Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

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ChalkyWhite

ChalkyWhite

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It's been around for a while people on another board reported seeing sour dubb duds 2008 ish ....see that's why we need to find out what's real and what's not because true is saying it doesn't spread he's respected and some of the respected guys over at IC are saying they've seen it spread for sure. Guys also saying it passes from generations through seeds there has to be some lab maybe even a university that can test and at least tell us what it is and what it can and cannot do.
 
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true grit

true grit

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I guess we can't say it doesn't spread because obviously people are having issues. Im saying from my experience one branch that is stressed can dud and the entire plant is healthy otherwise, and so is everything around it therefor it is pretty isolated and doesn't occur on same strain down the line.

What are the IC guys saying it spreads on? Any dud pix? I often hear people say they got a dud...and its not a dud just a poor plant.

Imo if its spreading its due to mom health that isn't 100%, people sharing unhealthy cuts, etc. As stated earlier my only dud veg plants have been either off clones received or cuts off of those- and possibly stressed 1st gen moms at that. After I make a couple generations of healthy organic moms- i haven't seen any veg duds or flower duds from either of those strains- PK/Animal. In fact I flowered out the PK veg dud just to see what she did, and she affected zero of any of the plants flowered with her.
 
DowNwithDirT

DowNwithDirT

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super wack that the sour dub and that crew be brought up. I feel like I only got this problem after getting dubtech.

It's really hard to tell wtf is going on. I have successfully gotten my sour d to come out of it and several other cuts. I believe its in the root zone as the ones that are duding on me get all foamy when watered for no apparent reason.

all in coco and I have prob 5 strains on the verge of being lost.

I suspect it has to do with a N fed fungi/virus. I know people who have shut down over 40 lights because of this and the only thing that kept it going near the end was daily chlorine applications.

Scratching heads over here. Hey @true grit
 
ChalkyWhite

ChalkyWhite

265
63
I guess we can't say it doesn't spread because obviously people are having issues. Im saying from my experience one branch that is stressed can dud and the entire plant is healthy otherwise, and so is everything around it therefor it is pretty isolated and doesn't occur on same strain down the line.

What are the IC guys saying it spreads on? Any dud pix? I often hear people say they got a dud...and its not a dud just a poor plant.

Imo if its spreading its due to mom health that isn't 100%, people sharing unhealthy cuts, etc. As stated earlier my only dud veg plants have been either off clones received or cuts off of those- and possibly stressed 1st gen moms at that. After I make a couple generations of healthy organic moms- i haven't seen any veg duds or flower duds from either of those strains- PK/Animal. In fact I flowered out the PK veg dud just to see what she did, and she affected zero of any of the plants flowered with her.
There's a dud thread and a LA cup gg4 thread with a bunch of pics greyskull talking about how he thinks he got duds I can link if you want but I didn't think that was kosher if you're okay with it I can link it. Nobody knows yet how it spreads on any forum that I've seen 11 pages on IC not many answers in the dud thread.
 
true grit

true grit

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313
super wack that the sour dub and that crew be brought up. I feel like I only got this problem after getting dubtech.

It's really hard to tell wtf is going on. I have successfully gotten my sour d to come out of it and several other cuts. I believe its in the root zone as the ones that are duding on me get all foamy when watered for no apparent reason.

all in coco and I have prob 5 strains on the verge of being lost.

I suspect it has to do with a N fed fungi/virus. I know people who have shut down over 40 lights because of this and the only thing that kept it going near the end was daily chlorine applications.

Scratching heads over here. Hey @true grit

What up homie, nice to hear some feedback.

One thing I have noticed is that more often the folks having larger issues are running mediums other than soil. Which would feed into the idea of it being a root zone issue, as in all things non soil root zone is way more sensitive. Do you feed AACTs? Plenty of N fixing shit in teas that may help the problem if its what you think it is. Was the 40 lighter coco too? Do you see the duds in veg, or is it not popping up til flower?

There's a dud thread and a LA cup gg4 thread with a bunch of pics greyskull talking about how he thinks he got duds I can link if you want but I didn't think that was kosher if you're okay with it I can link it. Nobody knows yet how it spreads on any forum that I've seen 11 pages on IC not many answers in the dud thread.

