Non Hydro Trees.

[Theoneandonly Z]

non hydro tree

*a diesel cut that ran around the pnw known as "purple diesel" at the time. @5-6 weeks
Note: those are the bigger stakes, plant stood 6'+, used 1000ws, 7 gal root pots, 80% Sunshine #4 20% Ocean Forest + perlite. hand watered each FWFW

Grow TreeZ!

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I agree with the veg time, if you can not veg 2.5 -3 months you would not be having any weight to play with. A chow grow under your belt could help you decide. I ran aeration in my last all chow 20 gal cans. I had 2 plus plants of mcfly on their first run.

 

[true grit]

The only problem I have with organic soil or even coco trees. Veg time takes way to long. Properly dialed hydro can hit similar numbers in a 1/4 of the time (veg)

I agree with the veg time, if you can not veg 2.5 -3 months you would not be having any weight to play with. A chow grow under your belt could help you decide. I ran aeration in my last all chow 20 gal cans. I had 2 plus plants of mcfly on their first run.

While I totally agree on veg time vs hydro and it taking significantly longer for some folks thats a normal veg time. In interest of lower numbers i generally give plants a full bloom cycle to veg. Thats why i was asking about big kush bushes or something of the sort. 8-9wk veg on a bubba or something similar seems it could have a decent bush ready to produce.

So seems to be a consensus that 1+ can be had soil/organic but to push that 2 mark and look for consistency a chow mix/coco mix of sorts would be needed. Maybe a nice modified super soil mix with coco is in my future.

 

[ttystikk]

I've never grown anything this big yet, in any medium. Veg longer, and light from all sides, that's the basic recipe?

 

[We Solidarity]

I know lots of guys out here pumping it out in 25 gallon smart pots filled with coco, always pretty incredible quality. Starting to see lots of really inventive manicuring/understorying techniques too. It seems the sours, og, headband, all those lanky stretchy strains do pretty well in a big pot, I see more sour d grown tree-style than anything else. Def seen lots of tree growers hitting 2+ a light out here, really makin those 6 plants count haha

 

[Capulator]

The only problem I have with organic soil or even coco trees. Veg time takes way to long. Properly dialed hydro can hit similar numbers in a 1/4 of the time (veg)

what about a 70/30 perlite soil... I wonder if that would be comparable to a hydro grow.

 

[ttystikk]

what about a 70/30 perlite soil... I wonder if that would be comparable to a hydro grow.

I keep hearing that people who've done comparisons said that fine coco mixed with hydroton in a chow mix was better than other mixes tried. I was not one of these, but I can say this stuff does kick ass and I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[true grit]

Dont get me wrong We Solidarity, coco quality can be stellar. I was not upset with the quality i was getting for over a year or two running it but it simply wasn't the quality of proper soil organics IMO...and about everyone else whos smoked em too.
25g pots seems pretty huge for potting as well. I can def see hittin 2lb plants in coco, cuz its more like hydro as far as aeration for roots compared to soil and might have to be where i go with it to consistently pop 2 a tree if thats possible with right ones.

@Cap- I was thinking like 50% soil, 25/25 coco/perlite. I already put in about 10-15% coco in my beds and a good 10% perlite so i'd just be expanding a hair on that without messing with ph levels etc for coco.

 

[indogro]

Hello tree farmers. Very inspired by this new method.

It seems almost everyone is using some sort of coco mix, or hydro. I am accustomed to using 100% Sunshine #4 mix, and always have great results, but I have not grown trees. Just the normal method of 9 per light in 5 gallon pots.

Is the only setback to using #4 mix a slower veg time? If I have the ability to veg in a proper space and the time to do it (6-8 weeks), is there any reason to not use this medium? I would still veg the plants till they "fill the cage" as they say.

What would be the benefits to incorporating coco and/or more perlite to the mix? I would like to grow trees that yield at least 1.5#, but ideally 2#+.

Can anyone give me a reason to not use the #4 and switch to coco? Will I use significantly more water with coco? I love the forgiving nature of #4, which works for me and my setup, but am open to new methods.

I will be using plenty of light on all 4 sides of the tree. I have everything worked out except the medium. The only trees without full light will be the ones in the corners, but I plan to turn them everyday in order to keep them even. The plan is to use 10gal. brute containers on wheels, drain to waste on the floor through a drain. anyone tried this?

