Bog Bubble W/ Cree Leds - Old School, New School

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Larry.G

Larry.G

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This is my first grow so I'm wide open to comments, suggestions and ideas.

The goal:
To successfully grow out one female plant from seed to harvest in a small 2 x 2 x 5 tent.

The setup:
I decided it would be fun for my first grow to try a blend of old school genetics (BOG's BOG Bubble) with some newer technology, a Timber Grow Lights 200W CXB3590 LED at 3500k.
I'm running a pre-mixed version of Organic Super Soil, watering with regular tap water (tested at 7.5PH, 200ppm, bubbled for 24 hours). Temperatures hit 72F during the day, 65F at night, relative humidity hovers around 40%.
Using a 65 CFM silent fan to vent the tent. (Will be switching to an S&P TD-Silent Series Inline Fan with 8" Phresh Filter next week.)

The plan:
My plan was to germinate 5 seeds, veg them under the LED fixture, grow them out until about 12 inches tall (or I ran out of room), sex them and then choose a keeper to grow out to finish. I wasn't sure how much space the plants would take up in the tent along the way and I was curious to see the results of vegging the seedlings under the LED.

Week 0 - 3:
The soil looked great out of the bag, really chunky and super lightweight. The lava rock and rice hulls add depth and variety. Smelled great too.

Bog bubble w cree leds   old school new school


For the first few weeks, I watered the seedlings with regular tap and kept the lights dimmed down about 75% to about 25 watts/sq.ft, at a distance of about 24 inches. Light was on 24/7. They seemed to respond well.

Bog bubble w cree leds   old school new school 2


Seedlings had a tiny bit of stretch but they seemed to respond well to the LEDs. Three seedlings sprouted vigorously, one had a pretty strong mutation and one was stunted. I pruned the mutation and gently coaxed the runt - both corrected strongly and likely could have been grown out, but I culled them to focus on the three strongest since they were over a week behind.

I topped each of the seedlings once at about this point in their growth.

Bog bubble w cree leds   old school new school 3


Week 4 - 6:

I added a dose of low-strength liquid kelp to every other watering. I also switched to an 18/6 light schedule. The plants grew extremely bushy. I'm not sure if this is due to genetic or environmental factors. Did some stem bending and gentle super-cropping as well. Growth seems slow but steady. The photos below were taken at week 6 from seed.

I've been noticing some leaf discoloration at the tips and veins (since week 4). It looks like either mag lock-out or nutrient burn (maybe I went too heavy on the kelp?) I'm hesitant to add dolomite lime or hit them with a heavy dose of nutes because I'm confident the soil PH was well-balanced and even with 7.5PH waterings, I don't think PH could be the problem, but not sure. Doesn't seem too bad yet.

Bog bubble w cree leds   old school new school 5



Bog bubble w cree leds   old school new school 4


Bog bubble w cree leds   old school new school 6


Lessons thus far:
- The Cree CXB3590 LEDs are very strong. I've tried to gradually turn up their intensity a few times but it seems to stress the plants as they wilt and stunt. When I turn the intensity back down to 35 watts/sq.ft they perk back up again. It seems like light distance matters less than overall intensity with quality LEDs. I now have the fixture 24" from the tops and would probably raise it even higher if I had the space. I'm a little concerned about light distance after the stretch of flowering.

- My grow space gets cold at night so I added a tiny space heater and thermostat. It fixed the temperature problem but was blowing hot, dry air directly on the plants all night. I noticed it was causing some leaves to become brittle and crack so I swapped the space heater for a radiant seedling mat. Much better.

- I transplanted from 1 gallon plastic containers to 3 gallon fabric smart pots. I don't think smart pots were the best choice for this grow. My humidity is low, and the pots dry out very quickly. They are difficult to keep moist and the roots have grown into the sides which will make my final transplant difficult. I've already decided on "Rootmaker" pots for next time.

- At around week 4 of 24/7 light, the plants seemed wilted and stressed. They seemed tired, if that makes sense. I switched from a 24/7 to 18/6 light schedule and they perked up immediately. Been on 18/6 ever since.

Future:
I'll keep this thread updated so you can grow along with me, following all the ups and downs! Feel free to chime in with your comments, questions or suggestions. Hope you enjoyed!
 
testiclees

testiclees

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Wise to drop down to 18/6. If your space is highly reflective and youve got high ppfd keeping the lights high is a good idea.

