problem
4th, Don't stress and don't get discouraged...I'm new to growing too and realized quick that its not gonna come all at once but with the right amount of research and dedication you'll pick it up fast
 
Once they mature and keep going you'll eventually start seeing fine tight webs generally at the ends of branches where the buds are going to be.
Exactly, I saw a small spider web at the base of a plant when I was cutting it.
If this is the only plant you have now and you don't intend to advance any further or spend any more cash on the hobby then I'd again say just try to stabilize.

Yes, I probably should invest in a tent, humidity and temperature regulator. As for light, it's currently okay; I have a 45W LED and a 140W CFL.
Are they a red or pale red in color and do they lack wings? Do they look like little ticks? Notice any little webs or strings between leaves?
Exactly, the one I saw was brownish, and it looked exactly like a tick.
You have to get rid of them before flower because once you have consumable buds on the plant it gets exponentially harder to get rid of them.
Unfortunately, the plant is already in the flowering stage.
uhhhh...... you said flower soil..... did you reuse soil from other plants for this grow or did you get new soil? If it was previously used the pests could have come with the soil. And again, not all soils are equal in terms of controls. They can also migrate from bag to bag at the warehouse too.

I didn't use soil that had been previously used; I used new soil. I don't have any other plants in the apartment. It's true that I'm growing them in a closet that isn't very well insulated, but I don't understand where they could have come from since I'm on the 7th floor and there are no other plants or soil around.
You said you're using Biobizz Grow at a rate of 4ml per liter. Are you in soil/peat or coco? I ask because if you're in peat or soil you're using 4 times the amount you'd use in coco. There's something else to mention here about manufacturer recommendations. They're there to sell you more stuff so they're usually a bit heavy handed. Add to that it appears your plant is or has been stunted and is now under stress from a pest infestation, you may not actually be at the point to up the fertilizer yet

I'm using soil, and it's likely that I've used a bit too much fertilizer. However, on the fertilizers' dosage instructions, I couldn't find the exact amount to use unless using Biobizz substrate. Nonetheless, for the next plants, I've purchased substrate from Biobizz as well.

Thank you all for your suggestions and help, I will follow your advice and hopefully, everything will turn out well.
 
I'm coming back with a picture that I managed to take with a insect and some updates.

I apologize for the quality, but the camera on the phone doesn't focus very well, and I was in a hurry to take it.

Insect



This insect is flying, which is why it was difficult to take a better picture.

I really want these insects not to affect my new plants that I've started to grow. Currently, in the growing area, I have 2 new plants that are 3 weeks old, and one flowering plant that has the issues we discussed above.

The two new plants have substrate from Biobizz All Mix with vermiculite. They have already been transplanted into 5-gallon fabric pots after being in biodegradable pots with unenriched soil.

This is how the growing space looks like now:

Tent
 
Ok then, no idea what that first bug is but of course it's not a spider mite. If they're tenting on your buds or between the leaf junctions then you have a pretty good population going. If the plant that has them on it is the one I'm looking at in the clay pot in the pic above you may be able to save it but it can take a lot of constant work. I'm not a fan of spraying any chems on buds but if that's the route you want to go you may want to try the least destructive chem on them, which in this case I would think Hydrogen Peroxide to kill the adults. Another thing you can do which your neighbors with houseplants may enjoy is the usual first line defense of blowing them off the plant consistently outside. In this case you said your up in the air in an apartment so if the prevailing winds favor blowing them away from your deck or window you can try that to control them. Your neighbors will be scratching their heads as to where they got mites from :)

Few other things to consider:

1. If you bought bagged soil (looks better on those new plants and great job on the grow bags instead of clay pots) never opened it up until you got in the house and you don't have any other plants they were already living on in the apartment then they got in the house one of 3 ways: In the soil you bought; on your clothing or shoes if you've been anywhere near other gardens or forested area or they blew in on the wind (which may be a neighbor blowing the mites off THEIR plants ;) These bugs can be blown by the wind so they can get up the the 7th floor and in through a window.

2. These guys reproduce fast, so even if you're successfully blowing them off the plant or using H2O2 they've been having an orgy on your plant all along and leaving the results all over it. If you did successfully blow them off they'll be back once the babies start popping. The eggs are small so trying to pick them off ain't gonna work like on a squash plant. H2O2 doesn't work on eggs. There are other things that do but should only be used in early veg like spinosad etc. Alchohol can also be used.

3. In the end, your product may have mite eggs on it or still possibly some mites themselves. It's up to you whether you want to inhale them or not. Probably not going to kill you or alter the taste but it's a choice you'd have to make.

4. If you have them on one plant and it's next to your other plants, your other plants have them most likely. If they came in the soil and you used the same soil you definitely have them on the other plants or will start seeing them soon. When the plants are small or still in veg you have options like insecticidal soaps and you can treat the soil as well.. Again H2O2 can work on your soil and kill anything else in it as well. If you're going organic that's something to consider as peroxide kills living organisms by oxidizing them to death.

5. I wouldn't go this route but you can also use predatory mites to kill them but again they still live on the plant, they just don't eat it they eat the spider mites.

6. Successful control will show itself as a diminishing population. Matter of fact, once you give them a good thrashing it can look like they're all gone. Keep looking because babies will hatch. As you get rid of them the population decreases. The eggs will tend to be on the underside of the leaves rather than in the buds so that's a good thing I guess. Getting hit late in flower sucks.

In this case the option I would try is continually blowing them off on the plant in flower and soaps on the plants in veg. You can also spray an H2O2 solution all over the flowering plant, undersides of leaves as well etc. and keeping doing it. You can cut down their population a lot by doing this and still have useable product in the end.

There are also other things you can try like Chitosan etc. which you could use on the plants in veg. This stuff makes the plant produce it's own brand of pesticide that in sufficient levels keeps chewing or biting insect populations low but you should use it early in the game and continuously so the plant can build up it's resistance and keep it's levels high.

If there is a silver lining of sorts it may be that these guys aren't so permanent. After a thorough cleaning and with a clean and proper environment you usually won't see a return.

Best tool you can use is youtube. Tons of pest control vids specifically for cannabis. Plus tons of grow info as well.

Save those little ones though!
 
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OT but I just thought of this, you are in a legal to grow location yes? If not I'd be thinking about what I'm doing to do to get rid of the smell in later flower. Depending on strain, opening a window may not do it and being in an apartment you could find yourself in a tough spot as every time you open the door the smell can creep into the hallway. If that's the case you can vent via a window fan but your just moving the smell outside for someone else with an open window to enjoy.

Tents are popular for this very reason, charcoal filters are a must in close quarters.
 
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