Thank you in advance.​

 

[true grit]

I'm not sure the only set back is just veg time, honestly seems as though soil/sunshine etc don't have quite the aeration in the roots needed to always blast out equivalent to hydro. Not saying it won't happen with enough veg time, light, and dialed mix just saying from my experience vs. coco even.

And yes as I put earlier i think adding a good chunk of coco/perlite for that added aeration will definitely help. But question is at what point, might you just as well be doing coco or chow mix?

To hit 1.5-2 per Im betting you'll need a bit bigger than 10g. Im thinking ill prob use 10-15g depending on what kinda plant it is. I often use 7g pots now when i do multiple per bed over head and even dropping 8-9oz per i have to water that 7g heavy everyday.

 

[indogro]

Thank you for the reply True Grit.

So If my goals are 2+ a plant, you would recommend a chow mix or similar in a 15-20 gal pot? the plants will have a 1k on all 4 sides. I believe most here do a 7Gal pot.

I have never used coco, so I should say I'm a little intimidated, but I'm assuming it's easier than I think to deal with. I hand water currently, and like the ability to get to know each plants water usage. In coco, I assume I would want an automatic drip setup? I'll try to find some more info on coco growing as well.

Is there a chow or coco mix that's great right out of the bag that you or anyone here would recommend?

And anyone have a link to those slow rotating tables?

 

[Capulator]

rotating a large tree is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Thank you for the reply True Grit.

So If my goals are 2+ a plant, you would recommend a chow mix or similar in a 15-20 gal pot? the plants will have a 1k on all 4 sides. I believe most here do a 7Gal pot.

I have never used coco, so I should say I'm a little intimidated, but I'm assuming it's easier than I think to deal with. I hand water currently, and like the ability to get to know each plants water usage. In coco, I assume I would want an automatic drip setup? I'll try to find some more info on coco growing as well.

Is there a chow or coco mix that's great right out of the bag that you or anyone here would recommend?

And anyone have a link to those slow rotating tables?

you can achieve 2lb/ per plant if dedicated to a single 1000W. its not easy and requires a good enviro.

In my garden (which is not the best by any means) i can achieve 1-1.5 lbs/ 600w light fixture consistently. I have been using 5 gal roots organic pots and a blend of sunshine #4 and coco based mediums. I like 60-70% sunshine #4 and 30-40% readygro aeration or moisutre(<a coco based grow medium with perlite, some ewc, humic, and others)

I dont like using sunshine #4 by itself for it holds too much water and hardens up funky towards the end of my cycles. i started using different types of coco to not only loosen it up, but to add more texture in my medium for my roots likings. I recommend using a blend of peat(sunshine) and coco before trying just coco. just my two centZ

i hand water as well, and have been very happy with my results!Z

 

[indogro]

you can achieve 2lb/ per plant if dedicated to a single 1000W. its not easy and requires a good enviro.

In my garden (which is not the best by any means) i can achieve 1-1.5 lbs/ 600w light fixture consistently. I have been using 5 gal roots organic pots and a blend of sunshine #4 and coco based mediums. I like 60-70% sunshine #4 and 30-40% readygro aeration or moisutre(<a coco based grow medium with perlite, some ewc, humic, and others)

I dont like using sunshine #4 by itself for it holds too much water and hardens up funky towards the end of my cycles. i started using different types of coco to not only loosen it up, but to add more texture in my medium for my roots likings. I recommend using a blend of peat(sunshine) and coco before trying just coco. just my two centZ

i hand water as well, and have been very happy with my results!Z

Thanks for the advice. Just so I understand correctly...

You are using the sunshine/coco mix in 5Gal roots pots and yielding 1.5per plant? You only have one 600w per plant? What is your layout like? How long do you veg with this peat/coco mix?

How often do you hand water? Right now I water every 3 days. Spot water on the 2nd day. I assume more often with the coco mixed in?

fyi...here is my proposed layout. the inner 6 are 1k's. the outer 10 are 750w. 13,500 total.

x x ​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x ​

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Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience.​

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[Theoneandonly Z]

Thanks for the advice. Just so I understand correctly...