Its a good idea to have your soil tested so you have a solid reference point. I think id hit those ladies with some gypsum before dolomite.
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
Wise to drop down to 18/6. If your space is highly reflective and youve got high ppfd keeping the lights high is a good idea.

Its a good idea to have your soil tested so you have a solid reference point. I think id hit those ladies with some gypsum before dolomite.

Great point about the gypsum. I didn't even think of a Sulfur deficiency, but I just checked the girls and there are purple streaks on all the stems, which are strangely woody. Wondering if a dose of Sul-Po-Mag might be just what they need...
 
soserthc1

soserthc1

7,040
313
7.5 ph tap needs dropping to between 6.0 and 6.7
Plants require sleep : this is debated but allow yourself a dark cycle and see if your plants don't look to be sleeping
Watch for light leaks with extention cords and heaters etc
It's a common new mistake but doesn't matter much until flower.
 
testiclees

testiclees

230
63
Try watering with r/o or distilled for a while and see if things improve.

You have no idea whats up without soil testing. Adding k and mg when you already maybe loaded would suck. At least with gypsum youre definitely getting available Ca in play, S isnt gonna kill ya and youll be removing excess mg, na, k.

What was the source of your super soil?

Ive gotten some good results under cxb's using 5-7-10 gal fabrics.
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
7.5 ph tap needs dropping to between 6.0 and 6.7
Plants require sleep : this is debated but allow yourself a dark cycle and see if your plants don't look to be sleeping
Watch for light leaks with extention cords and heaters etc
It's a common new mistake but doesn't matter much until flower.

I agree on the 18/6 schedule. They are doing much better with some rest. Thanks for the PH tip.

I'm with soser,pH needs to drop.

Thanks for the PH tip. Will take the advice.

Try watering with r/o or distilled for a while and see if things improve.

You have no idea whats up without soil testing. Adding k and mg when you already maybe loaded would suck. At least with gypsum youre definitely getting available Ca in play, S isnt gonna kill ya and youll be removing excess mg, na, k.

What was the source of your super soil?

Ive gotten some good results under cxb's using 5-7-10 gal fabrics.

Good advice. I'll hold off on adding anything just yet.
I'm using Build-A-Soil's Modern Mix, seems to be a pretty solid SS recipe. Maybe it needs some time to break down all the organic goodness inside. I've read that some folks say the soil is better the second or third time. I also haven't done any compost teas, so maybe that's another reason all the nutes aren't as accessible this early on.

Regardless, based on everyone's advice, I'm going to try a few weeks of nothing but distilled water and see what happens. Will keep you posted.
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
Quick update. Today I flushed with distilled water (6.5PH) and checked the runoff for the first time.

Each runoff measured 7.0 PH
Going to continue to water with distilled and see if the yellow tips or interveinal chlorosis gets better.
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
Update (Day 3 of Flower):

PH research, water testing and calcium:

I was determined to figure out the chlorosis/yellowing issue, especially because I'm using a laboratory-tested Cootz super-soil mix with premium ingredients and I was pretty sure there was plenty of nutrients available in the soil.

I did some reading and found a fascinating article that might help explain my situation. A scientist wrote a paper claiming that unlike field soil, nutrient lock-out in container plants is not really a result of the PH of your water source but rather the accumulation of calcium from your water, from fertilizer or from mineral amendments used to build the mix.

This made some sense. My soil mix was very high in calcium, my tap water was testing 7.5PH with 150ppm with 55ppm of calcium. I think it's possible that calcium build-up in my soil from amendments and my tap water, rather than the 7.5PH of the water alone, was responsible for some light nutrient lock-out.

Potential solution? Distilled H2O + Good Feeding.
After taking advice from here and consulting with an experienced friend, I transplanted the girls to 3 gallon root-maker pots (from 2 gallon smart-pots) giving them more space, switched to distilled water and added some organic nutrients to the feeding (Better Organix K-Amino + Veg). Take a look - I think they look better, the chlorosis is almost completely gone although some yellow edging and tips remain on a few leaves. Overall I think they look happy.

