Would adding biochar to coco make it better able to hold dry organic nutrients on there?

[the123321]

I want to run mainly only water in the autopot reservoir. I am trying to figure out a way to make coco coir work with organic dry nutrients like dr earth fertilizer that you mix in with the coco then top dress every few weeks. I have been told that coco would not work very well with dry amendments due to coco not holding the nutrients in very well. I do not want to add soil to the coco due to reading about people having problems with bugs in the peat. I have read that biochar helps retain nutrients. If I mix biochar in with the coco would that help it retain nutrients and help it work using the dry amendments in the coco on there?

 

[the123321]

Does anyone use biochar like I detailed it?

 

[Terpz719]

I think you're fighting an uphill battle. Typically coco is run like hyrdo and it sounds like you're wanting to run it like soil. I think you should pick one or the other styles. I've seen some threads here where folks are trying similar things. Maybe someone else with more experience will chime in. Until then you might search the forums. I know there is information here that's relevant to your situation.

 

[Beachwalker]

I think you're fighting an uphill battle. Typically coco is run like hyrdo and it sounds like you're wanting to run it like soil. I think you should pick one or the other styles. I've seen some threads here where folks are trying similar things. Maybe someone else with more experience will chime in. Until then you might search the forums. I know there is information here that's relevant to your situation.

^ this is exactly my impression from your other thread regarding using jobe's spikes in Coco. Also you can get bugs in Coco as well as soil

 

[Anthem]

I want to run mainly only water in the autopot reservoir. I am trying to figure out a way to make coco coir work with organic dry nutrients like dr earth fertilizer that you mix in with the coco then top dress every few weeks. I have been told that coco would not work very well with dry amendments due to coco not holding the nutrients in very well. I do not want to add soil to the coco due to reading about people having problems with bugs in the peat. I have read that biochar helps retain nutrients. If I mix biochar in with the coco would that help it retain nutrients and help it work using the dry amendments in the coco on there?

That is a really good idea. Did you reach out to Biochar and their technical assistance line to find anything out?

 

[THCMonster]

I want to run mainly only water in the autopot reservoir. I am trying to figure out a way to make coco coir work with organic dry nutrients like dr earth fertilizer that you mix in with the coco then top dress every few weeks. I have been told that coco would not work very well with dry amendments due to coco not holding the nutrients in very well. I do not want to add soil to the coco due to reading about people having problems with bugs in the peat. I have read that biochar helps retain nutrients. If I mix biochar in with the coco would that help it retain nutrients and help it work using the dry amendments in the coco on there?

If you add organic material to COCO then it will change the composition of COCO. It will compost over time and become something more like soil, your plants will grow just fine, but you wont be able to use the COCO like true COCO should be used.

You wont be able to water all the time or keeping the coco moist when run into serious problems eventually.

3 years ago i switched to Organics in COCO and i tried multiple ways to amend COCO, organic material will just screw you in the end, stay with the liquid organics.

You can still amend COCO with mineral base amendments though and it works great! I use them as time release Cal-Mag and PH buffers.

Minerals like:

Dolomite Lime
Sulfur
Rock Phosphate
Gypsum
Oyster Shell
Diatomaceous Earth

All these work really good in COCO because they dont breakdown like normal organic material, they mostly just leach out nutrients over time.

 

[Anthem]

If you add organic material to COCO then it will change the composition of COCO. It will compost over time and become something more like soil, your plants will grow just fine, but you wont be able to use the COCO like true COCO should be used.

You wont be able to water all the time or keeping the coco moist when run into serious problems eventually.

3 years ago i switched to Organics in COCO and i tried multiple ways to amend COCO, organic material will just screw you in the end, stay with the liquid organics.

You can still amend COCO with mineral base amendments though and it works great! I use them as time release Cal-Mag and PH buffers.

Minerals like:

Dolomite Lime
Sulfur
Rock Phosphate
Gypsum
Oyster Shell
Diatomaceous Earth

All these work really good in COCO because they dont breakdown like normal organic material, they mostly just leach out nutrients over time.

I would suggest following the information in this post, this guy knows what he is doing with substrates!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KanaGirl]

If you add organic material to COCO then it will change the composition of COCO. It will compost over time and become something more like soil, your plants will grow just fine, but you wont be able to use the COCO like true COCO should be used.

You wont be able to water all the time or keeping the coco moist when run into serious problems eventually.