Usually don't cross link forums to be kosher i was just curious if it was the GG4/Cup thing or duds in general.
If someone had an unhealthy mom that was spitting duds...then decides to share a bunch of dud cuts could be why folks are seeing it. I mean the cats who shared GG4 with me haven't had issues and my first round of cuts are all super healthy. Again these probably came from healthy moms.

Other than that sounds like Sour Dub related strains may be prone, just as some OGs and white crosses seem more prone/senstive.
 
ChalkyWhite

ChalkyWhite

265
63
What up homie, nice to hear some feedback.

One thing I have noticed is that more often the folks having larger issues are running mediums other than soil. Which would feed into the idea of it being a root zone issue, as in all things non soil root zone is way more sensitive. Do you feed AACTs? Plenty of N fixing shit in teas that may help the problem if its what you think it is. Was the 40 lighter coco too? Do you see the duds in veg, or is it not popping up til flower?



Usually don't cross link forums to be kosher i was just curious if it was the GG4/Cup thing or duds in general.
If someone had an unhealthy mom that was spitting duds...then decides to share a bunch of dud cuts could be why folks are seeing it. I mean the cats who shared GG4 with me haven't had issues and my first round of cuts are all super healthy. Again these probably came from healthy moms.

Other than that sounds like Sour Dub related strains may be prone, just as some OGs and white crosses seem more prone/senstive.
From the guy who gave the la cup gg4 duds it's really too much to explain and I'm repotting today so I'll quote...."

i did get dud adub and dubtech clones from a vendor who used to frequent these boards and who well may be lying in wait here still. without knowing that from the handful he gave me, i propped them out for several generations before flowering them, so i am very skeptical of the "cloning away from" argument that this practice will fix things. though i was unaware of it at the time as i was of the syndrome, the cuts also carried some tarsonemid class mite or another—broad, cyclamen, hemp russet.

the mites were persistent but easy enough to rid myself of, i was never able to bring the plants back, try though i did. if this were the whole of my story, i would be quick to cast my lot with them that blame the broad mites and to chalk the loss of the plants vigor, terps, and trichs to residual damage from the mites. however, in the time that i was tryong to clone away from dud, after i am 100 the mites had been eradicated, i watched the syndrome spread to other plants. the second i observed and logged this, i culled the lot of them. if you are seeing this in your plants, get them out of your room asap if you want to keep the other strains you've got.

the best practices are nothing magical. quarantine, cull, and scrub.

never introduce anything to your room that you have not sequestered in a safe space and observed for a period of at least two weeks.

promptly remove and destroy any plants you find to be affected.

be immaculate. i've said it before and stand by it unequivocally. OCD is actually a desirable trait in a grower.

that's all i've got. i'm here to learn as much as the next guy."
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
At times I get what I call 'thicker form' growth.
Sounds allot like your description.
Seems to me like a metabolic thing much like a re-veg, only not.
subbed
I think the same here. I've always had issues with clones/cuttings becoming what I've been calling "hairy", and when they start looking like that I know they're gonna be problem children. What I haven't noticed are the fewer trichomes and poorer smoke thing, just more of a pain in the ass to trim.

I'm subbed, too, because if I haven't yet seen it, I'm sure I will.
 
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Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
What if it's really some form of epigenetics (if this is even possible in this scenario) and we're flipping some genetic switch on and off via husbandry?

Sorry, that just popped into my head.
 
DowNwithDirT

DowNwithDirT

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sounds like it all comes back to the alien tech/sour dub line carrying some nasty shit. Fucked up
 
DowNwithDirT

DowNwithDirT

1,468
263
What up homie, nice to hear some feedback.

One thing I have noticed is that more often the folks having larger issues are running mediums other than soil. Which would feed into the idea of it being a root zone issue, as in all things non soil root zone is way more sensitive. Do you feed AACTs? Plenty of N fixing shit in teas that may help the problem if its what you think it is. Was the 40 lighter coco too? Do you see the duds in veg, or is it not popping up til flower?



Usually don't cross link forums to be kosher i was just curious if it was the GG4/Cup thing or duds in general.
If someone had an unhealthy mom that was spitting duds...then decides to share a bunch of dud cuts could be why folks are seeing it. I mean the cats who shared GG4 with me haven't had issues and my first round of cuts are all super healthy. Again these probably came from healthy moms.

