Grow Room Electrical

[evu80]

always appreciate the advice guys.

I'll post better pictures in a few days.

the bottom panel is the existing panel that supplies 60 amps to the unit. I realized what you mean now by connecting the new sub panel via a 50 amp breaker. Power is supplied directly existing panel and the sub is piggy backing through a breaker. I get a clean connection as you said and I dont have to worry about copper and aluminum interacting together.

Is it wise to use a 60 amp breaker to match the supply since most of my usage is from the sub panel itself?

now to the aluminum and copper wire in the lug nuts. They were sliced a bit in order to get them fit together in the lugs. Should I cut the tip off and restrip them?

there is two older breakers in the existing panel one double pole and one single pole. The double pole is not connected to anything and the single pole lights up the rest of the unit's light fixtures.

On the sub panel it has one double 30 amp breaker for my titan lighting controller and 40 double pole for my DCP 7500. Also is two single pole breakers for misc outlets my friend wired for me.

In total, I got 2 (1k) for veg and 4 (1k) lights along with misc fans pump etcs.

One thing I dont follow is punching a hole through the dry wall and wiring a seal tite connector or the jumper cables?

 

[The Electrician]

You really didnt need the additional panel. You just need to correct breakers. You can get a quad 2pole breaker that has a 2Pole 40 with single 20amp breakers on the outside as well as a quad with a 2Pole 30 with single 20's on the outside. You would have had plenty of room. HB'S got you going in the right direction.

 

[evu80]

the whole reason why we got the extra panel was because we could not fit all of the breakers we needed. I wish I knew this info before we got started cause it wouldve saved me tons of money.

well now I know.

ok so whats my quickest fix? is it better to buy these breakers and wire everything to the existing panel? or to do what HB says.

I just want to be safe and up and running at 100% capacity asap

 

[ttystikk]

the whole reason why we got the extra panel was because we could not fit all of the breakers we needed. I wish I knew this info before we got started cause it wouldve saved me tons of money.

well now I know.

ok so whats my quickest fix? is it better to buy these breakers and wire everything to the existing panel? or to do what HB says.

I just want to be safe and up and running at 100% capacity asap

evu80, I feel your pain. Please take your time with this part of your setup and installation. It turns out that the single most dangerous part of an indoor growing op. is the electrical. I spoke to a firefighter a few years back- before MMJ got so big, even- and asked him if he'd ever been to a grow op. that had a fire. He said he'd been to several and they were ALL a direct result of faulty wiring.

I did some homework, and then did some more, and then bugged Olyver here and several others and made damned sure what I had planned was going to be safe and effective before I bought dime one worth of parts. It took me over a month, but the peace of mind is worth it. Everything fits, looks right, runs cool and meets- or in my case, even exceeds code requirements.

Last piece of advice; don't forget to safely wire everything on the outside of the plug, too- I see too many people with power strips sitting on the floor right next to their hydro setup. If water leaks and hits that, you've got all kind of problems from fire hazard and shock hazard to shorting out expensive gear.

 

[evu80]

this kind of set up is the first for me. The ones Ive seen or help set up ( mostly bitch work ) was much easier and hassle free and didnt involve Jerry rigging anything lol

I'm just glad I dont have to deal with connecting aluminum wires to copper wires. You're stories really scared me quite a bit.

 

[hiboy]

always appreciate the advice guys.

I'll post better pictures in a few days.

the bottom panel is the existing panel that supplies 60 amps to the unit. I realized what you mean now by connecting the new sub panel via a 50 amp breaker. Power is supplied directly existing panel and the sub is piggy backing through a breaker. I get a clean connection as you said and I dont have to worry about copper and aluminum interacting together.

Is it wise to use a 60 amp breaker to match the supply since most of my usage is from the sub panel itself?

now to the aluminum and copper wire in the lug nuts. They were sliced a bit in order to get them fit together in the lugs. Should I cut the tip off and restrip them?

there is two older breakers in the existing panel one double pole and one single pole. The double pole is not connected to anything and the single pole lights up the rest of the unit's light fixtures.

On the sub panel it has one double 30 amp breaker for my titan lighting controller and 40 double pole for my DCP 7500. Also is two single pole breakers for misc outlets my friend wired for me.

In total, I got 2 (1k) for veg and 4 (1k) lights along with misc fans pump etcs.

One thing I dont follow is punching a hole through the dry wall and wiring a seal tite connector or the jumper cables?