Flower day 3 1


Flower day 3 2


Flipped them to flower! Day 3:
I've culled one plant and am down to 2 in the 2x2 tent and at 12 inches + 12 inches of pots I'm running out of head space quickly. I've decided to set up a screen to try and keep the canopy even and control stretch a bit. Neither plant is showing sex yet (they probably are but I'm not experienced enough to tell) so I'm expecting to cull one more if space gets really tight.

OOoo, that sweet smell:
The plant I culled had the traditional skunky marijuana smell which is not exactly what I was searching for with this grow, so I didn't feel too bad. The last two are different. They both have a nice fruity/floral smell to them, very interesting. I'm hoping they are girls and they develop some of the bubblegum scents through flowering. Cross your fingers and I'll keep this thread updated.

Flower day 3 3


Flower stem
 
testiclees

testiclees

230
63
Looking happy now.

Bro for 25$ you can KNOW whats up.

Carl Whitcomb is def an expert on container nursery practices i have one of his texts in my 'library' . Still i doubt your Ca hypothesis is correct. If youre interested in a scientific explanation use some science e.g. soil test.

****tap of 150 ppm, ~50ppm Ca is same as my urban tap. Its not problematical H²O.
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
Looking good

Thanks!

Looking happy now.

Bro for 25$ you can KNOW whats up.

Carl Whitcomb is def an expert on container nursery practices i have one of his texts in my 'library' . Still i doubt your Ca hypothesis is correct. If youre interested in a scientific explanation use some science e.g. soil test.

****tap of 150 ppm, ~50ppm Ca is same as my urban tap. Its not problematical H²O.

Makes sense. I found a local lab and will send off a sample. How do you know how to interpret the results? (i.e. Do we really know exactly how much of each nutrient is required/ideal for cannabis?)

My suggestion, water by weight of the pot+plant when lifted. Only water when it feels light but dont let it dry out 100%, and water until extra water runs out the bottom.

I've been letting the pots fully dry out.. sometimes 4-5 days between watering (I thought that you MUST let the pots FULLY DRY before watering again, maybe not.) I will start to ensure water runs out the bottom as well, haven't been seeing that much.

Are there rough estimates of how much water per gallon of soil you should be using each watering? Or does that vary wildly depending on mix? Just trying to see if I'm way off.
 
chronic68

chronic68

391
93
Thanks!



Makes sense. I found a local lab and will send off a sample. How do you know how to interpret the results? (i.e. Do we really know exactly how much of each nutrient is required/ideal for cannabis?)



I've been letting the pots fully dry out.. sometimes 4-5 days between watering (I thought that you MUST let the pots FULLY DRY before watering again, maybe not.) I will start to ensure water runs out the bottom as well, haven't been seeing that much.

Are there rough estimates of how much water per gallon of soil you should be using each watering? Or does that vary wildly depending on mix? Just trying to see if I'm way off.
Water more. Theres not a set amount of water you should give. different plants drink different ammounts just fill it out till you find about where they should be if they look thirsty water them if they look like theyve had too much cut back.
 
testiclees

testiclees

230
63
Thanks!



Makes sense. I found a local lab and will send off a sample. How do you know how to interpret the results? (i.e. Do we really know exactly how much of each nutrient is required/ideal for cannabis?)



I've been letting the pots fully dry out.. sometimes 4-5 days between watering (I thought that you MUST let the pots FULLY DRY before watering again, maybe not.) I will start to ensure water runs out the bottom as well, haven't been seeing that much.

Are there rough estimates of how much water per gallon of soil you should be using each watering? Or does that vary wildly depending on mix? Just trying to see if I'm way off.

To learn about how to interpret a soil analysis just do some googling. IC has a few very in depth soil balancing threads. Most labs offer a little guidance on where you can make an improvement. There are subtle nutritional factors that make cannabis cultue different than other plants. But if your soil can grow a superb tomato or hops it can grow cannabis. There are also sited where you can plug in your analysis values and get a recommendation formulated by a program using Albrecht, Solomon, Astera and others.

http://soilanalyst.org/soil-analysi...lligent-gardener-growing-nutrient-dense-food/

Let you pots get light but not dry. You want to support as much biology as you can. Allowing the pots to dry might allow a bit more nutrient availability because pH changes between wet and dry states may influence the uptake of certain minerals However it will be at the expense of the soil biome which thrives under a more steady state scenario.

