mangled, deformed and twisted leaves

[Stumpy]

Hi guys. This is my 3rd grow and i'm having some concerns about my babies with deformed leaves growing

My first grow was with a clone someone gave to me. My second grow was with seeds I bought. They were not sexed, so I had to flower them to find out what their sex was. Once I identified the females, I created 4 clones from the healthiest looking female, but those clones started growing with deformities. Some of the leaves only had growth on one side of the vein, or if there was growth on both sides, one side would be all shriveled-up and rotten looking. Not knowing what to do, I killed 3 of the 4 clones. One of them looked fine and from the one (still healthy mother) I created another 4 new clones. BUT NOW... they are all having this problem, so it seems to be spreading.

I started-off using a small amount of Advanced Nutrients' Grow with pH Balance, but then when I started seeing the problem, I stopped using nutrients since i was worried that it was a over feeding problem... but now that I've flushed the plants and the problem is still showing with the new growth, now I'm thinking I have a real problem.

I'm pretty sure the pH of the dirt and the water is fine. I tested my tap water and it's at about a 6. I tried nuts and i tried no nuts. Please help... pictures are attached.

To sum-up the survey below.. i use advanced nutrients because i worry about the pH. The pH of my water is high, like 7.7, the pH of my dirt is the same, but I was told that with Advanced Nutrients, it doesn't matter what the pH of your water is… Am i wrong? If not, is there an easy way to lower the pH of my water… ?

The survey for Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Clones, from a flowering plants (approx 2 wks into flowering)
2. How old are your plants? 8+ wks mother & clones of about 4 wks (problem is spread)
3. How tall are your plants? 8+ wk old is about 2 1/2 feet & 4 wk old is about 7 inches
4. What size containers are they planted in? 3 liters & dixie cups
5. What is your soil mix? Pro-mix (with Moisture Control), sheep manure and worm castings.
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use? Tap water
7. What is the pH of your water? pH is about a 7.5
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio? Advanced Nutrients because i worry about pH all the time.
9. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? No
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights"): Combination of T5 Fluorescent and CFL
11. How close are your lights to the plants? Meh… cuz everything is in veg right now, it's all in the same room, the lights are set to be just about 3 or 4 inches from the 2 foot tall plant, the light are about 2 feet from the shorter plants.
12. What size is your grow space in square feet? 2 x 4
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? 30C or 86F and humidity is 40%
14. What is the pH of the soil? it's high @ 7.7
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? No.
16. How much experience do you have growing? not much… 3rd grow

- 4 wk old clones showing twisting and deformations. All clones are similar.

-Leaf with growth on only one side of the vein (on right); and on the same leaf rotten growth on one side of the vein (on left).

-Another leaf with growth on only one side of vien.

-You can see multiple effected areas... Twisting and deformation through-out mother plant (8wk old)... Only started this a while ago.

-Just a bunch more of the same problem.

 

[Stumpy]

Sorry.. correction.. I said "I'm pretty sure the pH of the dirt and the water is fine. I tested my tap water and it's at about a 6." Sorry... that's wrong. I tested it and it is high... about 7.7.

I know everybody is going to say that's the problem,... but is that REALLY the problem? i haven't changed anything and this just started lately.

 

[frebo]

Sorry.. correction.. I said "I'm pretty sure the pH of the dirt and the water is fine. I tested my tap water and it's at about a 6." Sorry... that's wrong. I tested it and it is high... about 7.7.

I know everybody is going to say that's the problem,... but is that REALLY the problem? i haven't changed anything and this just started lately.

Was that sheep manure too fresh? I have a more twisted problem than that growing outside. My soil PH was over 7 and I had added horse manure that was les than a year old. Most are back to normal but a few are budding right through twisted leaves. I have used lime juice, vinegar and battery acid in my water to lower PH but hasn't dropped that much. someone help us both

 

[Stumpy]

Was that sheep manure too fresh? I have a more twisted problem than that growing outside. My soil PH was over 7 and I had added horse manure that was les than a year old. Most are back to normal but a few are budding right through twisted leaves. I have used lime juice, vinegar and battery acid in my water to lower PH but hasn't dropped that much. someone help us bothView attachment 339702 View attachment 339704

I'm not sure, but your problem looks different. Your leaves are curling inwardly like a cone.. i've heard this is a nutrient deficiency... Sulfer maybe? My plant isn't doing that. My plant is twisting yes, but it's also showing no growth on one side of the vien.. it's weird. Maybe it is the same.. i dunno.

