Aeroponics vs DWC

Discussion in 'General Indoor Growing' started by squarepusher, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

    Hello. I wanted to get some input or opinions on which grow methods have their advantages.

    I was reading somewhere else, that aeroponics gives the roots 99% oxygen, while DWC (dissolved oxygen) gives about 2% oxygen to the roots. Which method is more effective?

    I'd say aeroponics is more difficult, because you need sprayers and its possible to break and you your roots die within a few hours if they do break, but is it more effective? Does aeroponics give better yield and quicker grow times?

    DWC is kind of easy, since basically you just need water and an airstone, not a lot to mess up. Because its easy, there are tons of DWC grow reports and people showing good systems and getting good results (and bad results). Are the good results just because it is relatively simple and therefore more common?

    Do roots thrive better under 2% oxygen (DWC), or 99% oxygen (aeroponics). Which one has better nutrient/air intake?

    Love to hear opinions, please.
  2. VelvetElvis

    VelvetElvis Farmer

    roots certainly do better with aeroponics, many years ago the craze for cloning was to float your cuts in oxygenated water..... now the craze is do it yourself aerocloners or buying overpriced aerocloners.

    sprayers and parts are cheap, and dont break unless youre careless, i wouldnt do aeroponics if youre using organic based nutrients. clogs up sprayrs etc. if going synthetic it would work great.

    you could easily make your own aeroponic rubbrmaid and put two three plants in easy...

    just need 396 gallon pr hour pump or larger
    .75 cents aero sprayers
    1/2 inch pvc, and proper fittings
    neoprene discs

    there are many ways to do it, it is good for hobby plant or special baby, but system wide requires closer eye and dedication. its best to check functionality at least twice a day, all it takes is failed pump and whole crop is dead....
  3. Farmer

    if you dont care about numbers aeroponics beats anything.
  4. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

    so, essentially aeroponics is better than DWC. I'm guessing, the only possible explanation for this would be more oxygen. What if we added more oxygen to our DWC's? Like, several air-stones per tub? Would we be improving?

    I wonder if its possible to do an aeroponic tree grow? Think, an aeroponic cloner tub, say 20 gallons except for 1 plant only (tree grow). Say, 8-10 sprayers per tub. Would this be feasible/effective?
  5. Farmer

    theres people on here running systems like that. i think you would want a lot more than 8-10 sprayers though. talk to jalisco kid if you want to know more about the kind of system your talking about. with dwc i dont think it would matter how many airstones you added it would never equal aeroponics. i have this oxygen generator i want to use for a dwc system and see if it improves it. the machine makes 95% oxygen. i want to see if adding pure oxygen to the res will do anything.

    Attached Files:

  6. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

    wow, thats pretty damn serious. Anyone want to take a gander on how much more efficient aeroponics is than the nearest best system (rDWC or Krusty Buckets?) 2% better yield? 5% higher yield given identical conditions? 10% better yield?
  7. VelvetElvis

    VelvetElvis Farmer

    10% if not more.

    dwc with airstones no matter how many only oxygenates the water to like 10%saturated while good aeroponic setup is max at like 90% saturated, this is due to while particles are in limbo or in air extra oxygen molecules attach to droplets etc, and during their fall back to reservoir. Finer the mist, the better.

    massiv aeration in the root zone in dwc, brings you close to full potential, check out texas kids logs, or jalisco kid.

    the main trick is the roots block thorough spray to the root ball, and the root ball will get humongous.

    its possible but would take up too much space, vrsus three dwc in a five gallon.

    maybe an outdoor project for next summer lol
  8. altitudefarmer

    altitudefarmer Well-Known Farmer

    It will tremendously improve your root mass and therefore your yield, especially if you don't locate that aquarium pump outside the CO2-enriched bloom area. Many people mistakenly pump more CO2 than oxygen to their DWC buckets....
  9. Farmer

    i always place my airpumps out of the room but with this unit i dont think it would matter as it seperates the oxygen from the air and pumps it out around 95%. heres the pamphlet.

    Attached Files:

  10. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

    that looks like an amazing unit, but the question is, does the water become saturated (carrying capacity) with oxygen? If so, then adding pure oxygen wouldn't seem to do much.

    My intuition says adding several airstones may be more effective, but I am certainly no pro or expert at these matters. With having several airstones, I imagine not only do you dissolve oxygen into the water, but you may trap small air bubbles in the root hairs, providing more oxygen to them.

    I've been reading up on for a few days, he seems to have a nice aeroponic system dialed in, but I don't see myself trying to replicate it.

    I am following TX's current grow now, I'll have to look into Jalesco's too
  11. Farmer

    this is how the technology works.

