Aeroponics vs DWC

Discussion in 'General Indoor Growing' started by squarepusher, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    Hello. I wanted to get some input or opinions on which grow methods have their advantages.

    I was reading somewhere else, that aeroponics gives the roots 99% oxygen, while DWC (dissolved oxygen) gives about 2% oxygen to the roots. Which method is more effective?

    I'd say aeroponics is more difficult, because you need sprayers and its possible to break and you your roots die within a few hours if they do break, but is it more effective? Does aeroponics give better yield and quicker grow times?


    DWC is kind of easy, since basically you just need water and an airstone, not a lot to mess up. Because its easy, there are tons of DWC grow reports and people showing good systems and getting good results (and bad results). Are the good results just because it is relatively simple and therefore more common?


    Do roots thrive better under 2% oxygen (DWC), or 99% oxygen (aeroponics). Which one has better nutrient/air intake?

    Love to hear opinions, please.
     
  2. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    if you dont care about numbers aeroponics beats anything.
     
  3. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    so, essentially aeroponics is better than DWC. I'm guessing, the only possible explanation for this would be more oxygen. What if we added more oxygen to our DWC's? Like, several air-stones per tub? Would we be improving?


    I wonder if its possible to do an aeroponic tree grow? Think, an aeroponic cloner tub, say 20 gallons except for 1 plant only (tree grow). Say, 8-10 sprayers per tub. Would this be feasible/effective?
     
  4. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    theres people on here running systems like that. i think you would want a lot more than 8-10 sprayers though. talk to jalisco kid if you want to know more about the kind of system your talking about. with dwc i dont think it would matter how many airstones you added it would never equal aeroponics. i have this oxygen generator i want to use for a dwc system and see if it improves it. the machine makes 95% oxygen. i want to see if adding pure oxygen to the res will do anything.
     
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  5. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    wow, thats pretty damn serious. Anyone want to take a gander on how much more efficient aeroponics is than the nearest best system (rDWC or Krusty Buckets?) 2% better yield? 5% higher yield given identical conditions? 10% better yield?
     
  6. altitudefarmer

    altitudefarmer Well-Known Farmer

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    It will tremendously improve your root mass and therefore your yield, especially if you don't locate that aquarium pump outside the CO2-enriched bloom area. Many people mistakenly pump more CO2 than oxygen to their DWC buckets....
     
  7. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    i always place my airpumps out of the room but with this unit i dont think it would matter as it seperates the oxygen from the air and pumps it out around 95%. heres the pamphlet.
     

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  8. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    that looks like an amazing unit, but the question is, does the water become saturated (carrying capacity) with oxygen? If so, then adding pure oxygen wouldn't seem to do much.

    My intuition says adding several airstones may be more effective, but I am certainly no pro or expert at these matters. With having several airstones, I imagine not only do you dissolve oxygen into the water, but you may trap small air bubbles in the root hairs, providing more oxygen to them.


    I've been reading up on http://www.stinkbuddies.com/ for a few days, he seems to have a nice aeroponic system dialed in, but I don't see myself trying to replicate it.

    I am following TX's current grow now, I'll have to look into Jalesco's too
     
  9. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    this is how the technology works.


    Many oxygen applications use cylinders, or
    bulk oxygen in the form of liquid oxygen
    (LOX) which must be delivered to the
    place of use. However, a savings can
    made by using an on-site generated oxygen
    system. Oxygen made on-site may even be
    more critical for remote applications, far
    away from the source supply.
    Enriched oxygen can be generated on-site
    by several methods such as chemical,
    electrolytic and cryogenic to name a few.
    A cost effective and simple technology that
    has been used since the 1950’s is Pressure
    Swing Adsorption (PSA). By connecting an
    oxygen generator to an existing air
    supply, or a feed air system supplied by
    you can produce oxygen on
    demand at considerable savings using
    PSA Technology.
    The air we breathe contains roughly 78%
    nitrogen, 21% oxygen, .9% argon with the
    balance being other gases. The oxygen is
    separated from the air using PSA
    Technology. The process centers around
    molecular sieve called Zeolite.
    At high pressures the sieve adsorbs or
    attracts nitrogen and at low pressures it
    desorbs or releases nitrogen. The
    generator consists of two tanks filled with
    sieve. As high pressure air (about 72 psi) is
    introduced into the first tank, it passes
    through the sieve and nitrogen is adsorbed.
    The remaining oxygen and trace gases are
    piped to a buffer or surge tank.
    Just before the first tank becomes
    completely saturated with nitrogen, feed air
    is redirected to the second tank which then
    repeats the above process. An equalization
    step is incorporated to optimize performance.
    The first tank is then vented to
    atmosphere which allows the nitrogen to
    desorb or release from the sieve.
    To complete the regeneration of the
    first tank, a small amount of the oxygen
    is used to purge it. This process is
    completed over and over again until the
    demand for oxygen is met. Under normal
    operating conditions, which includes the
    use of clean, dry air for separation, the
    sieve will last indefinitely.
    Productivity of a PSA generator is
    dependent on the oxygen purity required.
    A generator can produce significantly more
    oxygen at 90% purity as it can at 95.4%,
    with a relatively small increase in feed air.
    By means of a PLC or some other micro
    processor based controller, it is practical
    on larger generators for the user to change
    the swing cycles. Purity and flow levels can
    be selected and optimized based on
    changing demand variables.
     
