(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

[ilikecheetoes]

lol

 

[leadsled]

leads it don't work for me

DOWH, Forgot to mention to add back the periods. Link is now working via cheetoes.

 

[leadsled]

All these canna forums seem to do that, I attribute it to paranoia rather than a desire to not share information in the information age. Spurr has gone by a few names, too.

It is for security reasons. When you link to another site it shows that in the log files. Another reason is to prevent linking images from other domains. Another security risk...

 

[shaggyballs]

Advanced Nutrients Proprietary Blend of Blooming Co-Factor Plant Extracts

Anyone know what they are referring to.






connoisseur a

connoisseur b

 

[Seamaiden]

Cogos, if you know about these chem salt fertilizers, then you know that there are cheap forms and expensive forms, I'll use DAP vs MAP as a good example, and I'm going to assume that you know exactly what I mean when I mention DAP/MAP.

I won't argue with you about AN, they're expensive as hell and mostly marketing in my opinion.

But you're not winning many people over by coming in here and basically stomping all around the place. If that's your goal (to troll) then we mods will help you along. If it's not, I've got to ask you again to use a different approach and make it far less confrontational than you've been using.

And I hadn't noticed that shaggyballs had made it over here.

 

[squarepusher]

Advanced Nutrients Proprietary Blend of Blooming Co-Factor Plant Extracts

Anyone know what they are referring to.






connoisseur a

View attachment 277635

connoisseur b


View attachment 277636

No, it could be anything really, but I'm not all sure how effective it would be if I haven't already heard of it before. There are a few big ones, like kelp and alfalfa.

 

[squarepusher]

hi can anybody tell me if my(( grow big soil))((foxfarm)) is ok for hydro setup .thanks

Hello bestnugzzz, Grow Big soil will not be suitable for hydroponics, due to insufficient nitrate, they have a separate product for hydro if you use their brand.

 

[2broke2smoke]

anyone got a formula for DIY potassium silicate?

2b2s

 

[Crysmatic]

agsil 16h
https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...oducts_id=68&zenid=t2ne3mhfpobki98mtohkon59g7

32.4% K2O, 52.8% SiO2
0.203 g/L is 50 ppm Si, 30.7 ppm K
Agsil 21 (liquid) 12.7% K2O, 26.5% SiO2
0.404 g/L 50 ppm Si, 24 ppm K
To sum up the pdf article: it is not critical, but it's beneficial. It states than 100 ppm of SiO2 is the point of diminishing returns in ROSE crops. It doesn't increase yield, per se, it reduces the impact on yield due to fungus. Cucumbers max out at 50 ppm SiO2. I've seen commercial greenhouses that use 0-7 ppm Si for tomatoes. I wouldn't hesitate to suggest 25 ppm Si max.

agsil skews pH; agsil 21 is a liquid with a pH of 11.7! Spurr never compensated for agsil's alkalinity...and he uses a lot!

 

[Seamaiden]

Crysmatic..! It's been a while since I've seen you post, brother. :D And you always bring solid info, thanks. You still in touch with spurr, by any chance?

 

[2broke2smoke]

Hey crysmatic thanks for the speedy answer. Very much apprecited.

2b2s

 

[Crysmatic]

Crysmatic..! It's been a while since I've seen you post, brother. :D And you always bring solid info, thanks. You still in touch with spurr, by any chance?

Thanks Seamaiden! I've been lurking for a while. I haven't had anything new or significant to contribute until recently. I've never been in touch with Spurr. I saw his info in this thread, and started looking further into it. Some looks good, other looks iffy.

I've been looking into commercial greenhouses a lot. Fatman's original formula looks a lot like tomato fertilizer...which may not be a bad thing. A greenhouse has to keep its plants healthy for 10 months. We can get away with a shit load in an 8 week cycle.

from Grodan's 6 phase article 5:
N 288 (0.31% NH4+)
P 68
K 274
Ca 309
Mg 53
S 51
Fe 0.95
B 0.90
Mn 0.66
Zn 0.78
Cu 0.10
Si 7

A calyx is a modified leaf. The above 2.88-1.56-3.30-3.1-0.5 is a fruiting formula, so why would we need even more more P than that?

fwiw, Greenhouses run recirculating systems, and amend their reservoir weekly. They use 0.31% NH4+, and they don't use the carbonate/citric acid buffer complex. They don't worry about pH drift. So why does Spurr insist that 33% NH4+ and the buffers is the only way to go?

 

[squarepusher]

Thanks Seamaiden! I've been lurking for a while. I haven't had anything new or significant to contribute until recently. I've never been in touch with Spurr. I saw his info in this thread, and started looking further into it. Some looks good, other looks iffy.

I've been looking into commercial greenhouses a lot. Fatman's original formula looks a lot like tomato fertilizer...which may not be a bad thing. A greenhouse has to keep its plants healthy for 10 months. We can get away with a shit load in an 8 week cycle.

from Grodan's 6 phase article 5:
N 288 (0.31% NH4+)
P 68
K 274
Ca 309
Mg 53
S 51
Fe 0.95
B 0.90
Mn 0.66
Zn 0.78
Cu 0.10
Si 7

A calyx is a modified leaf. The above 2.88-1.56-3.30-3.1-0.5 is a fruiting formula, so why would we need even more more P than that?

fwiw, Greenhouses run recirculating systems, and amend their reservoir weekly. They use 0.31% NH4+, and they don't use the carbonate/citric acid buffer complex. They don't worry about pH drift. So why does Spurr insist that 33% NH4+ and the buffers is the only way to go?

that looks high in Ca, also do you mean .31% NH4 as N 288 No3 277 NH4 1 ? Or did you mean 31% like NO3 199 NH4 89?