You are using the sunshine/coco mix in 5Gal roots pots and yielding 1.5per plant? You only have one 600w per plant? What is your layout like? How long do you veg with this peat/coco mix?

How often do you hand water? Right now I water every 3 days. Spot water on the 2nd day. I assume more often with the coco mixed in?

fyi...here is my proposed layout. the inner 6 are 1k's. the outer 10 are 750w. 13,500 total.

x x ​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x ​

​

Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience.

​

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​

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i wish i was hitting 1.5 per plant with only 1 600W light! no i was saying i get 1.5lb per 600Ws of light(no matter how many plants). i have tried everything from one big tree to 12 small plants. ive learned that you are limited to the amount of light used, no matter how many plants you have. So with that said, im happy with 6 medium sized shrubs/trees under each 600W light. However i am using magnum XXXLs which allow a big light spread with a lack of penetration. so i control my canopy to make sure every part of the plant is receiving equal lighting. in a 9x8 room, with only 2 600 watt hps, i can hit over 3 #s regularly, sometimes more sometimes less. shit i just botched a crop and got 2.3 lbs which isnt bad for a fuck up.

DAMN! nice layout, for a second i thought you were gifting me a blunt full of hugs and kisses....

thats alot of light, should be growing some massive trees, easily 1.5+/tree

much luck
Z

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Thanks for the advice. Just so I understand correctly...

You are using the sunshine/coco mix in 5Gal roots pots and yielding 1.5per plant? You only have one 600w per plant? What is your layout like? How long do you veg with this peat/coco mix?

How often do you hand water? Right now I water every 3 days. Spot water on the 2nd day. I assume more often with the coco mixed in?

fyi...here is my proposed layout. the inner 6 are 1k's. the outer 10 are 750w. 13,500 total.

x x ​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x x x​

o o o​

x x ​

​

Thank you everyone for sharing your knowledge and experience.

​

​

​

​

damn i misread just a bit.
-yes im using a blend of sunshine and coco mix in 5 gal pots (most of the time, as of now im trying 7 gal vs 10 gal)
-no matter how many plants i have under 600 Watts, i can achieve on average and easy 1lb to 1.5 lbs. like i said above, im liking 6 plants under a 600W.
-I water anywhere from everyday or every other day. i judge the amount of water in my medium upon watering. when i do water, i do not strive for run off. in my pots, i can feel the moisture collection at the bottom. I only strive for run off when i feel there is something wrong with my plants and try to give them a good flush. If using sunshine mix #4 straight, i feel that if you water until you get runoff than you are over watering. just my opinion.
-as far as how long i veg, well that depends. i dont limit my veg to time of days in veg, i usually kick them into my flowering rooms once my other cycle is finished in flower. Im used to having 2 flowering rooms and 1 veg and everything was on rotations of 4 weeks. Which usually gives me 4 - 5 weeks to veg. my clones grow out in dixie cups, then transplant to 2 gal root pots, then transplant into 5, 7, or 10 gal pots one week before flower. and so on. I recently moved an took a break from cultivating... much needed. but now im back at it and currently building my double flower rooms with 4 600ws in each. i strive to get a nice lil 5 pack every month! fun timeZ

hope my rant answered ur q's
much love, smoke, and peace
Z

 

[indogro]

damn i misread just a bit.
-yes im using a blend of sunshine and coco mix in 5 gal pots (most of the time, as of now im trying 7 gal vs 10 gal)
-no matter how many plants i have under 600 Watts, i can achieve on average and easy 1lb to 1.5 lbs. like i said above, im liking 6 plants under a 600W.
-I water anywhere from everyday or every other day. i judge the amount of water in my medium upon watering. when i do water, i do not strive for run off. in my pots, i can feel the moisture collection at the bottom. I only strive for run off when i feel there is something wrong with my plants and try to give them a good flush. If using sunshine mix #4 straight, i feel that if you water until you get runoff than you are over watering. just my opinion.
-as far as how long i veg, well that depends. i dont limit my veg to time of days in veg, i usually kick them into my flowering rooms once my other cycle is finished in flower. Im used to having 2 flowering rooms and 1 veg and everything was on rotations of 4 weeks. Which usually gives me 4 - 5 weeks to veg. my clones grow out in dixie cups, then transplant to 2 gal root pots, then transplant into 5, 7, or 10 gal pots one week before flower. and so on. I recently moved an took a break from cultivating... much needed. but now im back at it and currently building my double flower rooms with 4 600ws in each. i strive to get a nice lil 5 pack every month! fun timeZ

hope my rant answered ur q's
much love, smoke, and peace
Z

I appreciate all this help, but it sounds like you are not growing trees? it seems you are doing overhead lighting with reflector with 600w? not vertical lighting and tree style? I'm most curious about growing trees....with 2# a plant. not a light. Sorry if there was any confusion.

