Zohydro ER

[Smoking Gun]

Has anyone heard about this new drug that may be hitting the market soon? It is basically hydrocodone without the addition of acetaminophen, so a more pure version of the drug. Now does no one see this as a huge problem and pure hypocrisy? The FDA has technically voted against the approval of this drug, yet both the FDA and the drugs manufacturer are both gearing up for it to hit the market.

With addiction to prescription medications already a rampant problem in many areas how can the FDA and the drugs manufacturer release such a danger to the public? It just seems like drug dealers pushing the next cool drug.

While I often feel as though our federal government over extends it power this is one time it needs to step in and stop that manufacture of this drug. I can honestly see no positive side to the manufacture of this drug. Hydrocodone is already addictive enough as is and now they want to make it stronger, isn't this what the street drug pushers do to get more people hooked on their drugs? So is our government just one big drug dealer looking to get its population hooked on drugs that will make them totally helpless? If this drug is released I can only imagine the answer is a simple 'yes'. I feel as though this is just proof that our government can simply be bought off. No person or entity that truly has the well-being of people in mind would allow this new danger to hit the market. So I guess our government is simply for sale. So why not get all of the growers together to buy our piece of the government?

We are about to have what is tantamount to legalized heroin hitting our streets and our government is still going to come after marijuana growers? Talk about hypocrisy. Honestly the whole situation makes me sick.

What makes me laugh is the new attempt of the drug companies to make a "tamper-resistant" version of their drugs. The tamper-resistance is supposed to make it much harder for people to crush or dissolve the pills to snort or ingest for a quicker and stronger effect. So now instead of people crushing up one pill to snort they will just swallow three or four pills to get the same effect. Sounds like just another ploy of the drug companies to get people hooked and buying more of their drugs. FUCKING SCUMBAG DRUG DEALERS!!!!!

Free the weed and watch society correct itself.

 

[tattoojim]

yeah brother my mom had a 2000$ a week OC addiction, before she killed herself....id like to stomp a mud hole in the persons ass that turned my mom on to OC, but the dumb bitch is dead too...she fucking od'd a few months after my mom killed hrself..
tryd tryd and tryd again to get my mom on mmj...she would say but its not legal, and go crush up a OC or 2 to get the day started

 

[Smoking Gun]

Sorry to hear about that Jim, you have my deepest sympathies. But that is exactly my point. Its the same fucks who yell and scream about how dangerous cannabis is but then go and make pharmaceutical drugs that kill thousands of people.

 

[soserthc1]

yeah brother my mom had a 2000$ a week OC addiction, before she killed herself....id like to stomp a mud hole in the persons ass that turned my mom on to OC, but the dumb bitch is dead too...she fucking od'd a few months after my mom killed hrself..
tryd tryd and tryd again to get my mom on mmj...she would say but its not legal, and go crush up a OC or 2 to get the day started

Sorry to hear that TJ .... been there and know the difficulties of quitting and mmj won't work until they detox , most people wanna quit its the fear of withdraw that holds them back and suboxone works wonders for it , but then you must ween yourself is nothing like snorting oc 's ........peace SoSer

 

[putembk]

My mother did the same thing. She was going to different doctors and they all loaded her up with any meds she wanted. My step dad was oblivious to what she was doing. Finally at 72 her heart stopped in the middle of the night. Know a lot of doctors that should have some explaining to do. Today all are still out there writing prescriptions. That is exactly why the only meds I take are what I grow.

 

[soserthc1]

Has anyone heard about this new drug that may be hitting the market soon? It is basically hydrocodone without the addition of acetaminophen, so a more pure version of the drug. Now does no one see this as a huge problem and pure hypocrisy? The FDA has technically voted against the approval of this drug, yet both the FDA and the drugs manufacturer are both gearing up for it to hit the market.

With addiction to prescription medications already a rampant problem in many areas how can the FDA and the drugs manufacturer release such a danger to the public? It just seems like drug dealers pushing the next cool drug.