You can use that double pole breaker for everything if its at the right amperage. Its not wise to trim down wires to fit but it most likely wont do anything.
Like electrician said u can get a quad breaker its called and it puts out 4 lines of 120v, and u can get a quad that has the levers connected and then u have ur 2 pole breaker for your 240v. Then u could reroute your wire to your outlets to that quad breaker.
Murray makes a quad that should fit in there.
The reason you put a hole in your drywall is so the wires arent hanging out the front, they are inside and connected
hb

 

[hiboy]

Evo, since u already have the sub panel, and u have room to expand, i would keep the sub, but fix the wire that feeds it from the existing. Put the sub on a 50 amp breaker which the wire is rated for. Put the cover back on the existing panel and u should be good there. Make sure u tighten the breakers where the wires go enough, real snug, loose connections are bad there.
hb

 

[jyip]

whats up hiboy? my ac is still doin well after mesina alil last year, i still hafta do a few things like anbody else tho, i was trying to remember if you had the grey 55 chevy redone or a baby maybe ? lol or someone else here maybe? cool car regardless, my bro had a 54 in hi school,,,

 

[hiboy]

whats up hiboy? my ac is still doin well after mesina alil last year, i still hafta do a few things like anbody else tho, i was trying to remember if you had the grey 55 chevy redone or a baby maybe ? lol or someone else here maybe? cool car regardless, my bro had a 54 in hi school,,,

yes i have twins a boy and a girl 10 months old so you know what im doing all night... all night,,,, all night long ... all night.
Dont got any ol school cars, would like one though
hb

 

[ttystikk]

yes i have twins a boy and a girl 10 months old so you know what im doing all night... all night,,,, all night long ... all night.
Dont got any ol school cars, would like one though
hb

I've had a '65 Olds Cutlass convertible, a '68 AMX, a '66 Olds Starfire and a '68 Pontiac Firebird 400. I'm over the old school stuff. My next hot rod is gonna be a Subaru STi wagon. More horses, less weight, better mileage, all wheel drive- and I can be reasonably certain I will actually arrive at my destination every time! The perfect car for commuting to the ski slopes...

"Now, we return to your regularly scheduled thread content"

 

[ttystikk]

yes i have twins a boy and a girl 10 months old so you know what im doing all night... all night,,,, all night long ... all night.
Dont got any ol school cars, would like one though
hb

Quoted this because I take my family's safety seriously as my first priority, and you know what's that's about. So what just happened has me pissed and a lil worried:

Hiboy, or anyone knowlegable, I had a weird situation happen to me tonight. I have 100amp service to my house, and I took care to wire everything to the 80% rule; 'don't pull more than 80% of the rated max load through any given breaker.' Middle of the evening, the 100 amp main breaker at the meter popped; smelled hot when I went out there, and it wouldn't immediately reset.

I grabbed a flashlight and went through my whole crib with a hairy eyeball and followed my nose; I found... nothing. All my gear was within normal limits, main breaker warm but fine, wires cool to touch, ballasts warm but not hot, no evidence of arcing or shorting anywhere, everything was 5x5 in and out. This was AFTER my bloomroom had been on for an hour, and an hour AFTER we'd cooked dinner on the electric stove and used the oven simultaneously...

After 15 minutes, I reset the breaker and everything is up and running like nothing happened. I double-checked everything in the house with a plug, and still no suspects. o_O

So... WTF happened?? Any ideas? I worked hard to make damned sure I didn't do anything stupid or risky with my power, followed the advice of the pros here, and... well? My best guess is the 100amp breaker is 35 years old, just like the rest of the house, and decided it wasn't happy running at 80-85% of maximum. Wanted a coffee break, lol

 

[hiboy]

Quoted this because I take my family's safety seriously as my first priority, and you know what's that's about. So what just happened has me pissed and a lil worried:

Hiboy, or anyone knowlegable, I had a weird situation happen to me tonight. I have 100amp service to my house, and I took care to wire everything to the 80% rule; 'don't pull more than 80% of the rated max load through any given breaker.' Middle of the evening, the 100 amp main breaker at the meter popped; smelled hot when I went out there, and it wouldn't immediately reset.

I grabbed a flashlight and went through my whole crib with a hairy eyeball and followed my nose; I found... nothing. All my gear was within normal limits, main breaker warm but fine, wires cool to touch, ballasts warm but not hot, no evidence of arcing or shorting anywhere, everything was 5x5 in and out. This was AFTER my bloomroom had been on for an hour, and an hour AFTER we'd cooked dinner on the electric stove and used the oven simultaneously...