Plants are looking far happier now. Good work.
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
Water more. Theres not a set amount of water you should give. different plants drink different ammounts just fill it out till you find about where they should be if they look thirsty water them if they look like theyve had too much cut back.

Got it. Following your advice the past 3 waterings... pictures coming in the next post! I see an improvement again.

To learn about how to interpret a soil analysis just do some googling. IC has a few very in depth soil balancing threads. Most labs offer a little guidance on where you can make an improvement. There are subtle nutritional factors that make cannabis cultue different than other plants. But if your soil can grow a superb tomato or hops it can grow cannabis. There are also sited where you can plug in your analysis values and get a recommendation formulated by a program using Albrecht, Solomon, Astera and others.

http://soilanalyst.org/soil-analysi...lligent-gardener-growing-nutrient-dense-food/

Let you pots get light but not dry. You want to support as much biology as you can. Allowing the pots to dry might allow a bit more nutrient availability because pH changes between wet and dry states may influence the uptake of certain minerals However it will be at the expense of the soil biome which thrives under a more steady state scenario.

Plants are looking far happier now. Good work.

Great information. Thanks. Will keep the biome at a steady state, I can already tell the plants are happier when the soil doesn't completely dry out. It's as if it keeps the growth momentum going by catching the biome right before it gets too dry and adding more moisture to keep the environment, "tropical.."
 
Larry.G

Larry.G

31
33
Flowering, Day 10: And then there was one!
One male, one female. That's what left of the original 5 seeds I popped. Culled the male and now I can focus all my attention on this filthy little lady! Her smell is great, not skunky at all - it's fruity and floral, hope it stays that way. I'm not smelling any bubblegum scents yet, but we'll see.

New results - incorporated lots of thread advice:
I started watering more, ensuring a good runoff, and for the past three weeks I've fed with Better Organix (Veg and Amino, now Flower and Amino). She looks like the transplant to a larger root-maker pot plus the watering with a little feeding is making her very happy. Otherwise keeping temps at 75 day / 65 night, RH around 45. This entire grow I've tried to focus hard on keeping the environment stable.

I'm going to continue to try and control height with the SCROG netting but she's super dense, thick and bushy, not lanky so the SCROG seems like it's of limited value right now. I keep trying to get those branches as horizontal as possible but she wants to just sit fat and bush out.

One big surprise is that I've been able to crank the Cree LED lights up to ~90% and she keeps reaching and loving it. What a difference from when she was young and the intensity above 35% stunted her. I'm learning that these plants really do "harden off" and you have to treat them differently through different cycles of their life. I am around 45 wats/sqft at the canopy now and no signs of slowing.

One lovely girl, check her out and let me know your thoughts, will keep updating as we go.

Flower day 10 2


Flower day 10 1


Flower day 10 3
 
chronic68

chronic68

391
93
Flowering, Day 10: And then there was one!
One male, one female. That's what left of the original 5 seeds I popped. Culled the male and now I can focus all my attention on this filthy little lady! Her smell is great, not skunky at all - it's fruity and floral, hope it stays that way. I'm not smelling any bubblegum scents yet, but we'll see.

New results - incorporated lots of thread advice:
I started watering more, ensuring a good runoff, and for the past three weeks I've fed with Better Organix (Veg and Amino, now Flower and Amino). She looks like the transplant to a larger root-maker pot plus the watering with a little feeding is making her very happy. Otherwise keeping temps at 75 day / 65 night, RH around 45. This entire grow I've tried to focus hard on keeping the environment stable.

I'm going to continue to try and control height with the SCROG netting but she's super dense, thick and bushy, not lanky so the SCROG seems like it's of limited value right now. I keep trying to get those branches as horizontal as possible but she wants to just sit fat and bush out.

One big surprise is that I've been able to crank the Cree LED lights up to ~90% and she keeps reaching and loving it. What a difference from when she was young and the intensity above 35% stunted her. I'm learning that these plants really do "harden off" and you have to treat them differently through different cycles of their life. I am around 45 wats/sqft at the canopy now and no signs of slowing.

One lovely girl, check her out and let me know your thoughts, will keep updating as we go.

View attachment 679323

View attachment 679322

View attachment 679324
Shes looking nice an healthy
 
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