First Time Indoor Cfl, Am I Getting Impatient?

[johnnyrotten]

Flat white will be cooler...personally, I'd get an LED...I had a small LED cab grow once where the temp in the box was lower than room temp...are you exhausting your air? using a carbon scrubber? if your glasses are fogging then your humidity is too high...

 

[jncoking]

Extremely low budget first run, plywood cabinet line with emergency blankets. Standard box fan for circulation. No scrubbers or anything. Cabinet is in outbuilding temp this year 85-97 outside, building is enclosed without any method of cooling. The building always matches the outside temp, I didn't see the 100-120deg range until I added the emergency blankets for reflectivity

 

[johnnyrotten]

paint the walls flat white and seal all of your light leaks...if you're not in a legal state then you will need a scrubber if you have neighbors...connect the scrubber to the exhaust fan make sure you have some light sealed intakes..can you add a small a/c in the wall?

 

[jncoking]

Yea not so friendly state. I go ahead and get some paint. I was thinking about trying a small window ac if you think that will be ok.

I was hoping to flip a bit to do a descent setup. 600w hps, legit grow tent and the little ac. Just enough to keep myself medicated

 

[johnnyrotten]

Here is the thing about the ac, you need to get one that has a setting to recirculates the air in the room this will keep it from venting your unfiltered air outside... you need to vent it to keep temps down and bring in fresh air unless you run co2 but you will still need a scrubber...

 

[jncoking]

Nice I will go look at ac tomorrow outdoor temps may near 100 next week. I started then in March, I'd be heartbroken if they die.

With the door of like in pic, I'm a 93 in the cabinet, outside temp 84 at midnight.

 

[mauiinfinity]

looking good! good luck with your grow!

 

[jncoking]

Thank you

 

[johnnyrotten]

Nice I will go look at ac tomorrow outdoor temps may near 100 next week. I started then in March, I'd be heartbroken if they die.

With the door of like in pic, I'm a 93 in the cabinet, outside temp 84 at midnight.

The reason they are looking good is because the humidity is high but once you get into flower that high humidity could give you bud rot, mold, PM or a multitude of other problems...do you have an RH gauge? The AC will probably help, many of them will dehumidify the air to a point if sized correctly to the room...

 

[caseyjones]

Loads of great advice in this thread. I run a small 165w cab to test phenos I'm not confident in bringing to my main flower room. I agree that you will most likely experience a longer flowering period than under HPS. Don't rely on anything other than the plants to tell you when they are ready. I made this mistake and took one nug too early. @ 60 days, then i took another at 68, and 75. The 75 was killer. I think a simple exhaust would get your temps down a bit. I run 165w with an ac in the room, and an in and out exhaust fan. my temps are still a bit high if the ac is off, high 80s if its hot out. i've only once broken 90. Definitely re-direct that lower energy to the top and keep them as close to the light as possible without them growing into it. For veg you may even want to switch over to T5's from my personal experience with vegging under CFL's.

Heres a Snow Lotus from the cab, i'll get some better pics of the whole plant. I just have a few from last round on here still. The plant had 3 main colas, i burned off the 4th with a shotty light hanging. lol. she recovered well, but i replaced the space with a clone of her in a cup to test if it would yield around the same as 1 branch of my 1 gal potted plant. It did yield around the same, and i think it only yielded slightly lower because of a shorter veg time. just 3 weeks instead of 2.5 months. Was a really nice yield but not much in the smell or taste department. Got around 1.5 oz dry. 1st-3rd pic are the 3 nugs tops. 4th pic is the clone added. Interestingly, the middle nug I trimmed up higher than the others, and you can see it redirected that energy and made that nug extra fat and lopsided LOL. however, the clone did much better as it was practically a second run. If it wasnt for that nug I would have killed this lotus off. Much tastier and smellier.

And currently in this cab is a starfighter x stardawg from greenpoint seeds

Hang in there! You can definitely get some nice plants under CFL's. Keep at it, and be patient. Its much more rewarding if you give it the proper time. Good luck amigo!

 

[johnnyrotten]

^^^ this guy is doing it right!! Those are some of the best looking cfl buds...

You guys are making feel bad, I've got to wait a couple more years until I can grow again...once the kids are out if the house...I have a real nice grow cab in an armoire that I built to grow in when I downsized... Never got to use it before the kids found it, had to start growing peppers in it...lol it uses cfl on the veg side and led on the flower side.