  10. 20north

    20north New Farmer

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    why compair they are 2 totally different platforms........ that work around different peoples needs

    both are the best. they both just have alot of personal preff involved do you like spending all your time filling and draining resies i dont so if i had to choose i would do R-dwc. water costs money just like elecy
     
  11. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    if your talking weight watt to watt of light aero will destroy rwdc. i rather run the rwdc smaller numbers and you can have a life and not be chained to your room.
     
  12. CAPO

    CAPO Active Farmer

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    you let us know if that oxygen generator improves the aero won't you?
     
  13. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    capo- i was going to try it with an rwdc sytem but ya ill let everyone know.
     
  14. Jalisco Kid

    Jalisco Kid Well-Known Farmer

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    Look in the medical section on craigs list for one of these machines. Unfortunately people do not usually last very long on them.
    I would agree with what has been said except about %'s. I am prejudice because I make tanks of my own design. My system with the shallow dwc is maybe one of the safest forms of aero to run. I have the drip at top and the dwc aspect to cover my ass if the pump fails on the aero. If I was a production grower with a lot on my hands I would run my rcdwc GM 3000's. If I wanted to maximize my yield and was an observant grower I would use my gm 1000's. If I wanted large plants with less hassle I would run the GM 500's (close to a krusty bucket).
    If you want real production but it comes with feast or famine I would run 8" pvc into 12" pvc manifolds to my rez with about 6" between tubes. JK
     
    Pluribus.Maximus likes this.
  15. LordDankinstien

    LordDankinstien Active Farmer

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    you just explained my consistant ph drop with my last system... thats a good fuck observation thanks.. I cant believe I never thought of that:sign0065:... ++++ rep
     
  16. t.o.med

    t.o.med Farmer

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    jk- i already have the ogs-15 had it for a couple years now just never used it. what do you think the best way would be to deliver the oxygen to the res or plumbed to each bucket.

    i had a aero system like your talking about above. 2000 sites spaced 6 inches apart under 24 1000w hps hung vertical aero unit setup in a big W config with lights down the middle. thing is i found 6 inch spacing too close and i flippped them into flower as soon as the clones rooted no veg time if i ever did another aero i think i would space them farther apart.
     
  17. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    ok, another question. Since ebb and grow gives more oxygen to the roots (say, 6-7 flood cycles a day), would this method be superior to a (r)DWC ?
     
  18. Jalisco Kid

    Jalisco Kid Well-Known Farmer

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    It all depends on your situation. I can not have a lot of plants, so I grow my way.TK uses 4 x 4' trays,he loads them up with 12-20 plants. That same area I use 1 gm 1000,1 plant. We both get the same weight because he is a maestro,me I just show up at the end of harvest. He has to maximize everything while I am more or less on autocruise.
    The best system is the one you feel the most comfort with. My system requires money,others require more skill.Though my sys without being real observant is a disaster waiting to happen. JK
     
  19. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

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    @ t o med.

    I wanted to ask, what about dissolved Ozone (O3) into water? I just ordered a unit off ebay for odor control, and it shipped to me today. It came with an airtube and diffuser/airstone type attachment.. I read the instructions, and the instructions says I can attach this directly to water to
    "1) dissolve organic impurity 2)bleach water 3) increase the oxygen level in the water"


    any ideas how this would work?


    EDIT: some quick ghetto google search

    http://www.w-m-t.com/Products/Ozone_Generators.php

    Products
    Ozone Generators

    Engineers at Guardian Manufacturing have designed the newest and most efficient ozone integrated systems on the market, using the latest precision Plasma Block™ Technology and Pulse Density Modulating Generators. Running above 20,000 hertz, these units will perform at the highest efficiencies in the industry for a long and trouble free operation.

    Ozone is 12.5 times more soluble in water than oxygen. This allows ozone to dissolve into water at more than 500 ppm and can saturate the water with dissolved oxygen following degradation.

    There are numerous applications for ozone dissolved in water. Aquariums, pools, spas, bottling plants, food plants, drinking water, RO water, wastewater, cooling towers and many more.

    The ozone insures the system and water are bacteria free. Ozone is 50 times more powerful and over 3000 times faster acting than chlorine bleach. For this reason, ozone is used at beverage and food processing plants throughout the world. Ozone insures that the quality of the water is meeting the strict guidelines of each processing plant. Because ozone can be produced onsite and on demand, the effect is reduced chemical cost, storage, handling and added plant safety.




    the only downside apparently is it kills bacteria, and it may also kill the plant roots? this would obviously end the idea immediately.
     
  20. bud good

    bud good Farmer

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    man i really really wanted to do aero but i didnt want to take the risk with failed sprayers so after reading all the forms post ive decided to go coco but the way i understand it aero is better than dwc you can make a bucket system with both but this just diffrent methods of growing dwc deep water culture the roots are submersed in water and in aero the roots are suspened in air pure o2 rich air ive been told 5 mins off 1 min on(my aero cloners runs great with this sched.) give optimum conditions but im to chicken to gamble but i do plan on running aero sometime soon just not ready too switch completely over unless i can perfect it