Other than that sounds like Sour Dub related strains may be prone, just as some OGs and white crosses seem more prone/senstive.

no it was ebb n flow hydroton.

I can spot them in veg a mile away now, half my last round freaked the fuck out.
 
MakinGoo

MakinGoo

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438
I have no clue what the hell this is.. but I think its the roots <<<< but thats a pure guess..

Heres my story. . The 1st time I seen this was maybe 3 yrs back when I 1st started hearing bout RA's & BM's.. when I was running WiFi 1 hard I added a white bubba that Ali kicked down & said was fire.. it grew good the whole run but mid point in bloom when the crystals start 2 pack I noticed the white bubba >>> witch looked very healthy juss didnt pack on crystals like the WiFi 1... I never ran this cut b4 so I figured it was bunk as fuck & Ali lost his mind thinkin that was fire.. the whole run white bubba grew nice & healthy but finished with no smell or THC on huge killer size solid nugs..... I told Ali this cut sucks & I tossed it...instantly he looked at me with a crazy look.. he said what? My White bubba is dank dog... I said fuck no that shit was fuckin weaker then weak dog... he wasnt happy I thought his cut was wack.... but we keep it real as fuck between us both & we dont hold back info... he said I was crazy & I said he was crazy!!
At that time he noticed BM's or RA's attacking his garden so I freaked out & sprayed down everything a few times.. he kept me posted with every issue he had & none of that was going down at my spot.. at the time we didnt know if he had BM or RA & maybe gave them 2 me.. the whole time he showed me his pics & I showed him mine & I wasnt having the problems he had.. I was good.. next run was mostly wifi 1 & everything went great again till mid bloom & I noticed 1 wifi 1 doing that same shit<<<<<>Fuck!! I took cuts from every wifi 1 in the tent including that fucked up cut.. the 3-4 cuts were mixed in all the wifi 1 cuts.. I went crazy bcuz I couldnt toss the effected cut.. shit fuck shit!! .I was gunna toss everything but didnt .. I labled every single cut wifi 1 (a) (B) (C) grew them out & flowered them & labled those cuts from the flowered out cuts.. I figured id kill the cuts from the ugly lookin no crystal plants when they pop up.... crazy thing is everything went smoothly & no dud action was found even the cuts tookin from the dud mom turned out normal.. the whole time I was in coco..
From that point on id find a dud every now & then. Maybe 1 every other round.. its happened 2 White bubba,white fire, Yeti... its possibly also happened in soil but in soil its like 65-70% dud not 100% dud like coco... the soil plants might not even b duds it could b juss a weak grown plant.. I have had 65% dud action on Fpog, Face off bx2, forum , DHN Platinum Cookies. . Maybe its different in soil or maybe those wernt even duds?

Ive noticed it happens 2 me on a smaller plant that I added 2 fill in extra spots.. I always do that ill add a few tiny runts juss 4 more dank.. I feed the lil plants the same as the big 1's if the big plants eat every 2 days so do the lil 1's even if they dont need water they get it.. I figured I always poisoned them by over feeding them.. or keeping there roots 2 wet.. it seems 2 hit the smallest plants in my room when it happens ..

This shit is crazy & seems 2 juss happen out of nowhere then juss go away...
 
grower4life

grower4life

342
93
What up MGOO, sounds exact ally like the same shit I went through . Start to trough shit away and then decided to mark everything to figure out what and where this shit was and why.

Im not the savviest on a computer is there a way to copy over the 2 large messages I sent u? Those mite help, I dam near bet that if some lab tests where run like on the shit my boy and myself that would help people huge. And im gona find out where this article is going to be published at and when.
 
grower4life

grower4life

342
93
Im out in Cali and it sounds like a few of u folks r in other states? How is this same issue showing up all over the place. And I never had this issue up till maybe 1.5 to 2 yrs ago, Hydrids seem to show it way worse , It the fuzz trying to eradicate us lol.
 