While I often feel as though our federal government over extends it power this is one time it needs to step in and stop that manufacture of this drug. I can honestly see no positive side to the manufacture of this drug. Hydrocodone is already addictive enough as is and now they want to make it stronger, isn't this what the street drug pushers do to get more people hooked on their drugs? So is our government just one big drug dealer looking to get its population hooked on drugs that will make them totally helpless? If this drug is released I can only imagine the answer is a simple 'yes'. I feel as though this is just proof that our government can simply be bought off. No person or entity that truly has the well-being of people in mind would allow this new danger to hit the market. So I guess our government is simply for sale. So why not get all of the growers together to buy our piece of the government?

We are about to have what is tantamount to legalized heroin hitting our streets and our government is still going to come after marijuana growers? Talk about hypocrisy. Honestly the whole situation makes me sick.

What makes me laugh is the new attempt of the drug companies to make a "tamper-resistant" version of their drugs. The tamper-resistance is supposed to make it much harder for people to crush or dissolve the pills to snort or ingest for a quicker and stronger effect. So now instead of people crushing up one pill to snort they will just swallow three or four pills to get the same effect. Sounds like just another ploy of the drug companies to get people hooked and buying more of their drugs. FUCKING SCUMBAG DRUG DEALERS!!!!!

Free the weed and watch society correct itself.

Actually this would be nothing new as there is all ready roxicotin in 15 & 30 mg which are percocet without aceteminophen and what you are describing is hydrocotine aka vicodan so it would be nothing really new and when they made oxycotin 80mg -60mg -40mg tamper proof it made it impossible to snort and demand went from 60 a pill till really no demand as the people that want them tamper free want to snort them and once they start snorting they don't switch back to eating more , they all switched to roxi's which can still be crushed and snorted as eating and snorting are to different highs , there is no demand for oc 's now that they are tamper prof and if there is it dropped the price in half , now the sad thing about it is it only increased the people that were snorting oc's to start to look for heroin..... but either way big money talks and this is the way are gov't operated...... sad but true ....I personally know of three doctors that do not take insurance , charge 120-150 a visit give you therapy - if you wanna call it that and send you on your way with 120 - 30mg roxicotin & 120 ten mg percocet ...thank god I have been opiate free for 4 years .....and for those doing the math thats 3k for the 30's and 1200 for the ten's ......... and legal and operating for years now and its not Florida I have seen insanity down there.... 5 pain clinics on every block

 

[squiggly]

Some folks actually need this stuff to be honest.

I don't have a problem with the drug--I have a problem with the doctors who prescribe it to folks who don't need it, the "pain management" centers that profiteer on drug addicts, and the overall lack of responsibility taken by the medical field at large for this kind of stuff.

I'm all for hating on big pharma, believe me, but in this case I think the issue is a human error on an individual level--not a corporate or federal one.

Individual people do bad things that put these drugs in the wrong hands, those people should be held responsible.


As far as oxycontin goes, I DO think the world would be a better place if hadn't ever been created--but that's, again, only because people chose to abuse it an allow it to be abused (and it was prescribed for stupid reasons like mild back pain).

This is a drug that was an absolute god send for many pain patients, cancer patients, and the like. Those people deserve the comfort it brought them, especially those people who used it during hospice (which is mostly what it was intended for).

We really need to point the finger where it belongs on this one, imo.

 

[tattoojim]

man you better ban me rite now squiggs...:mad:...FUCK man are you serious...i know people who have/had cancer, and still snort them motherfuckers the same way ... FUCK THAT DUMB ASS SHIT

 

[tattoojim]

to many factors to point the finger one way....;) how about we start with patients who sell there meds for the cash....i hurt but id reather sell my pills to a junkie that might turn your lil bro on to a blast...thats just a start..im sure any one here can add to the list of people to point the finger at....peace and enjoy your jelly bellys..dros...or whatever you call them

 

[squiggly]

man you better ban me rite now squiggs...:mad:...FUCK man are you serious...i know people who have/had cancer, and still snort them motherfuckers the same way ... FUCK THAT DUMB ASS SHIT

It's a hard thing because the drug has affected different people in different ways.