 

[caseyjones]

^^^ this guy is doing it right!! Those are some of the best looking cfl buds...

You guys are making feel bad, I've got to wait a couple more years until I can grow again...once the kids are out if the house...I have a real nice grow cab in an armoire that I built to grow in when I downsized... Never got to use it before the kids found it, had to start growing peppers in it...lol it uses cfl on the veg side and led on the flower side.

Haha! Thanks man. I appreciate the kind words. But I think its mostly stellar genetics. I was pretty impressed myself, as I ran in a similar cab, and even under an HPS after for my first grow. And didnt get the best results. There was about a 5 year period in between that i was itching to grow again and just read up a ton and collected genetics. I guess it paid off :D This cab was supposed to be my only growing area and it has snowballed into building out a whole room again :p So hopefully you'll grow even better plants when the wait is over, so dont feel too bad in the meantime :D CFL's are DEFINITELY capable of producing some high end nugs!

 

[johnnyrotten]

Yeah, I was growing in another house and had some good genetics...tore it down after a security issue...sold alot of my stuff, still have the essentials to start a room back up but I'm happy just helping here...for now!

 

[jncoking]

CaseyJones, beautiful plants man. I do appreciate all the advice and input from you and Johnnyrotten. I was beginning to think the CFL route was a bad idea but your pictures show its possible. Possible is all I need.

My temperature situation might be under control last night, I created a hole to allow the box fan to pull the heat from my cabinet. Same as yesterday, I check them 2 hours after lights come on. Outside temp is 88 f deg and the Cabinet is holding at 92f deg.

RH is at 64%, I got a high tech thermometer from Lowes that shows Humidity levels.

Im good at learning the hard way, I am impressed with my patience and my ability to have them this long. I would consider this a good education, things can only get better.

 

[jncoking]

Did I pass the timeline for removing lower foliage. I trimmed a little about a week ago. Im not sure how much to remove

 

[caseyjones]

CaseyJones, beautiful plants man. I do appreciate all the advice and input from you and Johnnyrotten. I was beginning to think the CFL route was a bad idea but your pictures show its possible. Possible is all I need.

My temperature situation might be under control last night, I created a hole to allow the box fan to pull the heat from my cabinet. Same as yesterday, I check them 2 hours after lights come on. Outside temp is 88 f deg and the Cabinet is holding at 92f deg.

RH is at 64%, I got a high tech thermometer from Lowes that shows Humidity levels.

Im good at learning the hard way, I am impressed with my patience and my ability to have them this long. I would consider this a good education, things can only get better.

Thanks brotha! Love choppin it up about the possibility of growing under different conditions than the norm. i felt the same way alot of times, questioning if CFL was even the way to go based off of alot of naysayers. But I am convinced you can grow under them and have happy plants and be happy with the results.

Your temps don't sound like as big of an issue as your humidity to me. If you can, get a couple PC fans and get them sucking air in from the bottom and out from the top as well and your temps will be fine I bet. Probably drop the humidity too, i think. though, that could create an issue with odor control/lightleaks. What i did with mine was created ducting out of some used up toilet paper rolls and created an L shape and made a hole in a tissue box and filled it with dryer sheets LOL. sucked the air out and made the room(but not the cab) smell like a dyer was running. Im not sure if there is a downside to this, but it worked for me. And I havent noticed any ill effects in terms of the buds. They have their own scents nothing like a dryer sheet, no dryer sheet fuzz on nugs or in the cab floating around or anything. Try it out maybe it will be a simple and cheap solution for you.

I definitely learn the hardway as well. I firmly believe you learn better from hands on experience and making mistakes yourself. I read 1000x dont hang your lights badly or they could drop on your plants and burn your plants, break etc. But i didnt retain the information really. Now i know, because i did just that. And i'll likely never do it again.