MakinGoo

MakinGoo

11,029
438
What up MakinGoo that dud shit ur talking about, that's crazy cause I've been fighting that issue off and on, I thought it was my skills to, not to have a big head but I've been growing for the last 15 years so I'm for sure not wet behind the ears, I saw it happen about a year ago and it still happens hear and there. Kinda crazy cause it will some times only infect 2or 3 branches on a flowering plant and the rest of the plant will b fire. I've seen it due a hole crop before, no smell at all and super light on weight and looks almost premy, what's crazy is it comes fr the moms once they get some age to them , I can tell its Gona due by the way shoots look that I would take for cuts, I've tagged a few of them from cut that had the look and was rite on point, once it became a teens it looks like a totally different plant than all the rest , ( short squat toy weird spacing on internodes and grows more horizontally than vertical. Anyways is this the prob everybody else is seeing, I don't wana say it but some testing has been done and I'm pretty sure I no the virus. There's a huge wrote up going on rite now on a close friend of mine that unknowingly got it and gave it.


And I don't except cut from just anybody nor have ever picked up from club due to them and there issues,

Sorry I don't mean to run in circles, its been a min since ive talked about it so I first saw it when I got cuts from a different very good friend of mine and he pretty much only delt with seeds for the last 3 or 4 years so if he got infected it was before that. SO he gave me 2 cuts from a seed mom (gona make a long story short) and I noticed that when they hit teen they like really different and he said that they were both from same mom, so I took cuts of both thinking nothing of it. When done with flowering I had a bunch mixed in that had this issue ( the hole plant was crap) so the next round I took way less off the funny looking and marked them and sure enough they were crap when done again. So I had heard of issues of lock out probs on moms if kept in coco for to long and this lock out would change the dna of make up of the plant genetics and either P or K would be missing. So I started new moms in soil like I used to before using coco (of course using cuts from good mom and shit canned funky mom) this really helped the issue it was cut down to just a sperattic runt plant hear and there and more so the branch or 2 thing. It seems to happen as the mom gets old and really effects the hybrid more especially OGs which already act like lil bitches if u don't pamper them. also this virues affects ur yields even if the plant looks super healthy.


OK now to the other buddy that I originally talked about he was have major issues with the plants large fan leaves twisting and gnarling (AND NO IT WAS NOT BROAD MITES FOR ALL YOU PEEPS OUT THERE THAT GO RITE TO BMITE ISSUE) The top flowers wouldn't fill in but the lowers would and he saw a major lack of yield (he got dam near 2 decades under his belt also). I was on the outside of the box looking in trying to help diagnose the issue with a change some where on every crop there after trying to narrow down the issue. ( I was just starting to see my issues at this point but way different than his) So I finally told him its time to send in samples to a lab and find out what the fuk the deal is.

I also changed back to soil from coco even on all my flowering rooms because my shit was banging like before I ever switched to coco and this also cut the viruse issue or genetics fuk up way down to like maye one plant with a branch or to which I can live with and I basically figured it had to be something with hybrids being finky lil bitches.


So my buddy dumps his entire grow (thinking the issue is in the water or the area he is growing in)( maybe chemicals leaching outa cement from prier tent or leach outa walls or some crazy shit) and gets new spot and new moms from some one that hasn't seen this issue at all, and sure as shit its ugly head pops up again so off to a local lab he goes.


There is a write up that's gona hit our industry (not sure where and when but this was the first case that a person has brought to them and has been discovered in this industry, which the research started 2 or 3 months ago so its in the works. And now I see other peeps are dealing with what is beening called the DUDS.

(some of the same issue)

I tried to ask around on a few forums but of course theres those F ing Dik Head HATERS that got no prob tell other peeps they suck and there the prob not the plant which made me laugh cause most of them where doing 1 or 2 hole 1000 watts lights and been doing for a wopping 2 to 3 years lol ( sorry to rant and rave and also I do not want to offend any one out there, Im the most humble person and allways have an open ear and wana help, we all had to crawl before we got to walk)

I gave up asking and continued trying to figure out the prob. Also with that being said theres a whole lota skeptic's (HATERS) out there and I don't wana hear any shit for saying this cause as soon as the article comes out ill post it on here or figure out a link to it and I can dam near bet that a bunch a peeps with theses weird issues (DUDS) are gona get there shit tested and that's gona be the ugly headed issue.


This is known as the tobacco mosaic virus and effects different strains in different ways, some real bad and some you really don't no you have it. Its already documented in out door tomato grows and other vegetables. This virus followed him because it can be transferred by touch on door knobs card board boxes etc.


So with all that being said I have sent some samples into the same lab and am waiting to hear if that truly is my case also.



