Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

IamN2pot · Mar 3, 2023

Anthem said:
I was under the impression that Micros where the Micro Nutrients required by plants for growth, these being Iron, Manganese, etc. These micros are in the Jacks Portion of the mix. J R Peters the mother company of Jacks actually sells a product called STEM this contains the micro nutrients required by the plant. I say the Jacks Portion because while they do sell calcium nitrate they opening state you are welcome to use just green house grade calcium nitrate.
So my basic question is what exactly is the micros you are referring to?

I don't want to answer for Aqua, so, the way I understood him when he said to mix the micro's first was to mix the nutes that had micro's listed and add the other epsom and cal/nit. Appearently he adds those last 2 ingrediants in the reverse order of the Jacks 321 mixing video, so there was some confusion there, but I'm GUESSING as long as one gets the "micro's" mixed first, you can add epsom and then the "B" cal/nit, like Jack's suggest OR add the cal/nit 2nd and the epsom last??? like Aqua said he does it.

Anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words, right. So I added the 2 blue bags and mixed because of the micros, marked. The B, yellow bag doesn't have anything but Cal and Nit, so it went in last, according the the Jacks mixing video and the epsom inbetween.
Hope the picture (and lines) help.

... @Aqua Man, if I got that wrong, correct me!!! and here is a link to the Jack's 321 mixing video we are refering.

https://video.wixstatic.com/video/3230c0_befe5f36d3364fb4871313234e79164e/1080p/mp4/file.mp4

Aqua Man · Mar 3, 2023

IamN2pot said:
I don't want to answer for Aqua, so, the way I understood him when he said to mix the micro's first was to mix the nutes that had micro's listed and add the other epsom and cal/nit. Appearently he adds those last 2 ingrediants in the reverse order of the Jacks 321 mixing video, so there was some confusion there, but I'm GUESSING as long as one gets the "micro's" mixed first, you can add epsom and then the "B" cal/nit, like Jack's suggest OR add the cal/nit 2nd and the epsom last??? like Aqua said he does it.

Anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words, right. So I added the 2 blue bags and mixed because of the micros, marked. The B, yellow bag doesn't have anything but Cal and Nit, so it went in last, according the the Jacks mixing video and the epsom inbetween.
Hope the picture (and lines) help.

... @Aqua Man, if I got that wrong, correct me!!! and here is a link to the Jack's 321 mixing video we are refering.

View attachment 1336719

Yea the one with micros first. I always add sulphate last but its proper to add it after micros i think.

Skunk_dog · Mar 3, 2023

Bud, you use one of the "A" Variants or the other based on stage of the plant...not both together. (unless I misinterpreted your statement). I've been mixing in this order for years - "E" mix until dissolved, "A" mix until cloudy becomes clear, "B" for 5-10 mins - "pH adj."
The reason for the staged mixing is for dilution...some of the salts in high concentration of one another will want to bind and precipitate out..try it in a small clear Solo and watch.

IamN2pot · Mar 5, 2023

This trainer is making me crazy, but then that's not to dificult. It had a nice growth spurt with the res change from when it was starving to the 321. She started looking sad about 4-5 days later and I had a pH spike up to 6.1 over 24 hours. I have no clue why, but got the pH backdown to 5.8 and changed the water to my own confusing formula of the Veg schedule + Epsom. It's been in that for 3 day without any noticable change, good or bad.
This morning I changed out the water again, but I only used the nutes in the Veggie/tomato schedule at there recomended rates. My temp is holding at 70*, pH is 5.8 and the EC is 2.7 and it was inoculated with a tripple dose of Orca, per the instructions.
If it doesn't make it, it's not from a lack of trying!!!! The seedling I planted have caught up and are passing the cutting. It wasn't supose to work that way, but that's why I have extra seeds sown!!! It's all good!!!

Skunk_dog · Mar 5, 2023

I hope it works for you...I too have tomatoes in my AerogardenXL...I use jacks but only at 1.2-1.4EC, one dose of tribus and a little Mr.Fulvic, I only check the rez when I initially set it and my top up nutes, and I don't change the Rez out ever, until its time to take some clones and chop down the plants (abt. 4-6months for rootball overrun)...also make sure you are not planting determinate varietals. Indeterminate only, if you know the difference you also probably know this and why.

IamN2pot · Mar 8, 2023

Teachers, is this a good way to start seedlings in DWC? Since I've never done this, will the constant drip on them be OK? or will it drown them? Or, is it better to raise the water level to the bottom of the netpots, hand water once or twice a day and let the bubbling keep them moist until the roots come through the hydrocorals?