    Many oxygen applications use cylinders, or
    bulk oxygen in the form of liquid oxygen
    (LOX) which must be delivered to the
    place of use. However, a savings can
    made by using an on-site generated oxygen
    system. Oxygen made on-site may even be
    more critical for remote applications, far
    away from the source supply.
    Enriched oxygen can be generated on-site
    by several methods such as chemical,
    electrolytic and cryogenic to name a few.
    A cost effective and simple technology that
    has been used since the 1950’s is Pressure
    Swing Adsorption (PSA). By connecting an
    oxygen generator to an existing air
    supply, or a feed air system supplied by
    you can produce oxygen on
    demand at considerable savings using
    PSA Technology.
    The air we breathe contains roughly 78%
    nitrogen, 21% oxygen, .9% argon with the
    balance being other gases. The oxygen is
    separated from the air using PSA
    Technology. The process centers around
    molecular sieve called Zeolite.
    At high pressures the sieve adsorbs or
    attracts nitrogen and at low pressures it
    desorbs or releases nitrogen. The
    generator consists of two tanks filled with
    sieve. As high pressure air (about 72 psi) is
    introduced into the first tank, it passes
    through the sieve and nitrogen is adsorbed.
    The remaining oxygen and trace gases are
    piped to a buffer or surge tank.
    Just before the first tank becomes
    completely saturated with nitrogen, feed air
    is redirected to the second tank which then
    repeats the above process. An equalization
    step is incorporated to optimize performance.
    The first tank is then vented to
    atmosphere which allows the nitrogen to
    desorb or release from the sieve.
    To complete the regeneration of the
    first tank, a small amount of the oxygen
    is used to purge it. This process is
    completed over and over again until the
    demand for oxygen is met. Under normal
    operating conditions, which includes the
    use of clean, dry air for separation, the
    sieve will last indefinitely.
    Productivity of a PSA generator is
    dependent on the oxygen purity required.
    A generator can produce significantly more
    oxygen at 90% purity as it can at 95.4%,
    with a relatively small increase in feed air.
    By means of a PLC or some other micro
    processor based controller, it is practical
    on larger generators for the user to change
    the swing cycles. Purity and flow levels can
    be selected and optimized based on
    changing demand variables.
  12. 20north

    20north New Farmer

    why compair they are 2 totally different platforms........ that work around different peoples needs

    both are the best. they both just have alot of personal preff involved do you like spending all your time filling and draining resies i dont so if i had to choose i would do R-dwc. water costs money just like elecy
  13. Farmer

    if your talking weight watt to watt of light aero will destroy rwdc. i rather run the rwdc smaller numbers and you can have a life and not be chained to your room.
  14. CAPO

    CAPO Active Farmer

    you let us know if that oxygen generator improves the aero won't you?
  15. Farmer

    capo- i was going to try it with an rwdc sytem but ya ill let everyone know.
  16. Jalisco Kid

    Jalisco Kid Well-Known Farmer

    Look in the medical section on craigs list for one of these machines. Unfortunately people do not usually last very long on them.
    I would agree with what has been said except about %'s. I am prejudice because I make tanks of my own design. My system with the shallow dwc is maybe one of the safest forms of aero to run. I have the drip at top and the dwc aspect to cover my ass if the pump fails on the aero. If I was a production grower with a lot on my hands I would run my rcdwc GM 3000's. If I wanted to maximize my yield and was an observant grower I would use my gm 1000's. If I wanted large plants with less hassle I would run the GM 500's (close to a krusty bucket).
    If you want real production but it comes with feast or famine I would run 8" pvc into 12" pvc manifolds to my rez with about 6" between tubes. JK
    Pluribus.Maximus likes this.
  17. LordDankinstien

    LordDankinstien Active Farmer

    you just explained my consistant ph drop with my last system... thats a good fuck observation thanks.. I cant believe I never thought of that:sign0065:... ++++ rep
  18. Farmer

    jk- i already have the ogs-15 had it for a couple years now just never used it. what do you think the best way would be to deliver the oxygen to the res or plumbed to each bucket.

    i had a aero system like your talking about above. 2000 sites spaced 6 inches apart under 24 1000w hps hung vertical aero unit setup in a big W config with lights down the middle. thing is i found 6 inch spacing too close and i flippped them into flower as soon as the clones rooted no veg time if i ever did another aero i think i would space them farther apart.
  19. squarepusher

    squarepusher Active Farmer

    ok, another question. Since ebb and grow gives more oxygen to the roots (say, 6-7 flood cycles a day), would this method be superior to a (r)DWC ?
  20. Jalisco Kid

    Jalisco Kid Well-Known Farmer

    It all depends on your situation. I can not have a lot of plants, so I grow my way.TK uses 4 x 4' trays,he loads them up with 12-20 plants. That same area I use 1 gm 1000,1 plant. We both get the same weight because he is a maestro,me I just show up at the end of harvest. He has to maximize everything while I am more or less on autocruise.
    The best system is the one you feel the most comfort with. My system requires money,others require more skill.Though my sys without being real observant is a disaster waiting to happen. JK