I've lost friends to it, and nearly lost myself to it as a young man--so I'm not blind to the horrors of opiates. Believe that.

At the same time there are some people who can't live life without them--and they shouldn't have to trade their liver as the price of admission. That is what this drug is about.

It the pain clinics, the shitty doctors, the illegal pushers, and even the addicts (sorry to say) who take something that can benefit mankind and turn it into a horror. As much as that might hurt to hear (because your mom was an addict) I'd be quick to point out that the person who got her hooked was also an addict. That is often the case.

You have correctly placed your hatred on that person. It sucks because what that means is that this problem is even harder to solve, because it needs to be solved on an individual scale. We can't solve it by scapegoating corporate entities.

While oxycodone and hydrocodone are terrible, if it wasn't these drugs it'd be heroin or crack or cocaine taking our loved ones away. Some people might even claim weed has done as much to theirs.

So its important to look at this for what it is. A human problem, not a corporate one.

 

[Smoking Gun]

Squiggly, I get where you are coming from when you state "Some people might even claim weed has done as much to theirs", but there is not one documented case of a Cannabis overdose causing a death. So while someone might say just that it really is bullshit. This is not to say that there are not people who overuse and abuse Cannabis, but the "drug" will not actually deprive us of loved ones. To me this actually makes a very large difference when comparing the two.

I also understand that there are people who need these opiates to make it through a day. But are opiates really an answer? Why not put the same money and effort to make these opiate drugs into Cannabis research and refining? The more research that is done the more we are discovering how effective cannabinoids can be to treat many ailments. So why then continue to create and push addictive and dangerous drugs? We know there are other alternatives out there yet our western view of medicine has forced us into the idea that a pill will make us better or help us not to feel as bad as we do.

I do feel this is a responsibility that falls on pharmaceutical companies and our government. You are also quite right in the sentiment that these "pain doctors" are just as responsible for getting these drugs into peoples hands. But if the doctors do not have the option to prescribe such drugs then people will not have the option to get hooked on them. And if the issue is stopping the trade and addiction of opiates then should we not go after the head of the beast; the pharmaceutical companies?

Let us take a step back for a moment and review a bit of history. Both cocaine and heroin were introduced to the public as medicines, yet today we consider them little more than dangerous drugs with little medical benefit. So why do we feel yet another extremely potent opiate based drug will not follow the same path? And I do not agree that these are the drugs people will turn to if they cannot get their oxy. While oxycodone can be procured on the streets many of its addicts are getting their pills from their doctors. Those that are getting their pills from their doctor will not turn to street drugs all of a sudden, they will go back to their doctor and ask for another set of pills.

There is also the interesting fact that our government has ruled that corporations are individuals. This was really done so big corporations could donate out the ass to a candidates campaign; in other words buy them off. Well, why should that street not go two ways? If a corporation is an individual why should we not prosecute them as individuals? And there are usually a small group of people at the top who make the decisions to create and release these drugs, so they are the humans in this case who need to claim some responsibility.

All in all the production of this drug simply seems to have far more down side than upside. In my opinion that makes the production and distribution of this drug irresponsible. The only real benefit I can discern is that this drug will make a small group of people just a bit richer. On the other side of things, if people really do need a drug this strong where does the strengthening of opiates end, back at heroin?

 

[Seamaiden]

I think it's a good thing, as I have had to be on those painkillers and often my dosage has had to be limited specifically because of the acetaminophen. As far as abuse, I also think we humans are geared to use drugs. Education and other pain management tools should be used, IMO, over trying to drop the hammer on various people.

I'm going to use my experience again as another example of why we need various opiates, because some of them make me sick as a dog, while others don't. And when I'm feeling the degree of pain I was feeling, I am NOT giving up my painkillers, plain and simple, I'm thankful for living in a time when they're available.