Your browser is not able to display this video.

...and FYI, the trainer tomato has once again made an incredable comeback. I hope cannabis is as forgiving.

Aqua Man · Mar 8, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Teachers, is this a good way to start seedlings in DWC? Since I've never done this, will the constant drip on them be OK? or will it drown them? Or, is it better to raise the water level to the bottom of the netpots, hand water once or twice a day and let the bubbling keep them moist until the roots come through the hydrocorals?

View attachment 1338628

...and FYI, the trainer tomato has once again made an incredable comeback. I hope cannabis is as forgiving.

I usually wait until they are well rooted in the rapids but that should be ok

IamN2pot · Mar 12, 2023

I've got some more questions for experianced DWC growers, and one about KCL.
1. I'm adding about .25gr silica to raise/correct the pH every 1-2 days in the 6gal system. Is it 'normal' for the pH to always drift down during veg?
2. If I keep needing to add silica to raise the pH, over time will I overdose the plant with silica?
3. Is the white ring of foam around the roots at water level of any concern? It's not slipery or slimy, just foamy. See the picture.
4..and can KCL be rehydrated? The picture is of some Bluelab I used to rehydrate my pen and left open in the cup. It's crystalized, I think, from evaporation condensing it. Just curious if it can still be used? 'see the picture.
Thanks for your help and answers!!!

Aqua Man · Mar 12, 2023

1-2. Hard to overdose silicon… what brand are you using? PH usually drifts up. How well aerated is your bucket?

3. Ita no issue

4. yes it can be

Skunk_dog · Mar 12, 2023

yes as state above...

#4 distilled or RO water. no prob..
side note: I have a KClO generator for hypochlorous acid, I buy my KCL in 5lb bags of granules...its a Sodium / table salt substitute for those salt conscious folks too. So it is really no magic ju-ju-juice.

IamN2pot · Mar 12, 2023

Aqua Man said:
1-2. Hard to overdose silicon… what brand are you using? PH usually drifts up. How well aerated is your bucket?

I'm using Truenote Potassium Silicate. Moe recomended it.... I thought it was unusual to drift down.

Amazon.com : TrueNute Potassium Silicate in 16 Oz Packs, for Aquaponics, Hydroponics, Soil Drench and Foliar Spray to Correct Potassium and Silicate Deficiencies : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Amazon.com : TrueNute Potassium Silicate in 16 Oz Packs, for Aquaponics, Hydroponics, Soil Drench and Foliar Spray to Correct Potassium and Silicate Deficiencies : Patio, Lawn & Garden

www.amazon.com

As for aeration, it's on a Tetra 100 with the 2 big airstones.

Aqua Man · Mar 12, 2023

Skunk_dog said:
yes as state above...

#4 distilled or RO water. no prob..
side note: I have a KClO generator for hypochlorous acid, I buy my KCL in 5lb bags of granules...its a Sodium / table salt substitute for those salt conscious folks too. So it is really no magic ju-ju-juice.

100% agree good catch. Use distilled or RO to rehydrate

Aqua Man · Mar 12, 2023

IamN2pot said:
I'm using Truenote Potassium Silicate. Moe recomended it.... I thought it was unusual to drift down.

As for aeration, it's on a Tetra 100 with the 2 big airstones.

Those stones require about 10-15lpm each… whats that air pump rated for? I think thats not helping

IamN2pot · Mar 12, 2023

Aqua Man said:
Those stones require about 10-15lpm each… whats that air pump rated for? I think thats not helping

It's rated at 3.3 lpm and has the 2 ports. LOL, I have a large stone on each. I never knew you needed huge pumps for huge stones. I'm thinking the bigger the stone, the easier it is to blow air through it. Shows what I DON"T know! So do I need smalled air stones or a bigger air pump to aerate 6-7 gallons RDWC?

I'm running the same stones in the 4x RDWC (18-20gal), so that airpump needs at least 50 lpm for the 4 large stones. It's the 25 lpm that came with the Vivosun kit and I have another one ordered that's 40 lpm to replace it. I still have the 4, 2" round stones that came with the kit. How many LPH air pump and stone size for that pump, for a 20 gal RDWC? Is there some LPG per 10gal of DWC aeration minimum/ maximum standard?

Wait, I remember Moe said something about airpump size back on page 1. I just looked back there and he recomended this, a pump that has 2 small stones and pumps 3.5LPM, so all I need is smaller stones for the 6-7 gal and the bigger 18-20gal RDWC would need about 10LPM, ...if the ratio holds true? (and small stones)
Have I got that about right or am I still out in left field somwhere?????