Did I pass the timeline for removing lower foliage. I trimmed a little about a week ago. Im not sure how much to remove

I dont think so. I honestly am no expert in this field at all, and have worried myself that i am doing it too late. But i do it way later than you are at now. That picture i posted of the starfighter x stardawg, i just trimmed small nugs off the bottom. I do it all the way up to maybe week 5-6? anything thats small towards the bottom seems to redirect and be at the top if that makes sense. Now, I couldnt say for sure whether or not those little nugs i cut off would have been more of a yield than added to the top. But it does seem to redirect the amount i cut off to the top. IE; if i cut off a .5 nug from the bottom my nug at the top would be .5 added. or atleast it seems to do that to me. i'm just talking basically out of my own perception of what is happening. There are some fellas around here who would know better whats happening to the plant when you do that and what is too much. But I've been treating it basically like its not too late up to flush and i take off basically anything thats not connected as 1 top nug. But I've been wondering myself, if theres a cut off point to where you shouldnt chop them and if im possibly hurting my yield by doing it so late. Or even possibly stressing them and would have to worry about herms. I've read that you shouldn't do it after veg even. But I trim up until about the time i start flush. Give it a try and see how it works for you, and your plant. They can tell you better than I can if its too much IMO.

 

[tobh]

I trim up until day 21 flower. I trim heavily one time a week before flip, again at 7 days after flip, day 14 and finally day 21. Anything later is unnecessary stress and will impact your overall yields. I also take about 1/3 off the bottom, depending on growth style. This last run I should have done more trimming but was my first time with scrog and shit got out of hand. You can see the grow in my link in my signature.

You're not doing too bad with the heat issues you have. I've been there man. The key to keeping your temps under control is if you're growing in a cabinet, the room this cabinet is in WILL impact the internals temps of your cab. I typically assume the cabinet will run 5 to 10 degrees hotter than the room, so the room needs to be no more than 75 degrees. The 10 degrees is a long shot now since I've figured out ventilation and air exchange, but you always have to consider worst case scenario. The ideal situation is to be able to run a much larger setup in a better climate controlled environment with proper equipment. I also know the difficulties associated with lack of cash flow.

This gives you the two pieces you need to modify to get your temps down around 78. Cool the shed the cab is in and get some good ventilation going in the cabinet. Good ventilation = happy plants. Bad ventilation = enough problems to make you miserable with life.

Over 85 is simply bad conditions for most plants as the VPD gets out of control up there. Where your temps are I don't think PM could survive though I would be worried about lack of producing (or loss of) terpenes and odd bud development. Key things that you don't really want.

CFL's are totally capable of producing a fine product if learnt how to use properly. They have a bad rap because many first timers try with them and wind up producing lack luster product and never really acknowledge they need the lights within inches of the plant tops at all times, really solid ventilation, no light leaks and a good feeding plan in place. They are great for budget grows but still aren't as efficient as higher wattage HIDs. The day one hits 1 gram/watt with CFLs would be a wonderful day.

One Love,
tobh

 

[caseyjones]

I trim up until day 21 flower. I trim heavily one time a week before flip, again at 7 days after flip, day 14 and finally day 21. Anything later is unnecessary stress and will impact your overall yields. I also take about 1/3 off the bottom, depending on growth style. This last run I should have done more trimming but was my first time with scrog and shit got out of hand. You can see the grow in my link in my signature.

You're not doing too bad with the heat issues you have. I've been there man. The key to keeping your temps under control is if you're growing in a cabinet, the room this cabinet is in WILL impact the internals temps of your cab. I typically assume the cabinet will run 5 to 10 degrees hotter than the room, so the room needs to be no more than 75 degrees. The 10 degrees is a long shot now since I've figured out ventilation and air exchange, but you always have to consider worst case scenario. The ideal situation is to be able to run a much larger setup in a better climate controlled environment with proper equipment. I also know the difficulties associated with lack of cash flow.

This gives you the two pieces you need to modify to get your temps down around 78. Cool the shed the cab is in and get some good ventilation going in the cabinet. Good ventilation = happy plants. Bad ventilation = enough problems to make you miserable with life.

Over 85 is simply bad conditions for most plants as the VPD gets out of control up there. Where your temps are I don't think PM could survive though I would be worried about lack of producing (or loss of) terpenes and odd bud development. Key things that you don't really want.

CFL's are totally capable of producing a fine product if learnt how to use properly. They have a bad rap because many first timers try with them and wind up producing lack luster product and never really acknowledge they need the lights within inches of the plant tops at all times, really solid ventilation, no light leaks and a good feeding plan in place. They are great for budget grows but still aren't as efficient as higher wattage HIDs. The day one hits 1 gram/watt with CFLs would be a wonderful day.