3 years ago i switched to Organics in COCO and i tried multiple ways to amend COCO, organic material will just screw you in the end, stay with the liquid organics.

You can still amend COCO with mineral base amendments though and it works great! I use them as time release Cal-Mag and PH buffers.

Minerals like:

Dolomite Lime
Sulfur
Rock Phosphate
Gypsum
Oyster Shell
Diatomaceous Earth

All these work really good in COCO because they dont breakdown like normal organic material, they mostly just leach out nutrients over time.

Could you please share what organic liquid nutrients you are using with your coco grows? Thanks

 

[Grapefruitroop]

I am trying to figure out a way to make coco coir work with organic dry nutrients like dr earth fertilizer that you mix in with the coco then top dress every few weeks.

May i ask you why? cause you have coco or biochar layn around or what?
You could raise the CEC adding peat....
i had a similar idea but in my case was to improve oxygen in the mix reduce moisture and make them grow faster with more waterings..
I agree with what others said in this thread...but i just did (a month ago) a new soil mix with a new recipe...

I used to grow in soil 65% limed peat 10%ewc 25%perlite ammended once with organics and a second time feeding with raw salts but i was not happy about the rithm of growth....so i decided to add coco to the mix and i did a 30%coco 30%limedpeat 30%perlite and 10%ewc....no nutrients added exept for the lime pack and some in the ewc...im feeding raw salts and megacrop....the rate of growth has been impressive so far compared to the other two runs....
So based also on what other peeps said, maybe you could do the opposite and add coco to a soil mix to improve the oxygen retentions and reduce the water retention /nutrient retention (cec)
....anyway...good luck and good experimentations!

 

[Smoking Gun]

I want to run mainly only water in the autopot reservoir. I am trying to figure out a way to make coco coir work with organic dry nutrients like dr earth fertilizer that you mix in with the coco then top dress every few weeks. I have been told that coco would not work very well with dry amendments due to coco not holding the nutrients in very well. I do not want to add soil to the coco due to reading about people having problems with bugs in the peat. I have read that biochar helps retain nutrients. If I mix biochar in with the coco would that help it retain nutrients and help it work using the dry amendments in the coco on there?

The very obvious issue with what you are suggesting is that you are going to top dress with your nutrients and then water from the bottom. The organic inputs will never make their way into the medium if you are only watering from the bottom. I don't think you are too far off base with what you are thinking of doing, however you would need to set your system to water from the top to make it work.

But @THCMonster has a good point, the more organic material that finds its way into your coco the more soil-like your medium becomes. With that said mixing the bio-char into your coco will hold more organic molecules making them available later into your grow and it would also give beneficial microbes a safe place to harbor and be retained in the medium. But again, each of these benefits brings you closer to the environment being a soil environment.

 

[Kraken.headz]

The autopots are really your greatest limiting factor.
Like a poster above stated, feeding from the bottom will minimize the efficiency of top dressing, and the container size is likely too small to do a heavily amended mix that would feed all the way through.
If it were me, and I was really married to the idea of Autopots (which I'm really, really not), I'd use an amended coco mix (which I do) and a super clean mineral fertilizer, like canna substra (which I also do).

 

[KanaGirl]

I'm currently running an organic grow in coco (Canuck style) with dry amendments and a few additional top feed liquid amendments. Only have one other grow under my belt about 15 years ago DWC. I'm in a 3x5 tent using one Electric Sky 300 LED.

I'm using Dr. Earth dry amendments, and have had to supplement with Botanicare Cal/Mag due to some early magnesium deficiencies. Also supplemented with Botanicare Silica and Pure Blend Tea. I water from the top, so this will be a bit different from the grow you are thinking about.

I just flipped to flower 2 days ago, because I only have about 10 weeks before I am out of town for a month. The girls seem healthy and vigorous up to this point, but tops look a little light colored. Not sure if it's light bleaching or some type of deficiency. Lower leaves are darker green.

That top right corner plant is about 2 weeks behind the rest. I lost my first seedling and decided to go with just 5 plants, but then decided I wanted to scrog this grow, so popped a new seedling.

 

[THCMonster]

Could you please share what organic liquid nutrients you are using with your coco grows? Thanks

I actually ferment my own organic nutrients, but if you're looking for a true organic nutrient line ROOTS ORGANICS is a really great one. They are CDFA certified which is the highest certification of organics there is (at least here in the U.S.).