 

[true grit]

rotating a large tree is a disaster waiting to happen.

I could see that too, but thats why i keep asking about stouter kush bushes. Shoot moving half lb plants with out proper support can be a disaster in itself.

@indogro- Im saying 7g will be too small for tree growing, especially with verts. With 7g and overhead i still water them daily and as Z said, watering to run off is often too much saturation for soil.

And yes, i didn't clarify in the first post i was referring to vert trees not trees in general. But sure there can be knowledge gained from everyone growing larger plants, whether trees or not.

 

[waayne]

True Grit I have rotated well staked Bubba Kush/WhiteBubba type plants
They were in 20's and it was possible ,but you need ample room to turn them without hitting other plants
One definitely needs a little extra space to do that successfully.......and it's still kinda sketchy when they're near harvest
and really heavy.....

I do like big X-Mas tree plants with the verts,but they are not as space efficient as well LST'd plants are.
I have nearly 12 foot ceilings and with flats running overhead as well as the verts I can pull off a 7 foot X-Mas tree with nearly zero larf
I normally LST clones ,but let some Bubba's grow au natural,as they are stocky and well branched by nature

I do let seed plants grow naturally sometimes just to see how they do untrained

As far as vegging goes,when I say I'm vegging 8 weeks ,that's for a Bubba Kush type plant ,a Diesel/Chem only needs 4-6 weeks veg at the maximum to pull a lb or more

indogro I normally use 20 gallon containers and have to water daily as much as 3 1/2 gallons a day so I don't think the 7's are gonna cut it at all if you're using soil

CAP I use about a 75% soil to 25% perlite mix most of the time
I tend to find ,lighter ,airy soil mix's work much better than dense ,heavy ,moist mix's......
I have experimented with 50-50 soil to perlite mix's and in my garden that didn't work as well as the 75% soil-25% perlite ratio mix's ......

I also trim out the interior flowers on large tree's ,and remove fan leaves to allow better light penetration.

 

[indogro]

True Grit I have rotated well staked Bubba Kush/WhiteBubba type plants
They were in 20's and it was possible ,but you need ample room to turn them without hitting other plants
One definitely needs a little extra space to do that successfully.......and it's still kinda sketchy when they're near harvest
and really heavy.....

I do like big X-Mas tree plants with the verts,but they are not as space efficient as well LST'd plants are.
I have nearly 12 foot ceilings and with flats running overhead as well as the verts I can pull off a 7 foot X-Mas tree with nearly zero larf
I normally LST clones ,but let some Bubba's grow au natural,as they are stocky and well branched by nature

I do let seed plants grow naturally sometimes just to see how they do untrained

As far as vegging goes,when I say I'm vegging 8 weeks ,that's for a Bubba Kush type plant ,a Diesel/Chem only needs 4-6 weeks veg at the maximum to pull a lb or more

indogro I normally use 20 gallon containers and have to water daily as much as 3 1/2 gallons a day so I don't think the 7's are gonna cut it at all if you're using soil

CAP I use about a 75% soil to 25% perlite mix most of the time
I tend to find ,lighter ,airy soil mix's work much better than dense ,heavy ,moist mix's......
I have experimented with 50-50 soil to perlite mix's and in my garden that didn't work as well as the 75% soil-25% perlite ratio mix's ......

I also trim out the interior flowers on large tree's ,and remove fan leaves to allow better light penetration.

Waayne, your plants look amazing. What is your average yield per plant? do you hit any 2lb'ers?

Would you happen to have your feeding regiment on a thread around here? I'm very interested in feeding organically as you do? Those trees look fantastic.