 

[paulycali]

I heard about this a few years back. I shook my head in disappointment. 10x stronger than vocoden. Wow! More like 10x stronger than an oxycontin. They just say vicoden because it's a less abused drugs than oxy's. Fucked up if you ask me as it's just another drug people will die over. Get ready for the mayhem everyone. Lock up your kids and of course your medicine cabinet. Late night pharmacy stops may be out of the question once this drug is released. Watch out for masked bandits. Shit's about to get real. Sad to say but true

 

[Smoking Gun]

Sea, well I am glad this medication may actually be able to help some people. I still fear its potential for abuse though.

Soser, please explain how the tamper-resistant pills work? Is it some kind of super hard coating? I am very much confused on this part of the issue. If the pills cannot be chopped up or diluted how do they work when ingested?

 

[squiggly]

Squiggly, I get where you are coming from when you state "Some people might even claim weed has done as much to theirs", but there is not one documented case of a Cannabis overdose causing a death. So while someone might say just that it really is bullshit. This is not to say that there are not people who overuse and abuse Cannabis, but the "drug" will not actually deprive us of loved ones. To me this actually makes a very large difference when comparing the two.

I had to reply to this before I left, mainly because the lack of knowledge that I had actually might've cost me pretty dearly in this respect.

Don't kid yourselves. Cannabis is not completely innocuous. Here are the facts:

1. Smoking marijuana causes marked tachycardia for up to 2 hours post ingestion. In someone with a weak heart this can cause myocardial infarction (heart attack), aortic problems, can cause aneurysms to burst, and blood clots to break free (possibly causing stroke). Pulmonary embolisms and stroke just for the sake of stroke are also possible.

2. Cessation of smoking marijuana after heavy periods of use can cause significant increases in blood pressure. This has been confirmed by multiple studies. The mean difference being about 22mmHg for systolic pressures and 15mmHg for diastolic pressures. Those are HUGE numbers, and that's the average change. Some patients saw changes as high as 50mmHg. That can be life threatening. Especially for someone who already is hypertensive.

3. Likewise, using marijuana can cause an increase in supine blood pressure, whereas it is a risk factor for orthostatic syncope and postural hypotension.

All of what I've said is peer-reviewed, 100% accepted, medical fact. While it is not possible to rule someone's death a result of an "overdose" of cannabinoids (because acute toxicity in the classical sense is not possible with these compounds) do not kid yourself into believing that no one has ever died from smoking marijuana.

That's just false. I'm sorry to inform you, but that is the truth. The death will have been ruled to have resulted from a cardiac event--but you can bet the farm MJ has caused people to die before when they would've lived had they never touched the stuff. It's a different type of danger than what is associated with other types of "drug overdose" but this is not sugar, spice, and everything nice.

Cannabinoids affect the cardiovascular system and that is a foregone conclusion. This is an extremely sensitive bodily system. Fucking with it can and will kill people.

There are even more and more reports coming in recently of people experiencing extreme tachycardia and suffering MI after ingesting MJ (even very young men). There is plenty of research on this and I encourage all of you to look into it further.

This is certainly more likely to happen to someone who is predisposed to cardiac events--but most people who are so predisposed don't know it, and so this represents a significant risk. As the potency of the plant has now all but peaked, the risks are much greater these days than they were in the past--and that's why we're seeing more and more research.

Furthermore depending on the compounds present (every strain is different) these cardiovascular events may be potentiated even further.

So while you are correct, and there are no documented cases of death connected with cannabis toxicity--and there likely never will be--it is assured that people have died because they smoked pot before, and that more people will die in the future from it.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but these are facts and not guesses. This is a fairly well studied subject and more is being learned all the time.

In fact, the effects of cannabinoids are so potent on some cardiovascular elements that some medicines are being developed based on them to help control blood pressure and other things of that nature--this is a very good thing because historically side effects from medicines for these types of disorders are extremely potent and debilitating, this represents a measure of hope for yours truly that I wont be a zombie for the rest of my life if they do end up needing to drug me up.