After 15 minutes, I reset the breaker and everything is up and running like nothing happened. I double-checked everything in the house with a plug, and still no suspects. o_O

So... WTF happened?? Any ideas? I worked hard to make damned sure I didn't do anything stupid or risky with my power, followed the advice of the pros here, and... well? My best guess is the 100amp breaker is 35 years old, just like the rest of the house, and decided it wasn't happy running at 80-85% of maximum. Wanted a coffee break, lol

You could be right about an old breaker, i would def. replace it, new is always better. I was going to say maybe u have an unbalanced load but since ur stove is 240v and most of your lights are also thats prob. not the problem. Then i thought maybe a surge upon start up but you said the room was already on for an hour. I hate the smell of burned electric whatever it might be, scarry stuff.
Def. replace breaker, it would be nice to read the amps going out of the main to see what ur at. Those testers are only a bill or so and def. worth having. Check ur buss bars when u pull out the main, make sure they look clean and not screwed up.
hb

 

[ttystikk]

You could be right about an old breaker, i would def. replace it, new is always better. I was going to say maybe u have an unbalanced load but since ur stove is 240v and most of your lights are also thats prob. not the problem. Then i thought maybe a surge upon start up but you said the room was already on for an hour. I hate the smell of burned electric whatever it might be, scarry stuff.
Def. replace breaker, it would be nice to read the amps going out of the main to see what ur at. Those testers are only a bill or so and def. worth having. Check ur buss bars when u pull out the main, make sure they look clean and not screwed up.
hb

The only things not on 240 are pumps, fans and timers. The breaker box outside next to the meter didn't smell 'burned', just hot and ionized.

I'm thinking that this is as much an indicator that I have things pretty well dialed in, powerwise, as anything else. If the oldest breaker in the house is the only thing that popped, then you're right- replacement is likely due.

Since it's the main outside service breaker, how do I isolate it to work on it? Is this when I call the utility and ask for them to do something? Is there another shutoff somewhere? How do I know exactly what brand and model of breaker to buy without opening that panel up while it's hot/connected?

I've also given some thought to going with 200 amp service, but I fear that may raise some eyebrows. Therefore, if/when I expand it will be via the 'flipbox' method; run another room out of phase with the one I have.

What I would like to do with this sort of setup is have some kind of delay relay built in, so that when it 'flips', I can have and control a scheduled delay, allowing me to run two rooms' lighting from 12 hours on down, in case I want to run longer nights. So for example, the timing might look like this: room A on for 11.5 hours, then 'flip'; but room B doesn't actually come on for 30 minutes. When Room B has run for 11.5 hours, it would 'flip' again, but the delay would then hold Room A off for 30 minutes. This adds up to 24 hours, gives the ballasts and such time to cool a bit- and saves me about 10% on my power bill. I would appreciate any ideas you have to help me set this up.

As always, your time and advice are much appreciated, hiboy- I look forward to the chance to return the favor sometime!

 

[hiboy]

The only things not on 240 are pumps, fans and timers. The breaker box outside next to the meter didn't smell 'burned', just hot and ionized.

I'm thinking that this is as much an indicator that I have things pretty well dialed in, powerwise, as anything else. If the oldest breaker in the house is the only thing that popped, then you're right- replacement is likely due.

Since it's the main outside service breaker, how do I isolate it to work on it? Is this when I call the utility and ask for them to do something? Is there another shutoff somewhere? How do I know exactly what brand and model of breaker to buy without opening that panel up while it's hot/connected?

I've also given some thought to going with 200 amp service, but I fear that may raise some eyebrows. Therefore, if/when I expand it will be via the 'flipbox' method; run another room out of phase with the one I have.

What I would like to do with this sort of setup is have some kind of delay relay built in, so that when it 'flips', I can have and control a scheduled delay, allowing me to run two rooms' lighting from 12 hours on down, in case I want to run longer nights. So for example, the timing might look like this: room A on for 11.5 hours, then 'flip'; but room B doesn't actually come on for 30 minutes. When Room B has run for 11.5 hours, it would 'flip' again, but the delay would then hold Room A off for 30 minutes. This adds up to 24 hours, gives the ballasts and such time to cool a bit- and saves me about 10% on my power bill. I would appreciate any ideas you have to help me set this up.

As always, your time and advice are much appreciated, hiboy- I look forward to the chance to return the favor sometime!

Yep for the main breaker change the meter has to be pulled. This is normal for most panels. The leads from the breaker go straight to the ouput of the meter. If it doesnt have a lock you could cut the clip on the meter ring which i normally do and just pull it out. Then ur safe to change the main. If you dont want to go that route you can call up your service provider, they will come and take off the clip, but most likely wont wait for you, so youll have no power till they return if you dont want to pop the meter back in. Its pretty easy to do though.
Glad i can help u out, i have good karma coming to me one day. About the delay thing, on a flip, let me put some thought into it, see if i can think of something with timers
hb

 

[ttystikk]

Yep for the main breaker change the meter has to be pulled. This is normal for most panels. The leads from the breaker go straight to the ouput of the meter. If it doesnt have a lock you could cut the clip on the meter ring which i normally do and just pull it out. Then ur safe to change the main. If you dont want to go that route you can call up your service provider, they will come and take off the clip, but most likely wont wait for you, so youll have no power till they return if you dont want to pop the meter back in. Its pretty easy to do though.
Glad i can help u out, i have good karma coming to me one day. About the delay thing, on a flip, let me put some thought into it, see if i can think of something with timers
hb

As always, I appreciate the knowlege you share, brother. I confess to a healthy fear of getting the shit zapped outta me, so I take all the precautions. I've seen the videos where the high tension linemen are hanging off the side of a chopper, working on hot lines, and the thought makes my skin crawl! Those guys got balls of cold rolled 'insulated material', no way I could do that.

