Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

[nightmarecreature]

Mosiac Virus

"Plants in early stage of growth are stunted"

"Both number and size of fruit are reduced" "By as much as 50%"

 

[Greyskull]

someone with duds should throw some pollen on a dud and grow out the progeny to see what happens.

I like your thinking there but man that is fucking scary to think about too hahaha

FWIW i seemed to gleem from ics gorilla glue thread unknownprophet selfed the glue, (and I am assuming he selfed a good clean specimen/s... but you never know) and that 1 in 20 of the progeny come out duddly...

 

[EVOKE]

someone with duds should throw some pollen on a dud and grow out the progeny to see what happens.

funny u should say that i actually have a few beans from a dudded cookie hit with some SSh male pollen...

 

[drknockbootz]

Mosiac Virus

"Plants in early stage of growth are stunted"

"Both number and size of fruit are reduced" "By as much as 50%"

I hear you on this but my DUDS seem to grow just as fast as a non dud, from the start.

I would like some of you guys to define exactly what is a DUD from your perspective?
It seems like some pics people are posting are not DUDS and maybe stressed or shocked plants.
The waters are getting real muddy.
It even has me questioning what I mightve considered a DUD just might be a plant thats unhealthy or sick.

Would you guys agree that some plants that show TMV like symptoms can produce great quality nugs still and yield?
Depending on the variety?

 

[EveryOneSmokes]

Possibly but that does look like the crumbs some people get vs. dud branch. Can happen with 600's too, it generally a proximity issue with lighting.

Heres my update:
@EveryOneSmokes - I do think its a cloning issue. Ive been waiting to see more growth on a few before calling dud, but officially dropped the hammer on some yesterday. My homie gave me some snips, afterwards said he was having some issues with the mom in flower and culled it. Low and behold both snips and the Tahoe that rooted right next to them (all were good looking cuts) both dudded. Also appears that maybe another plant or two that rooted in the same tray did the same. Could be from the White that was struggling or from one the dud Faceoff cuts i was trying to root at same time...either way they were in the same tray, and funny how its only the genetics we are talking about being susceptible....Tahoe and White and other OGs. Rest of tray that rooted at same time are looking healthy. I am watching 1-2 others but thats just me being paranoid. Either way- it was only that tray, and none so far since. Interesting. Needless to say Faceoff has been tossed and so were the others. Hopefully that helps the issue.

Thanks for the update @true grit ...

I'm almost sure it's cloning pratices, I've only had a couple duds in the past but this last round of cloning was the worst..and I sole attribute this to my cloning practices and my invitation to disease via overwatering them..

I'm with @DowNwithDirT on this one, it something that can be fixed and cured.. I have seen cuts actually do good after some time, I had a tk that's after 3months has regained her composure and has started vegging back to normal... also have taken cuts of a dud in order to preserve the genetics and produced nice healthy new mom with no signs of dud'ing..

 

[EveryOneSmokes]

Would you guys agree that some plants that show TMV like symptoms can produce great quality nugs still and yield?
Depending on the variety?

I would say u could get great qualityand good results.. A lot of the posters that have no experience with duds seem to be attributing this to other ongoing issue...

There plenty of examples on this thread already feel free to check out @DowNwithDirT @delae632 @We Solidarity @true grit posts

 

[whatthe215]

funny u should say that i actually have a few beans from a dudded cookie hit with some SSh male pollen...

@EVOKE maybe with half the beans, sterilize them somehow. Whatever is causing dudding could hangout on the shell of the seed rather than inside of it. Sterilizing half could give you a better idea of if it's inside or outside the seed.

 

[nightmarecreature]

The symptoms are all over the place, making it harder to figure out.

My duds seem to grow out of it or just randomly pop up. I take cuts closest to the lights, i think its the heat from the lights that has a positive effect on what ever is happening.

Some duds grow fast , some slow. Some people's cuts never recover, most do.

When I get these tissue cultures out, they are going to be isolated and tested. It will bring these old cuts back to full health.