I used R.O. (Roots Organics) when i first switched to organics, their line is extremely easy to use, you have a Grow bottle and a Bloom bottle, then you have all their additives. If you were to use any one their additives i would highly recommend the TRINITY because it has the seaweed and sea kelp extract inside it, those are really great for root development and as a flower enhancer.

Also DOWN TO EARTH actually makes a Micro Nutrient product, that sucker will give you some lush beautiful dark green leaves! It will make ur plant look amazing.

 

[KanaGirl]

I actually ferment my own organic nutrients, but if you're looking for a true organic nutrient line ROOTS ORGANICS is a really great one. They are CDFA certified which is the highest certification of organics there is (at least here in the U.S.).

I used R.O. (Roots Organics) when i first switched to organics, their line is extremely easy to use, you have a Grow bottle and a Bloom bottle, then you have all their additives. If you were to use any one their additives i would highly recommend the TRINITY because it has the seaweed and sea kelp extract inside it, those are really great for root development and as a flower enhancer.

Also DOWN TO EARTH actually makes a Micro Nutrient product, that sucker will give you some lush beautiful dark green leaves! It will make ur plant look amazing.

Thank you so much for that info - greatly appreciated!!

 

[the123321]

Thanks for the information. I think I have figured out the way around the top dressing by putting a layer of perlite on the top of the pot which I have read helps keep the top moist in the autopots. I am now thinking of trying a mix of two different types of dry amendments.

I am thinking of doing 1/2 dose of the dr earth 4-6-3 and 3-9-4 dry fertilizer mixed at like 70% 30% with 1 of the jobes 4-4-4 fertilizer stakes which is 1/2 dose mixed into the coco with perlite when I put the seed in then in like 4 weeks when it is ready for flowering top dress with 1/2 dose of the 50% 50% of the dr earth dry fertilizer with 1 of the jobes 2-7-4 flowering stakes which is a 1/2 dose of that. Then do 30% 70% of the dry fertilizer top dress in like 4 more weeks in it.

 

[the123321]

I'm currently running an organic grow in coco

Thanks. I am glad to hear that someone is doing something like what I am trying to figure out here. Would you mind telling me which dr earth you are using and what ratio you mix it with? When do you add more in with top dressings and what do you add when you do it? I plan to add the calmag with silicon into the water in the reservoir on there.

 

[KanaGirl]

Thanks. I am glad to hear that someone is doing something like what I am trying to figure out here. Would you mind telling me which dr earth you are using and what ratio you mix it with? When do you add more in with top dressings and what do you add when you do it? I plan to add the calmag with silicon into the water in the reservoir on there.

I'm in 95% coco with about 5% perlite. I'm using the Dr. Earth Premium Gold 4-4-4 and Dr. Earth Flower Girl 3-9-4. My original substrate I amended before transplant with recommended dosage. At 4 weeks I top dressed with 75/25, at 8 weeks (just before my flip), I top dressed with 50/50. When I top dress, I just scratch it in the top and then water with ph'd water switching up adding silica, cal/mag, and tea with each watering (so my plants only get a dose of each once per week approximately). I only water every other day, as I wait until the pots are fairly light before watering. I only water until medium is fully saturated, with little to no runoff.

Now that they are in flower, I will probably start tapering off silica, and do more of the Pure Blend Tea and add molasses. I will still be adding cal/mag at least once a week. I do notice that after the watering with PBT, the plants look really perked up, and I hope that adding the molasses will help with cal/mag.

I think overall the plants have been very healthy with this style grow; however, I am just starting 12/12 cycle this week, so I'll be carefully watching their progress to see if they are getting all they need to finish strong.

One thing I did notice with this grow compared to my DWC is that the size of the main stem is much smaller than DWC. My thought process in trying this method is that I wanted to go as organic as possible, and also that it would be easier to maintain by just adding the nutrients to the coco and watering.

However, the people doing the coco/hydro grows seem to be more in line with the rapid growth and large main stem you see in a DWC setup. I am curious to try using a full hydro style method with coco on my next run with high frequency fertigation with organic liquid nutes to compare it with the dry amendments (soil type grow).

There is also the possibility that my coco just doesn't yet have a good enough microbiology to support the plants as well. I've read that 2nd/3rd runs using the old coco just gets better and better - more like a living soil.