LOL was trying to make a long story short I don't think that's the case
 
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186183

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Hey guys, I am the one that growerforlife was talking about. I have had many encounters with the dreaded dud plant. I have been dealing with weird random issues for over three years. Many different strains many different symptoms. After much frustration and loss I finally went to a lab for testing. The results, positive for TMV. I have seen so many different symptoms over the years, and I believe the dud is another one of theses symptoms. I would take clones off of what I thought at the time were healthy moms, and out of 100 or so I would get Maybe three or four duds. And if I took clones off duds it would always produce dud clones. The virus will actually change the RNA and DNA of the plant. I believe the duds are just a result of that, over time they just change enough that it screws up the whole plant. There are more and more people finally starting to pay attention to this, so hopefully over time more legit info will come out.
 
soserthc1

soserthc1

7,040
313
Well these all sound pretty interesting and all the descriptions somewhat seems to fit my situation ..... let me explain first the issue 1) all was well in flower actually going fine - 4or 5 grow , I notice a bay dream growing with twisted down leaves and not really fulling in like normal but super frosty and smells good
2) during this time I was growing a sour dub s1 and introduced a sour dub s2 and a second sour dub s2 ( as I get 1 seed a plant with this phenol and i know for a fact its 1 seed as i have kept this extremely small yielding plant for its incredible flavor and frost and I have heard some doubt its from a sour dub but @Greyskull word is golden in my book as far as the dubtech i would love to see if @Phillthy is having any of the above issues @ChalkyWhite is he involved in the ic discussion
3) around the same time i received a few og cuts and wanting to be in the og craze i let down my guard and introduced these to the garden only to notice a week later a few bugs in webbing small white ones that i quickly took fast action on and have not seen and bugs and these plants never made it to flower but 1 particular og cut refused to root after the other 23 cuts in the kloner did ???
4) fast forward to flower added a few proven cuts that i ran before and 1 in particular that yielded 4 zips in 56 flat has little to no buds on day 45 and is forcing red hairs like its mature , stems are hard as rocks and plant appears healthy besides the no production
5) sour dub s1 - grew fine yielded small
6) sour dub s2 - a - is growing but production seems really far behind but nothing like the manila's second run
7) sour dub s2 - b - is/was the strangest plant ever grown - stretched grew , plant was twistie and throwing 1's and 2's all twisted up - i now have 3 plants looking bad production wise only and well several more seem to be growing fine and damn am i questioning everything right now ......thanks for the thread
 
grower4life

grower4life

342
93
Thank you MGOO!!!
What up GUY! 186183 nice to have you on board and all your info will surely help or at least give really good lab proven insight on this issue.
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
Plant Pathogens

Fungal plant pathogens
The life histories of fungal pathogens that exploit flowers are remarkably diverse, and these pathogens can be transmitted by invertebrates (Jennersten 1988; Roy 1993) as well as vertebrates (Lara & Ornelas 2003). The most well-studied floral fungal pathogen is Microbotryum violaceum, which infects plants in the family Caryophyllaceae. Spores are vectored by insect visitors from diseased to healthy flowers (Jennersten 1988; Shykoff & Bucheli 1995), where, following germination and meiosis, the fungal cells conjugate and directly penetrate the plant epidermis (Schafer et al. 2010). Mature flowers on which spores are deposited do not typically become diseased; rather, the fungus grows into the plant meristem and destroys developing pollen mother cells, replacing anther sacs with fungal spores (Schafer et al. 2010). A more manipulative tactic used by fungal pathogens involves the induction of pseudoflowers to attract floral visitors. For example, primary infection by mummyberry disease (Monilinia vaccinii-corymbosi) causes infected shoots of blueberry (Vaccinium spp.) to exude a sugar-rich solution, reflect UV light (Batra & Batra 1985) and produce floral odour compounds (McArt et al. unpublished data). Insects visit the pathogen-induced pseudoflowers, acquire asexual conidia and vector this infectious stage to the stigmas of blueberry flowers. Conidia morphologically and chemically mimic pollen grains, and hyphae ingress down the stylar canal in a manner similar to pollen tube growth (Ngugi & Scherm 2004), culminating in fruit infection.