One Love,
tobh

Great info tobh! just curious, say you missed cutting at day 21, would you cut it late still or not? I mean personally, do you find it more beneficial to not stress the plants, and end up with nugs that might not be as good as the rest? Or is it a non factor because at that point, the redirection of the energy is minimal?

I'd like your opinion on this, on that particular snow lotus plant, i decided to do a perpetual harvest. Took the first nug at 60, second at 65, and third at 70. To compare effects of different harvest times. The 70 was definitely the heaviest in effect, and was my favorite of them. would you advise against this? would it be stressful to those last nugs and hurt my harvest/quality? It seemed as the other nugs benefited from extra energy when a nug was cut down. However, the 60 i believe was too early to cut too, so its possible it was just a last push on my ladies part not redirected energy from the cut down nugs.

I totally agree about the temps being more of an issue with production and terp loss. Those were my main concerns with getting my temps down, my humidity was pretty low so i never really worried about fungus problems. Just noticed some foxtailing and loss of smell. So made it my main concern and i got my lights cooled and moved them closer to the lights, and my plants couldnt be happier and smellier :D

And 100% agree as well with the fact that CFL wont be as efficient as HID. I've been heavily considering replacing this cab with a tent/150whps for the higher lumen output, but wonder if its worth it to worry about the extra heat, hanging etc. But I'd be running 15 less watts with an added 4600 lumens.. I just feel the extra headache wouldn't be worth it as I have a main flower room that these girls will be moving to soon! But on the other hand, I wonder if maybe I'm tossing phenos that would do great in that set up and if this set up isn't efficient for testing phenos for that seperate more effecient environment.

 

[tobh]

I just use the three point trimming timeline as a guide, not set in stone. Missing the day 21 trim isn't a huge deal as I take most of what I'll be removing off at the day 7 trim anyways. The day 14 and day 21 are mostly for stragglers. I even trim up to around week 5, just not pulling a ton off. A fan leaf here and there, maybe a surprise straggler that won't be anything in the end. If I run into height issues, super cropping is my solution there.

As for pulling sample buds, I don't see an issue with that. Most growers do it anyways when working with a new unfamiliar strain or something they have worked for a while but did differently and see something they just are too excited to wait for. As long as you're not doing like a partial harvest I don't see an issue with it. I did the same thing this last run, looking to find that sweet spot to harvest at. Probably won't do the same thing again this next run as I know where I'll be finishing up with my strain and that in itself is a huge benefit. Knowing the genetics is just as important, regardless of light source. One benefit I would say of not completely lollipopping the ladies is some of those straggler buds make good samplers. They won't impact your final weight much anyways and a few here and there won't take an excess amount of energy from the nice buds you're after.

That heat though, I know exactly what you're talking about. I would proceed, if money allowed, as you planned with the tent and 150w HPS. With the added lumens, you'll definitely have higher heat issues but they can be addressed with the comments in my previous post here. Once you have the heat under control everything else will become a cake walk. I swear, heat is the Lucifer of small grows. Trying to keep a small cabinet cooled takes so much more fine tuning than setting up a 8' x 10' x 8' room in my opinion. The thing is if you can get that room controlled you can run a cabinet or multiples in it and be just as comfortable. BUT the efficiency would go up substantially just in growth rates and overall bud production with the HPS.

Some people will argue the point of no cutting post flip, will cause stress, may result in hermies, blah blah blah. To those ends I say this plant grew in nature and has defences in place. Frankly, if the plant gets stressed out and throws nanners because I trimmed three weeks into flower, it doesn't have a place anywhere in my grow. Sure, it may be "fire", but it's unstable fucking genetics and I'm not ok with that. Hell, the strain I'm working on right now went through HELL this last run, more stress than I can even mention. Moves, timer fuck ups, light leaks, heat issues, pH issues, general abuse. Sure, the end result wasn't kill shit, but my patients love it so far and I will be running it again because it's stable enough to go through the shit I can throw at it and not drop nanners.

Sorry for the long reply, this stuff gets me lifted and I just kind of ramble sometimes. Oh, ganja :)

One Love,
tobh

 

[jncoking]

Fellas, I have to leave town from Thursday till Sunday, will 3 days of dark devastate my plants. I've never had to leave, I trust the wiring but I can't risk a surprize. Fans will be the only thing running.