Aqua Man · Mar 12, 2023

IamN2pot said:
It's rated at 3.3 lpm and has the 2 ports. LOL, I have a large stone on each. I never knew you needed huge pumps for huge stones. I'm thinking the bigger the stone, the easier it is to blow air through it. Shows what I DON"T know! So do I need smalled air stones or a bigger air pump to aerate 6-7 gallons RDWC?

I'm running the same stones in the 4x RDWC (18-20gal), so that airpump needs at least 50 lpm for the 4 large stones. It's the 25 lpm that came with the Vivosun kit and I have another one ordered that's 40 lpm to replace it. I still have the 4, 2" round stones that came with the kit. How many LPH air pump and stone size for that pump, for a 20 gal RDWC? Is there some LPG per 10gal of DWC aeration minimum/ maximum standard?

Wait, I remember Moe said something about airpump size back on page 1. I just looked back there and he recomended this, a pump that has 2 small stones and pumps 3.5LPM, so all I need is smaller stones for the 6-7 gal and the bigger 18-20gal RDWC would need about 10LPM, ...if the ratio holds true? (and small stones)
Have I got that about right or am I still out in left field somwhere?????

Yeah dont feel bad about that 99% of people say you need X LPM per gallon etc.

almost bovody knows or understands that you need to match the air pump to the airstones… its just like drippers or bubblers. You take the total gph of them and match that to a pump.

airstones are designed to work properly at a certain flow of air.
There now you know more than 99% of people using an airpump and airstones

IamN2pot · Mar 12, 2023

Out with the big, in with the little......

Aqua Man · Mar 12, 2023

IamN2pot said:
Out with the big, in with the little......
View attachment 1339955

Thats a better plan but id still upgrade. That a bit underpowered imo for good mixing and surface agitation

IamN2pot · Mar 12, 2023

Aqua Man said:
Thats a better plan but id still upgrade. That a bit underpowered imo for good mixing and surface agitation

So is the little one I ordered big enough or should I upsize it?
Here is what I have ordered, the 25w. Should I upsize it to the 40w pump?

Amazon.com : VIVOSUN Aquarium Air Pump, 25W Powerful Linear Fish Tank Air Pump, 0.028Mpa 40L/Min for Pond, Hydroponics, Fish Farm, Septic Systems and Waste Treatment : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com : VIVOSUN Aquarium Air Pump, 25W Powerful Linear Fish Tank Air Pump, 0.028Mpa 40L/Min for Pond, Hydroponics, Fish Farm, Septic Systems and Waste Treatment : Pet Supplies

www.amazon.com

Aqua Man · Mar 12, 2023

IamN2pot said:
So is the little one I ordered big enough or should I upsize it?
Here is what I have ordered, the 25w. Should I upsize it to the 40w pump?

Will do a out 3-4 of the big stones

IamN2pot · Mar 12, 2023

Aqua Man said:
Will do a out 3-4 of the big stones

Ordering the larger 40w. That does 85LPH, more than enough for 4 x 15LPH stones.
Thanks A-Man!!!

Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

IamN2pot

Aqua Man

Skunk_dog

IamN2pot

Skunk_dog

IamN2pot

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Amazon.com : TrueNute Potassium Silicate in 16 Oz Packs, for Aquaponics, Hydroponics, Soil Drench and Foliar Spray to Correct Potassium and Silicate Deficiencies : Patio, Lawn & Garden

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Amazon.com : VIVOSUN Aquarium Air Pump, 25W Powerful Linear Fish Tank Air Pump, 0.028Mpa 40L/Min for Pond, Hydroponics, Fish Farm, Septic Systems and Waste Treatment : Pet Supplies

Aqua Man

IamN2pot

Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

Wise and knowledgeable expert advise for DWC at altitude.

IamN2pot

Aqua Man

Skunk_dog

IamN2pot

Skunk_dog

IamN2pot

Attachments

Aqua Man

IamN2pot

Aqua Man

Skunk_dog

IamN2pot

Amazon.com : TrueNute Potassium Silicate in 16 Oz Packs, for Aquaponics, Hydroponics, Soil Drench and Foliar Spray to Correct Potassium and Silicate Deficiencies : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Attachments

Aqua Man

Aqua Man

IamN2pot

Aqua Man

IamN2pot

Aqua Man

IamN2pot

Amazon.com : VIVOSUN Aquarium Air Pump, 25W Powerful Linear Fish Tank Air Pump, 0.028Mpa 40L/Min for Pond, Hydroponics, Fish Farm, Septic Systems and Waste Treatment : Pet Supplies

Aqua Man

IamN2pot

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