 

[Seamaiden]

I can't answer why spurr insists on the parameters he does, but I betcha he's got a paper or papers somewhere that would back him up. That's not to say he's always right, but he always brings interesting information to the table. He's also managed to get himself banned from every site I've been a member of.

 

[Crysmatic]

My bad. I meant 3.1% of total N. ie 279 ppm NO3- and 9 ppm NH4+.

I'm not saying that 33% NH4 doesn't buffer as Spurr claims. I just observed that greenhouse growers don't seem to mind pH drift on a weekly basis. Tomatoes aren't a cash crop - and they've been thoroughly researched. If it increased profits they'd do it.

 

[squarepusher]

My bad. I meant 3.1% of total N. ie 279 ppm NO3- and 9 ppm NH4+.

I'm not saying that 33% NH4 doesn't buffer as Spurr claims. I just observed that greenhouse growers don't seem to mind pH drift on a weekly basis. Tomatoes aren't a cash crop - and they've been thoroughly researched. If it increased profits they'd do it.

OK I understand. In this case I think it is fairly difficult to get that low NH4, since you will either have to start using possibly nitric acid, sodium nitrate, copper nitrate things that usually are fairly uncommon. I haven't looked too much into this, normal Hydroponic nutrients are usually around 8-13% if I recall, which is 2-4x the values that Spurr recommends.

 

[Crysmatic]

Not at all. Calcium nitrate has 0% ammonium. Greenhouse grade calnit has ~6.5% (it's a double salt of calnit and ammonium nit). Avoid ammonium phosphates, or ammonium nitrate - not that you necessarily have to. Ammonium nitrate is horribly hygroscopic...so if you don't use it all quickly, it will make a pool of water! (wiki says 59.4% rH is the threshold) Try to measure out anything after that.

2x-4x is 20% - 33% ammonium (80%/20% = 4x). Daniel put an upper limit of 10-15% (nitrate is 6x-9x ammonium). iirc, Daniel's explanation was that nitrate is immediately available to the plant, and more ammonium isn't beneficial in hydro (i.e. buffering).

perhaps greenhouses have such massive reservoirs, that even 200k plants don't swing the pH significantly. I'll look more into that.

 

[squarepusher]

Not at all. Calcium nitrate has 0% ammonium. Greenhouse grade calnit has ~6.5% (it's a double salt of calnit and ammonium nit). Avoid ammonium phosphates, or ammonium nitrate - not that you necessarily have to. Ammonium nitrate is horribly hygroscopic...so if you don't use it all quickly, it will make a pool of water! (wiki says 59.4% rH is the threshold) Try to measure out anything after that.

2x-4x is 20% - 33% ammonium (80%/20% = 4x). Daniel put an upper limit of 10-15% (nitrate is 6x-9x ammonium). iirc, Daniel's explanation was that nitrate is immediately available to the plant, and more ammonium isn't beneficial in hydro (i.e. buffering).

perhaps greenhouses have such massive reservoirs, that even 200k plants don't swing the pH significantly. I'll look more into that.

here is the article

http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2009/02/nitrogen-fertilization-in-hydroponics.html

According to Daniel, NH4 can be absorbed too quickly in hydroponics, due to lack of bacteria to break down NH4 -> NO3, buildup can be toxic. NO3 does not suffer the issue of being absorbed too quickly. In sterile hydroponics this is true, but I wonder in real world rockwool/coco/DWC to what extent nitrifying bacteria are present and what activity they have. Especially if you supplement with a beneficial like Cap's products I'm sure there are some action of nitrifying bacteria.

Of course in sterile hydroponics where all bacteria are actively killed (like by use of chlorine or H2O2) we can expect 0% conversion.

 

[SuperCan]

Advanced Nutrients Proprietary Blend of Blooming Co-Factor Plant Extracts

Anyone know what they are referring to.






connoisseur a

View attachment 277635

connoisseur b


View attachment 277636

Cofactors are usually ions that proteins need to function properly. A good example is the iron ion which is in the heme group in the protein hemoglobin. This iron ion is what binds the oxygen to the protein allowing us to respirate. Almost all transition metals are cofactors for at least on protein. Cobalt, boron, magnesium, molybdenum, boron, et cetera. Molybdenum is especially important for us as it's been shown that it is a cofactor of THC Synthase which is one of the proteins responsible for producing THC in cannabis. Enzymes which require cofactors do not work without them. Vitamins can also be cofactors.

 

[icemaiden]

im not sure about clearex, but there some peep i saw on ebay who sells humic/root fungus in bulk for pretty cheap if you wanted to add those.

I'm actually working on my own nutrient line, to basically just copy big name formulas and sell them in bulk for a big discount to try to win some customers for anyone who doesn't want to be bothered mixing themselves, but doesn't want to pay out the rearend. Well see how it goes in the next several weeks, I've reverse engineered tons of formulas lately, if anyone wants help on any of the process let me know I'll try to help

Hi
i recently went out and bought trace elements premix from plant prod and all the salts to mix myh own Im a med grower for myself and fighting to get my canada dissability so money is a great concern. Ive been reading different recipes and forums and with my dystonia symptoms that worsen when my body is at rest it is next to impossible for me to sit and read and read through the forums You and crysmatic have so much out there on mixing your own and kodos to yas I wish I didnt have this damn disease because id be there with ya all and up to my ears in formulas and trials and tribulations however unfortunatly i can no longer do that. I was trying to figure out how to mix my own a and b of sensi or condisour with all the additves for which ever a and b stock solution for both veg and bloom. If you guys can hook a gal up with a easy to follow recipe and directions for a and b base for veg and grow and an easy directions for the additives for said base or email me the direct links its posted on as ive tried reading threw the forums psotings and my body simply wont allow me to sift through pages and pages without my symptoms getting in the way you would be helping a gal out more than you ll ever know