 

[MonsterMash]

Ok so let me take some time to explain what I think is going on in these photos

The 1st photo shows the plant in question- this 2nd photo shows normal growth on one branch

The3rd shows a different branch that is duding but on the same plant as the healthy growth

The last two photos are to show the healthy growth (left) dud branch right

These are photos I took yesterday. This is my only plant in veg that seems to be showing signs of duding

I think there's different levels of flair up as the fusarium(or whatever it is) is some what slow moving and not all plants are going to show signs even if infected.

An example of that would be plants being able to flower both healthy branches and complete duds at the same time. I do have some plants being ready to harvest and I do indeed have a few duded branches. Pics to follow later this week

 

[DowNwithDirT]

various og duds. that are slowly making their way out of it.

 

[EveryOneSmokes]

Ok so let me take some time to explain what I think is going on in these photosView attachment 408740

The 1st photo shows the plant in question- this 2nd photo shows normal growth on one branch View attachment 408739
The3rd shows a different branch that is duding but on the same plant as the healthy growthView attachment 408728
The last two photos are to show the healthy growth (left) dud branch rightView attachment 408729 View attachment 408731

These are photos I took yesterday. This is my only plant in veg that seems to be showing signs of duding

I think there's different levels of flair up as the fusarium(or whatever it is) is some what slow moving and not all plants are going to show signs even if infected.

An example of that would be plants being able to flower both healthy branches and complete duds at the same time. I do have some plants being ready to harvest and I do indeed have a few duded branches. Pics to follow later this week

This isn't what we are describing as a dud.. Seems to me that ur having other issues with ur feed... U would notice that ur fan leaves on the dud stays smaller than a healty plant, the branch u describe has normal growth to me... Also the dud will showcase a weaker skinner stem/branching, from what I've seen u will see the stem grow horizontal first them try to reach vertically.. Branches that have gone dud on me in flower will show similar traits, in first appearance they may seem healthy and lush wit many node sites ( usually it will show different traits then the way it normal grows, especially in og's) once the onset of flowers occurs they will start to show the signs of dud'ing... IME I've had dud's that were smaller than the rest...

 

[nightmarecreature]

I'll add that some duds have brittle stems and they tend to snap easily. Not all duds but some.

 

[ilaughlast]

I like your thinking there but man that is fucking scary to think about too hahaha

FWIW i seemed to gleem from ics gorilla glue thread unknownprophet selfed the glue, (and I am assuming he selfed a good clean specimen/s... but you never know) and that 1 in 20 of the progeny come out duddly...

i think he corrected to say those were clones not seeds.

 

[true grit]

various og duds. that are slowly making their way out of it. View attachment 408763 View attachment 408764 View attachment 408765 View attachment 408766 View attachment 408767

Ya see thats about where I got the Faceoff, outta the tiny serrations and lateral branching and back to normal leaf structure but still not quite normal OG leaf sizing or nodal structure.

 

[obsoul33t]

i have a few ideas that may help that i am implementing ..
calcium phosphite drench at the root crown has been harsh but seems to be clearing the plant of any pathogens , this was recommended by a crop science specialist here in ag country for battling the disease on outdoor plants . so i am starting the use of calcium phosphites to try and grow through this problem on a few plants that are really sick just to see if it works as suggested.

every outdoor plant i have seen in the past few years that starts having issues can always be tracked to the soil crown at the base of the plant of where the infection begins .. and every single one of them used the same cloning media ... rockwool cubes

take a rockwool cube and rub it on your arm and watch what happens ... rash and irritation!!! as the newly rooted cutting blows back and forth from air movement the stem at the base is being rubbed raw and it is at the point i believe we are getting the problem.
this is just a theory at this point but it is what i have witnessed personally over the past few years ..

for the people having bad dud issues could you please post what cloning media your using to see if we can find a possible problem point ?

 

[Capulator]

In light of this issue it seems to me that the practice of soaking all your seeds together in a cup of water to start germination is a bad idea. If the fusarium is on the hull or shell of a particular seed the water soak could just spread it to them all.