 

[frebo]

I'm not sure, but your problem looks different. Your leaves are curling inwardly like a cone.. i've heard this is a nutrient deficiency... Sulfer maybe? My plant isn't doing that. My plant is twisting yes, but it's also showing no growth on one side of the vien.. it's weird. Maybe it is the same.. i dunno.

Looking again at your pics, I have had that. It's almost like what we call three leafing, caused by starting to flower and then reverting to grow. I have seen other turned leaves like that early, to midway through the grow. I thought they were kinda cool. They grew out of it. It is probably a deficiency or too much of something but it doesn't look that serious to me.
I use magnesium sulfate with my nutrients. I also used an enzyne to promote soil action with too hot horse shit. Is that my problem? SO SOMEBODY PLEASE, HELP US

 

[Seamaiden]

Stumpy, that twisting is typically associated with pH being out of range. Cannabis should be considered an acid-loving plant, soil pH in the range of 6.5-6.8. You need to get that water pH lower, I'd push it down to 6 for now.


Frebo's got you on the odd leaf lobe count, it's basically hormonal confusion, as hormones are what controls phases of growth (vegetative vs regenerative, aka flowering).


Frebo, I've skimmed your post, are the plants growing out of the twisting now that you're adjusting pH downward? If not, I would get a really good scope and take a very close look at those leaves, because that degree of shriveling, twisting and crinkling is not something I have seen when pH is out of range. Honestly, it's making me think of the photos of plants infested with broad or russet mites to me (russet mites create a rust-colored coating that looks like mold--it's not mold, it's mites).

Have I hit all points..?

 

[frebo]

Stumpy, that twisting is typically associated with pH being out of range. Cannabis should be considered an acid-loving plant, soil pH in the range of 6.5-6.8. You need to get that water pH lower, I'd push it down to 6 for now.


Frebo's got you on the odd leaf lobe count, it's basically hormonal confusion, as hormones are what controls phases of growth (vegetative vs regenerative, aka flowering).


Frebo, I've skimmed your post, are the plants growing out of the twisting now that you're adjusting pH downward? If not, I would get a really good scope and take a very close look at those leaves, because that degree of shriveling, twisting and crinkling is not something I have seen when pH is out of range. Honestly, it's making me think of the photos of plants infested with broad or russet mites to me (russet mites create a rust-colored coating that looks like mold--it's not mold, it's mites).

Have I hit all points..?

Thank you Ms. Maiden. I searched
Google for "broad mites" and they do a lot le that but I am not seeing the coating like mold. My scope is at least five years old and batteries weak. Going to get new one today. This has been going on for two months and did not stop growing or flowering. I will get back to you. Thank you

 

[DO IT]

I think it might be genetic stumpy. You said your first shot was with clones and it went well right?? then your second was with some seeds you bought, what strain did you buy?? I did some crosses and then i did a back cross and got some of the same thing and even an albino trait came out. check the pic

 

[Stumpy]

I think it might be genetic stumpy. You said your first shot was with clones and it went well right?? then your second was with some seeds you bought, what strain did you buy?? I did some crosses and then i did a back cross and got some of the same thing and even an albino trait came out. check the pic

That's exactly what my plants look like, DO IT. I tend to think it may be genetic, some symptoms could be pH, but I have a feeling there's a genetic trait that's getting magnified when I'm taking my cuttings. hmm. I hope not. I don't want to start over from seed again.
- They started out from Black Russian (AK47+Blackberry) seeds.

 

[DO IT]

That pic is a back cross I did and I'm thinking the inbreeding is what did that. The reason I kept that Lil one is b/c off the albino thing.

 

[DO IT]

i did some reading and if the strain you got is black russian it is a cross between white russian and black dominia. I read it was a stable hybrid but i have bought seeds that said they where stable and the where not. I know its not good news but you might want to try and get some cuts from some1 and keep 1 for a mom if the strain works out for you. then you can start ordering seeds and experimenting with new strains. GL

 

[Stumpy]

No.. it got a different version of Black Russian. If you search "Black Russian AK47+Blackberry" you'll find SOME information about it. I wanted to try this rare seed to see what the results would be. I brought one crop to flower and I have some buddies growing it outside and they are getting some fantastic results.
I'm trying to lower my pH to see if that help. Otherwise, I might just start-over with a new seed.