I'm not saying anyone should quit, ever. In fact some of the worst effects of cannabis can come from trying to quit it--I'm just saying that people should make themselves aware of what's REALLY going on in their bodies when they ingest substances. The information is at your fingertips, don't operate in the dark under an assumption which is in all likelihood patently untrue.

<3 you guys!! Had to get in one last "long post" for old times sake (no seriously I just think this is really important and was worth discussing before I check out)

 

[Smoking Gun]

Squiggly, I would never try to argue with fact and I greatly appreciate you bringing these particular facts to light, and sometimes the truth hurts. I am sure more people than just myself were not aware of much of that post. There are many points in there I must do more research into.

If you can figure how to write that shortly please teach me; that was as concise as it could have been.

 

[Seamaiden]

I cannot reconcile the concepts behind full legalization of drugs (i.e. ending the drug war) with trying to drop the hammer on a company for developing a more potent painkiller. Do you guys see the dichotomy in your reasoning here? Are we not talking about adults who should be able to make their own choices, including whether or not they're going to use a drug that may cause addiction?

Squiggly, I want to know what the comorbidities of these people are, including a previous history of hypertension. A young man experiencing tachycardia and MI is becoming more and more common, but it's not due to increased cannabis use, it's due to being morbidly obese, practicing a completely sedentary lifestyle, and what I will only describe as a horrid diet. You are an exception with regard to the obesity, but the diet...? Not so much. You have mentioned being a gamer, IIRC, which again indicates life being lived on a sofa.

 

[squiggly]

Squiggly, I want to know what the comorbidities of these people are, including a previous history of hypertension. A young man experiencing tachycardia and MI is becoming more and more common, but it's not due to increased cannabis use, it's due to being morbidly obese, practicing a completely sedentary lifestyle, and what I will only describe as a horrid diet. You are an exception with regard to the obesity, but the diet...? Not so much. You have mentioned being a gamer, IIRC, which again indicates life being lived on a sofa.

This thread makes me glad that people keep dropping stuff to my inbox (read:phone) that will keep drawing me back for at least the next few days I'm guessing, in snippets of course--because this stuff is really important.

I have seen a few reports of active guys having dangerously high tach from smoking, but I haven't seen any where MI is reported--you're on the money there. At the same time not everyone is healthy, as you allude, and I assume that stretches to people on this board--so I felt it worth mentioning in case people might fall into some of these categories.

I am, or should say was, a gamer (the excitement is now too much)--but I also was an active person. Just to get home I have to climb 3 flights of stairs, and I'm in and out of the house all day :P

I was pretty careful to break up my sitting time, I know the dangers this can bring along with it--and we've all heard these in recent years. I felt this important because ultimately the life I'm heading for (hopefully) is one in the lab where I do A LOT of sitting. Breaking up that sitting time is going to be important to maintaining my health into the future.

I have been sedentary since this affliction struck me, but not before. I participated in an indoor soccer league, signed up for PE classes each year at school, and had gyms at each of my apartment complexes until my most recent move (when I purchased a total gym).

I've been a pretty in shape guy my whole life, which is part of what makes this suck so much--because not being able to move around and such I REALLY REALLY feel the difference and it scares the crap out of me.

What I meant to say is that people going to the ER with complaints post ingestion of MJ is becoming more and more routine for hospitals. I image this certainly does have something to do with obesity at least in this country--but these reports aren't isolated to our country unfortunately.

Now don't catch me scapegoating MJ, I think we all know how I feel about MJ (love it). So far as I can tell if a person has been smoking a long time they're actually much better off staying on the stuff as there is some indication that it controls hypertension.

However, I do think the ubiquitous results of cessation are something that people need to know about. Those are big big big numbers for BP increase and as such I think a long time smoker should quit only under the care of a physician. This is advice I wish I'd known to follow, and that was my main reason for sharing.

Other than that, I agree with most of what you said--and in any case the reports and such are too preliminary to really peg anything. It's just something to keep an eye on.

Peace!