Here's my girls this morning - no watering today, but will water with the PBT and molasses starting tomorrow - wish me luck :)

 

[THCMonster]

I'm in 95% coco with about 5% perlite. I'm using the Dr. Earth Premium Gold 4-4-4 and Dr. Earth Flower Girl 3-9-4. My original substrate I amended before transplant with recommended dosage. At 4 weeks I top dressed with 75/25, at 8 weeks (just before my flip), I top dressed with 50/50. When I top dress, I just scratch it in the top and then water with ph'd water switching up adding silica, cal/mag, and tea with each watering (so my plants only get a dose of each once per week approximately). I only water every other day, as I wait until the pots are fairly light before watering. I only water until medium is fully saturated, with little to no runoff.

Now that they are in flower, I will probably start tapering off silica, and do more of the Pure Blend Tea and add molasses. I will still be adding cal/mag at least once a week. I do notice that after the watering with PBT, the plants look really perked up, and I hope that adding the molasses will help with cal/mag.

I think overall the plants have been very healthy with this style grow; however, I am just starting 12/12 cycle this week, so I'll be carefully watching their progress to see if they are getting all they need to finish strong.

One thing I did notice with this grow compared to my DWC is that the size of the main stem is much smaller than DWC. My thought process in trying this method is that I wanted to go as organic as possible, and also that it would be easier to maintain by just adding the nutrients to the coco and watering.

However, the people doing the coco/hydro grows seem to be more in line with the rapid growth and large main stem you see in a DWC setup. I am curious to try using a full hydro style method with coco on my next run with high frequency fertigation with organic liquid nutes to compare it with the dry amendments (soil type grow).

There is also the possibility that my coco just doesn't yet have a good enough microbiology to support the plants as well. I've read that 2nd/3rd runs using the old coco just gets better and better - more like a living soil.

Here's my girls this morning - no watering today, but will water with the PBT and molasses starting tomorrow - wish me luck :)View attachment 955350View attachment 955351

I personal would continue the silica if I were you. Silica is one of the few products that actually adds density to your bud. Because silica strengthens the cell walls of your plants that means when you are forming bud it is strengthening the cell walls of those as well! If you are using a Potassium Silicate product it takes time to absorb into your plant, I would recommend for future grows try a Silicic Acid product.

Silicic Acid is highly available to the plant and will absorb more readily.

You have two forms Orthosilicic Acid (OSA 28) and Monosilicic Acid (Power Si, Fasilitor, MSA Stout).

 

[KanaGirl]

I personal would continue the silica if I were you. Silica is one of the few products that actually adds density to your bud. Because silica strengthens the cell walls of your plants that means when you are forming bud it is strengthening the cell walls of those as well! If you are using a Potassium Silicate product it takes time to absorb into your plant, I would recommend for future grows try a Silicic Acid product.

Silicic Acid is highly available to the plant and will absorb more readily.

You have two forms Orthosilicic Acid (OSA 28) and Monosilicic Acid (Power Si, Fasilitor, MSA Stout).

I'm using Silica Blast by Botanicare - I'll have to go take a look at the bottle.

Thank you for your advice - since this is my first grow in coco, I can use all the help I can get! I will continue to use the silica throughout the grow.

What are your thoughts about adding molasses to the Pure Blend Tea. I know it's not like brewing my own teas, but it's convenient for me.

Also, do you think the plants look like they need anything? The tops of the plants have a lighter green color than lower growth - I'm not sure if it's light bleaching or some deficiency?? Do you think I should be using cal/mag with every watering - or should I just continue with the once per week (currently using about 3ml/gal).

Thanks for all your help - I really do appreciate it

 

[KanaGirl]

I personal would continue the silica if I were you. Silica is one of the few products that actually adds density to your bud. Because silica strengthens the cell walls of your plants that means when you are forming bud it is strengthening the cell walls of those as well! If you are using a Potassium Silicate product it takes time to absorb into your plant, I would recommend for future grows try a Silicic Acid product.

Silicic Acid is highly available to the plant and will absorb more readily.

You have two forms Orthosilicic Acid (OSA 28) and Monosilicic Acid (Power Si, Fasilitor, MSA Stout).

Just looked, and it is indeed derived from Potassium Silicate

Do you recommend feeding Silica; Cal/Mag; Tea for EACH watering while I'm in flower? Based on the slower growth, and only needing water every other day, I'm thinking that my microbiology is just not as robust as it should be. And maybe the reason the plants perk up so much after the teas is that they aren't getting enough of the nutrients from the slow release dry amendments as they should be. Thoughts??