 

[DO IT]

Hace your buddies shoot you some cuts if there's are not shoeing those abnormalities.

 

[Stumpy]

i'm not sure now is the best time to get a cutting, they would be in full flower right now; near harvest. Do you think i could?

 

[organicozarks]

Broad mites. You have to use a microscope to see them. 400x will work. OGBIOWAR Foliar pack will get rid of them, but if you have access to new cuts it is safer to get new ones, and spray them. Once the broad mites inject their toxin some plants never bounce back, Some take a year to bounce back, and some bounce back right away. They are becoming an epidemic.

 

[Seamaiden]

i'm not sure now is the best time to get a cutting, they would be in full flower right now; near harvest. Do you think i could?

It's now or never, Stumps.

Broad mites. You have to use a microscope to see them. 400x will work. OGBIOWAR Foliar pack will get rid of them, but if you have access to new cuts it is safer to get new ones, and spray them. Once the broad mites inject their toxin some plants never bounce back, Some take a year to bounce back, and some bounce back right away. They are becoming an epidemic.

Oh wow, I've been recommending a minimum of 100x, but 400x is microscopy!

 

[Warrioreuel]

Stumpy, I have had several grows now and my experience is as follows. Three different times I had weirdness going on and all 3 times I tried to blame it on nutrients, PH, lighting, heating etc.. For me, every single time the underlying cause was pests. I had fungus gnats once - cured that, then next grow had spider mites -cured that, then next grow had Cyclamen mites - cured that. In some of your first pictures I can see in the back ground leaves that display mite damage. Cyclamen mites are not visible unless you have a really good scope. Spider mites and Broad mites can easily be seen with naked eye or a cheap 10x loop or similar. My advice is start looking at cures for mites and/or gnats. Left unchecked your leaves will get very crispy, and a combination of yellowish/brownish/blackish. This is a little late of a response as you may have already cured your problem by now. Good luck.

 

[WynterRye]

That is caused by an insect. If you are growing inside its a mite or trip. Outside it is a mite aphid or gnat. Something is sucking your plants dry.

 

[neverbreak]

Broad mites. You have to use a microscope to see them. 400x will work. OGBIOWAR Foliar pack will get rid of them, but if you have access to new cuts it is safer to get new ones, and spray them. Once the broad mites inject their toxin some plants never bounce back, Some take a year to bounce back, and some bounce back right away. They are becoming an epidemic.

400x, seriously? that's gotta be a compound microscope. how would ya use that for mites?

neverbreak

 

[JuggaloJames]

What Warioreuel said... I'm on my 1st grow, started with 6 bagseed from dro. Germinated 6 seeds, got pulled away, checked em on the third day, 5 seeds sprouted about 2inches long root on the seed, #6 didn't sprout. Bought soil from the $1 store, big mistake... A cloth started pot not very big and planted my 5. Over watered them, for a few days I developed the idea, let's put em outside during the day, bring em in at night. Well inside one night I noticed the soil gnats, had been over watering, on top of the extreme heat outside(Tx). So I killed the gnats, added extra drainage, soil dried out. Came home seen what looked like a spider hanging from a leaf on a web, killed that spider mite and a couple more, moved the plants, by this time I'm down to 4, and nice green leaves, 3rd set, but older leaves had tiny Brown holes almost needle size but looked like tiny cigarette burns. A couple days later, came home and looked like a leaves top skin was eaten off, the leaf was there but looked like a window's screen, started looking, under the leaf caterpillar... killed it, day or so later, plant yellowed, so I pulled it. Now theres 3, 2 looking good sprouting 4th set of leaves, 3rd stated at the veins working out on 2nd set of leaves, 1st set were original sprout leaves, already wilted away. Next day yellowed worse up to 3rd set, and another sprouts 2nd set Turner full yellow. Next day the top set had yellowed and was experiencing a brownish purple coming from the veins out. Transplanted the remaining 3 to a gallon jug with ffof I had ordered off line. So, I had 1-1/2 yellowed sprout, 1-completely all yellowed leaves with top leaves turning brownish purple, and one healthy looking green sprout, has 4 sets of leaves now, very small stalk. So today they are almost 3-4 weeks. Now top leaves are completely brownish yellow. Pulled that 1, and the yellowed sprout is experiencing the same brownish purple to top leaves, topped it while it was yellowed, well today there are corkscrew leaves coming out of the top, as well as where I thought what where male pollen sacks... the green sprout is now yellowing WTF...?