 

[Smoking Gun]

I cannot reconcile the concepts behind full legalization of drugs (i.e. ending the drug war) with trying to drop the hammer on a company for developing a more potent painkiller. Do you guys see the dichotomy in your reasoning here? Are we not talking about adults who should be able to make their own choices, including whether or not they're going to use a drug that may cause addiction?

Sea, I absolutely see where you are coming from but have to respectfully disagree. I do not equate Cannabis (cannabinoids) and pharmaceuticals at all. While ultimately they are both causing a series of chemical reactions within our body to perform specific tasks, one is a highly refined and worked product whereas the other is a wholly naturally occurring plant and chemicals which require little to no refinement to be effective. I will not even use acetaminophen or aspirin as I feel they are just too far refined by people and damaging to the body. For me this does extend into Cannabis use, I will use hash that was dry sieved or water extracted, but I do make a concerted effort to avoid Cannabis based products made with alcohol, butane, or other refining chemicals. It is the residuals of these chemicals that I fear will have negative side effects on my body. This is no different when talking about highly refined pharmaceuticals created in a lab.

I think there is also a significant difference in philosophies between pharmaceutical companies and medical cannabis producers. Over the last decade or so I have seen a litany of drugs released by pharmaceutical companies and approved by the FDA that are as dangerous and deadly as the worst street drugs. To me this does imply the pharmaceutical companies are significantly more concerned with making money than with healing and aiding sick people (this sentiment does not extend to all of the individual scientists and other people working on the drugs, as many of them truly are trying to make peoples lives better). I do not condone the use of hard street drugs and I feel these pharmaceuticals are just a damaging to people and society. So ultimately I fell the higher ups of these companies are the equivalent of street drug dealers who are actively trying get you hooked on a drug to make more money. Lets be honest there is not much money in healing people, but there is lots of money in getting people to believe that a pill will make them better if they take it for the rest of their life (no matter how short that time may be).

Let us examine the pharmaceuticals side effects for a moment. Most people on pharmaceuticals are not on one pill but several. More often than not this is because the pill that helps a patients ailments has significant side effects that requires another pill to control them. I have seen this first hand with several family members and it saddens me deeply. The side effect (for most people) of Cannabis are rather benign and do not need to be controlled with another drug. In fact I have witnessed time and time again people dropping significant amounts of pharmaceutical drugs once the begin to use Cannabis. This is exactly why the pharmaceutical industry is one of the biggest contributors to the war on drugs, particularly Cannabis. They stand to loose billions of dollars if Cannabis is made medically legal.

I am not absolving all Cannabis growers and sellers from these moral pitfalls, that would be plain foolish; there are all too many people in the business to make a buck. However I have found in my experience that there is a significant part of the medical Cannabis community, at all levels, who are truly compassionate and care about the well-being of the people using medical Cannabis. But this does not extend to all street drugs. I hate cocaine and other hard drugs, and I have no sympathy for their producers or dealers.

It is not the individual I am against, it is the current institution of pharmaceuticals that I am against. I would never tell a person what they can and cannot do. But I do have a problem when the morals of our society erode from the top down, when the government will so willingly allow a dangerous drug to hit the market then turn around and cut down thousands of plants that can truly help sick people. I do not believe the government has the right to tell an individual what they can and cannot ingest, but I do feel it is their responsibility to keep large and powerful companies from actively and knowingly harming people and society at large. Just look at the usage rates of pharmaceuticals, they are at an all time high yet our society is at an all time low on health. Great we are living longer, but that really means we are just living unhealthy lives longer. I could go on like this forever, but I feel I made my point.

 

[Seamaiden]

SG, I feel you're confusing the issue with specifics here. For me it's very simple--is an adult in their right mind allowed/able to make their own choices about what they do with or to their body, or not?

I say yes. Once we're there, the onus is upon them to use whatever they use as wisely as possible, while creating NO VICTIMS. Once that line is crossed (your freedom ends where mine begins), then that person should not be allowed to do/use as they choose. Otherwise..? I must land on the side of acceptance and allowance, or else everything that I stand for and have acted for means nothing.