Will the utility get pissed at me if I cut the sealing clip and then notify them after I've swapped out the breaker? I'm not stealing power of course, just playin' it safe.

 

[hiboy]

As always, I appreciate the knowlege you share, brother. I confess to a healthy fear of getting the shit zapped outta me, so I take all the precautions. I've seen the videos where the high tension linemen are hanging off the side of a chopper, working on hot lines, and the thought makes my skin crawl! Those guys got balls of cold rolled 'insulated material', no way I could do that.

Will the utility get pissed at me if I cut the sealing clip and then notify them after I've swapped out the breaker? I'm not stealing power of course, just playin' it safe.

Ive never had an issue with it, of course others will say hell no dont do it . I would do it, its only a clip, and u can kinda put it back on. Your not stealing power so what can they say if anything. Only a meter reader will be looking at your panel in the future, and they dont know jack. And if you dont like them coming on your property where ur panel is you can request a meter that they can read from the street. You can tell them ur putting a dog run in or something. They normally just say ok no problem
hb

 

[ttystikk]

Ive never had an issue with it, of course others will say hell no dont do it . I would do it, its only a clip, and u can kinda put it back on. Your not stealing power so what can they say if anything. Only a meter reader will be looking at your panel in the future, and they dont know jack. And if you dont like them coming on your property where ur panel is you can request a meter that they can read from the street. You can tell them ur putting a dog run in or something. They normally just say ok no problem
hb

I would just straight up tell them what I'm doing, so there's no question. It's legit to change a 35 year old breaker that's misbehaving. My dad, with 20+ years in with da Feds, told me; only play secrecy games when you need to.

 

[hiboy]

what's up brother.. it's been a while. hope you and the family are doing well.

i've got a place now that was just wired up with 200 amps today. everything went smooth except at the meter. the service wire was so large compared to the wire that was in there (60 amp main panel originally), that we had to drill a larger hole in the meter, and then the wire wouldn't fit into the legs, so we had to unravel some of the wire to screw it in, then tried to tie it off at the top.

my guy says he's going to buy some proper electrical clamps or some shit, and that i should probably go to edison to get a larger meter box, assuming they'd give me one. what do you think bro? thanks.
cheech, Today at

 

[hiboy]

what's up brother.. it's been a while. hope you and the family are doing well.

i've got a place now that was just wired up with 200 amps today. everything went smooth except at the meter. the service wire was so large compared to the wire that was in there (60 amp main panel originally), that we had to drill a larger hole in the meter, and then the wire wouldn't fit into the legs, so we had to unravel some of the wire to screw it in, then tried to tie it off at the top.
all is well thanks,
twins keep u busy... specially running a company
I have a thread for electrical questions but i'll answer ya here best i can
if u installed a new 200 amp panel code is for 2/0 wire, not # 2 but 2/0 and that wire is about the size of your thumb almost. Are u sure a 200 amp panel was installed, meters just plug into the open slots of the ring of the panel , the wire goes to the lug bolts that are factory built into the panel, and they are large lugs
hb
Live long and prosper
my guy says he's going to buy some proper electrical clamps or some shit, and that i should probably go to edison to get a larger meter box, assuming they'd give me one. what do you think bro? thanks.
cheech, Today at

 

[ttystikk]

Ive never had an issue with it, of course others will say hell no dont do it . I would do it, its only a clip, and u can kinda put it back on. Your not stealing power so what can they say if anything. Only a meter reader will be looking at your panel in the future, and they dont know jack. And if you dont like them coming on your property where ur panel is you can request a meter that they can read from the street. You can tell them ur putting a dog run in or something. They normally just say ok no problem
hb

The other holdup at this point is knowing exactly what model of breaker it is. The panel says square D, but I don't dare open it up hot.

Another question for you; I'm thinking of investing in a new type of lighting system that uses 400v to light the bulbs- Gavita Proline digital ballast, exclusively for the new Philips Greenpower 1000 DE HPS bulb, if anyone's interested. Do I need any sort of special flipbox, if I decide to go this route? I'm aware that ballasts conforming to ANSI S52 for normal HID run at 250v- just want to be safe, as always.