Will GH PH Down & Up kill off bennies in rhizosphere in DWC?

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Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

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I plan on running DWC with a live rhizoshpere full of bennies.

I was planning on using GH PH Down & Up.

But I recently saw a video of a guy saying that it will kill off all the bennies.

So this true?

If so, what are some natural PH alternatives for DWC?

I plan on using Silica Powder from kelp4less, I think this is a better way to adjust PH isn’t it?

I know the powder is much more PH neutral then something like GH Armor Si.

I also plan on using kelp4less’ enzyme powder, fulvic acid powder, kelp, amino acid powder and B Vitamin powder.

So I’m not sure if any of those also act as a better PH bu
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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If this is true, I have a problem, it's what I use.

This is the first I am hearing of this, I do not believe it is true. I have tested for BB using aquarium tests and I can watch the colony establish and go thru the whole nitrogen cycle while using PH down (primarily) the whole grow.
 
Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

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This is the video:


He says GH PH down contains something called “urea” I think?
He says that’s what kills off the bennies and that’s why he uses Nectar From The Gods PH down.

Which I know is an awesome product line, I just don’t know how thick their PH down is and whether it can be used in hydro or not.

I know the rest of the Nectar line cannot be used for the most part.
 
3 balls

3 balls

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I like Mad Farmer PH Down because it's not so concentrated which I think reduces the shock to the bennies but it's always a good idea to ph before adding more.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I call BS.

Down contains phosphoric acid, citric acid, and mono ammonium phosphate
Up contains potassium carbonate and potassium sillicate
 
3 balls

3 balls

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I call BS.

Down contains phosphoric acid, citric acid, and mono ammonium phosphate
Up contains potassium carbonate and potassium sillicate
I'm not a scientist but it doesn't sound like too much of a stretch that ingredients with acid in their title might be harmful to microbial life. 🤔
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I'm not a scientist but it doesn't sound like too much of a stretch that ingredients with acid in their title might be harmful to microbial life. 🤔
Not to be snarky, but you need to use acid and base to change PH. No matter what you put in there, that is the bottom line.

To say that phosphoric acid from one company is less damaging that that from another seems a stretch to me.

If every time you use a PH up or down product to change PH in a fish tank and it has to then recycle the whole tank, there would not be an aquarium industry.
 
3 balls

3 balls

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Not to be snarky, but you need to use acid and base to change PH. No matter what you put in there, that is the bottom line.

To say that phosphoric acid from one company is less damaging that that from another seems a stretch to me.

If every time you use a PH up or down product to change PH in a fish tank and it has to then recycle the whole tank, there would not be an aquarium industry.
Like I said it's important to adjust ph prior to adding beneficials, even allowing for the anticipated drift you might incur with something like recharge or the like.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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I like Mad Farmer PH Down because it's not so concentrated which I think reduces the shock to the bennies but it's always a good idea to ph before adding more.
Not so concentrated means you are paying for water weight.

Adding PH up or Down should be done diluted with grow water regardless of source. It will not effect BB colonies already in the system if added with even a tiny bit of care. You would have to try to kill off your BB in a RDWC adding small amounts of acid or base. They grow and attach to every surface under water. By the time the acid gets to them it is already dilute.
 
Aqua Man

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It won't kill your bennies... bennies are very sensitive to ph. It's not the acid or alkaline elements that hurts them its the PH they create and that's why we PH to begin with to create a good ph value for the plants and microbes.

Both should be diluted before adding but in all honesty these bennies repopulate very very quickly depending on temps, ph, salinity and food source they can double in population less 30 minutes depending on species and only have a life span of like 15 min to 40ish hours. They are constantly repopulating.

Here again is a case of an idiot making claims on a video without fully understanding the totality of it causing confusion and chaos. Wondering if he works at a hydro store.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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This is the video:


He says GH PH down contains something called “urea” I think?
He says that’s what kills off the bennies and that’s why he uses Nectar From The Gods PH down.

Which I know is an awesome product line, I just don’t know how thick their PH down is and whether it can be used in hydro or not.

I know the rest of the Nectar line cannot be used for the most part.
Urea feeds some bennies. It's basically pee or more commonly called ammonia/ammonium .

This guy is a fucking moron and should trade that hideous hat for a dunce cap. I can't fucking believe how much bad info in in that video.
 
Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

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Well I'm glad to hear others chime in to give clarity to this.

I will be doing DWC, so bennies will get replenished weekly during water changes.

I plan on using Great White.

I am also highly considering using Nectar From the Gods PH down as a more natural PH down.

It seems to be very clear & watery and should easily mix well in DWC and shouldn't be an issue. Unlike their PH Up, which is a much thicker white liquid.

But it's still good to know GH PH up & down won't kill off the bennies.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Well I'm glad to hear others chime in to give clarity to this.

I will be doing DWC, so bennies will get replenished weekly during water changes.

I plan on using Great White.

I am also highly considering using Nectar From the Gods PH down as a more natural PH down.

It seems to be very clear & watery and should easily mix well in DWC and shouldn't be an issue. Unlike their PH Up, which is a much thicker white liquid.

But it's still good to know GH PH up & down won't kill off the bennies.
Looking at the npk value they sure work hard to keep the acid used secret... but it looks to be phosphoric acid. I really hate these nutrient companies and thier BS marketing. That pretty much every company... not being bias against NOTG.

I actually just emailed them to ask as I'm 99% sure. Hopefully I don't get a proprietary blend answer.
 
Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

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Hmm interesting. I know NFTG is usually one of the better companies when it comes to quality, honesty & integrity.

However, that doesn't mean them using phosphoric acid is a bad thing.

I guess GH PH down isn't that much worse with citric acid and mono ammonium phosphate I guess? I know what citric acid is, mono not so familiar with.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Hmm interesting. I know NFTG is usually one of the better companies when it comes to quality, honesty & integrity.

However, that doesn't mean them using phosphoric acid is a bad thing.

I guess GH PH down isn't that much worse with citric acid and mono ammonium phosphate I guess? I know what citric acid is, mono not so familiar with.
Citric acid in hydro is an absolute no go... it reacts with bicarbonate to for carbonic acid and off gasses as co2 very quickly. Imo the only use for it is to ph adjust nutrients while mixing for soil grows.

Mono ammonium phosphate is just a salt based phosphorus and ammonium (nitrogen)

I think I may start a thread someday soon on how the organic industry is marketing BS using minimal truth to charge maximum prices.

I'm not by any means saying it's bad but it's not what it says it is and many do not understand the differences.

Plain and simple... plants do NOT take up nutrients in organic form... its just impossible.
 
LexLuthor

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It won't kill your bennies... bennies are very sensitive to ph. It's not the acid or alkaline elements that hurts them its the PH they create and that's why we PH to begin with to create a good ph value for the plants and microbes.

Both should be diluted before adding but in all honesty these bennies repopulate very very quickly depending on temps, ph, salinity and food source they can double in population less 30 minutes depending on species and only have a life span of like 15 min to 40ish hours. They are constantly repopulating.

Here again is a case of an idiot making claims on a video without fully understanding the totality of it causing confusion and chaos. Wondering if he works at a hydro store.


The worst advice I have ever gotten on cannabis cultivation is from hydro shop employees/owners.
 
Thegreywizard

Thegreywizard

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Citric acid in hydro is an absolute no go... it reacts with bicarbonate to for carbonic acid and off gasses as co2 very quickly. Imo the only use for it is to ph adjust nutrients while mixing for soil grows.

Mono ammonium phosphate is just a salt based phosphorus and ammonium (nitrogen)

I think I may start a thread someday soon on how the organic industry is marketing BS using minimal truth to charge maximum prices.

I'm not by any means saying it's bad but it's not what it says it is and many do not understand the differences.

Plain and simple... plants do NOT take up nutrients in organic form... its just impossible.
Hmm interesting.

So what is the preferred PH that doesn't contain citric acid and is safe/better to use for DWC?

Should I just go with the Nectar From the Gods PH down since it's probably just phosphoric acid as you've suggested?

What about PH up? I don't think NFTG PH up is a good option for DWC.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Hmm interesting.

So what is the preferred PH that doesn't contain citric acid and is safe/better to use for DWC?

Should I just go with the Nectar From the Gods PH down since it's probably just phosphoric acid as you've suggested?

What about PH up? I don't think NFTG PH up is a good option for DWC.
Sulfuric and phosphoric will give you the most stability if you have a proper buffer (alkalinity)

Ph up can be many things. Most common is potassium bicarbonate. Silicate, hydroxides and carbonates also work.
 
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