I soak my seeds in 20%, 3% h202 and 80% water. Seeds love that shit. I imagine it would kill off any pathogens as well.

@obsoul33t I am not sure if it is the wool. I have taken a lot of cuts in wool and never had a dud from it. The only dud I ever had was

A) from JJ-NYC seedstock. white hashplant BX1.
B) a couple of branches dudded on probably a 4th gen clone after having the plant 2 years at least... that had been mom'd out already for months. She was a little root bound and severely stressed when this happened. I had taken a bunch of cuts from her to start a new mom, and one of the cuts must have been from a branch that was just starting to dud. I traced it back to the plant and it was obvious- you can see my pic earlier in this thread of side by side.
C) The dud plant grew better than the others in the bed. It took over half the damn canopy it was so vigorous, and the flowers of it had an OG structure completely different form the WHP, so much so that at first I thought I mixed up cuts, but that made no sense because I can ID every plant in the garden. The flowers had a VERY faint smell. kind of grassy, and were garbage.
D) I killed the mom off after seeing 2 large branches clearly unlike the rest of the plant. Small glossy leaves with tight nodes and different serrations. Took a couple cuts off the good part of the plant.

Never saw a dud after that.

Keep in mind that this plant was stressed. It also came from nobody. I grew it from seed and kept it. It did not show symptoms for 2 years. So this kind of fucks up the theory of it getting passed by clone don't you guys think?

 

[Capulator]

Oh yeah I bleach all my trays 2x a week and I bleach any pots between runs.

 

[We Solidarity]

i have a few ideas that may help that i am implementing ..
calcium phosphite drench at the root crown has been harsh but seems to be clearing the plant of any pathogens , this was recommended by a crop science specialist here in ag country for battling the disease on outdoor plants . so i am starting the use of calcium phosphites to try and grow through this problem on a few plants that are really sick just to see if it works as suggested.

every outdoor plant i have seen in the past few years that starts having issues can always be tracked to the soil crown at the base of the plant of where the infection begins .. and every single one of them used the same cloning media ... rockwool cubes

take a rockwool cube and rub it on your arm and watch what happens ... rash and irritation!!! as the newly rooted cutting blows back and forth from air movement the stem at the base is being rubbed raw and it is at the point i believe we are getting the problem.
this is just a theory at this point but it is what i have witnessed personally over the past few years ..

for the people having bad dud issues could you please post what cloning media your using to see if we can find a possible problem point ?

fusarium infects at the crown of the plant...it will leave tan/brown spots (i'll try and get some pics of it) at the very base of the stalk right at the soil line. 99% sure the infection is the result of the stem getting too moist. Just like any fungus it is always present in the environment and only presents itself in the right conditions. The most common (and really the only one that's consistent) similarity that duds have is always a medium that stays heavy for an extended time - longer than 3-4 days. I clone aeroponically and TP into coco and I'll have duds at that stage, everything else grows phenomenal until the next transplant I'll get a few more duds. Duds may keep popping up until the transplants are drinking regularly every 2-3 days and then I'm usually in the clear. I can spot them by the time everything else is drinking regularly and I'll cull them. depending on strain it can be anywhere from 5% t0 50% loss. I'm working with 2 or 3 other growers to get a list together of all the plants we've seen dud out in a major way, so that we can trace lineages and begin breeding with stuff that is more resistant.

 

[true grit]

@obsoul33t The dud FO i got was in rockwool, think the homie I got the cuts that dudded from uses rockwool as well but that was down the line obviously since i rooted cuts myself.

I only use rooters and like i mentioned only get duds once in a blue moon in veg. And only 1 branch in last 3-4 runs.

 

[Dorje]

Scary shit indeed... I had this start with my garden about a year ago and know lots of folks in Colorado having problems with it.

I had one crop with a 50% reduction in yield and all other are about 25% down.

I have had almost every single symptom listed in this thread, which I read from page 1.

@DowNwithDirT, Fusarium is common and mostly harmless, how are you differentiating a harmless variety with one that causes problems? Have any methods of control worked out for you?