Bacterial plant pathogens
Only two bacterial pathogens of plants are known to rely on pollinators as vectors, but both cause extensive agricultural losses. Erwinia amylovora (fire blight) infects plants in the family Rosaceae, including fruit crops such as apple and pear (Farkas et al. 2011). The most common site of E. amylovora infection is the hypanthium, where nectar is secreted. The pathogen then gains entry to inner floral tissues via the nectar-secreting stomata (Farkas et al. 2011). Bees are common vectors of E. amylovora, moving the pathogen from diseased to healthy flowers (Alexandrova et al. 2002). Erwinia tracheiphila, the causative agent of bacterial wilt disease in cucurbits, is transmitted via the frass of cucumber beetles that have fed on infected vegetative tissues. While infection via beetle-damaged leaves is well-studied, pollen-feeding beetles can also infect plants when frass falls onto the nectary and bacteria pass into the xylem (Sasu et al. 2010a).

Viral plant pathogens
All viral plant pathogens known to be vectored by floral visitors are transmitted in pollen (Card et al. 2007). These viruses are located in or on pollen grains, occasionally cause the pollen to become inviable and typically lead to systemic plant infections. Prunus necrotic ringspot virus, prune dwarf virus, tobacco streak virus and sowbane mosaic virus are all pollen vectored by thrips (Card et al. 2007 and references therein). In each case, infected pollen attaches mechanically to the insect exoskeleton during foraging in flowers. The disease is vectored to additional plants when the pollen-associated virus detaches and enters feeding wounds caused by thrips in various plant tissues. Several additional pollen viruses are vectored by larger floral visitors, such as bees. For example, blueberry shock ilarvirus is transmitted by honey bees during foraging for pollen and nectar (Bristow & Martin 1999).

Nectar yeast and bacteria
Nectar itself is prone to microbial colonisation by yeast and bacteria that can tolerate high sugar concentrations, and several studies suggest that pollinators vector these nectar microbes (e.g. Herrera et al. 2009; Schaeffer & Irwin in press). Nectar-inhabiting microorganisms can negatively affect plants through both indirect and direct pathways. For example, nectar microbes can alter nectar pH, H2O2 concentration and sugar concentration and composition, thus altering floral attractiveness and pollination (Vannette et al. 2013). Alternatively, nectar microbes can directly reduce seed production by drawing carbohydrate resources away from developing ovaries (Golonka 2002) or inhibiting pollen germination and pollen tube formation (Eisikowitch et al. 1990). It is important to note, however, that nectar microbes do not always harm plants. In some systems nectar microbes increase pollinator visitation to flowers (e.g. Herrera et al.2013; Schaeffer & Irwin in press). This increase in pollinator visitation increases pollen donation, a component of male plant reproduction, in Delphinium nuttallianum (Schaeffer & Irwin in press). A major challenge for future research is to understand how ecological factors shape conditionally mutualistic or antagonistic interactions between nectar microbes and plants.
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
Plant pathogens remaining to be studied
Understanding interactions between floral microbes and vectors has important implications for both natural and managed systems. In managed systems, six additional Monilinia species can be problems in blueberry and cranberry orchards, and each is likely to be vectored by insects (Batra 1983). However, no studies have investigated the effect of pollinator abundance on infection. This lack of information is surprising considering that orchards are often managed with variable densities of bees, and bee density can strongly influence transmission dynamics of other pollinator-vectored diseases, including M. vaccinii-corymbosi (Dedej et al. 2004). Similarly, of the 39 plant viruses known to infect pollen, 17 can be horizontally transferred and each of these viruses infect agriculturally important crops (Card et al.2007). However, to date, studies have only identified how six pollen viruses are vectored by floral visitors (Table S1), and we are aware of no studies that have addressed the role of pollinator abundance, identity or diversity on transmission.

In natural systems, an understanding of pathogen–vector interactions is pertinent to topics such as pathogen host shifts, hybridisation and speciation. For example, the extent of hybridisation and emergence of host-specific cryptic species of Microbotryum violaceum across the Caryophyllaceae (Le Gac et al. 2007) and Puccinia monoica across the Brassicaceae (Roy et al. 1998) may largely depend on host visitation patterns of vectors. Indeed, vector-specific interactions appear to reduce gene flow of M. violaceum between Silene dioica and S. latifolia (van Putten et al. 2007), while vector overlap may be facilitating a host shift of M. violaceum from S. latifolia onto S. vulgaris(Antonovics et al. 2002).

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ele.12257/full
 

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