Observations On The Use Of 'the White' In Breeding

[roach]

So, not sure how to get this topic started, but I have wanted to start this discussion for some time, English is not my first language and I sometimes have problems explaining what I really mean, but im gonna try.
This is meant to be an openminded discussion and some well known and loved breeders are gonna be mentioned, but this thread is not to bash anyone it is merely meant as a collection of mine and others experienced with hybrids involving 'The White', so if you are a fanboy that thinks the breeder you idolize is flawless please just skip this thread, its not gonna be for you or if you just wants to flame some breeder because he ruined your grow make your own thread :mooning:

Over the years I have grown:

WhiteFire (OG Raskal)
WhiteUrkle (OG Raskal)
The White s1 (OG Raskal)
Strawberry and Cream (Connoisseur Genetics)
Elmers Glue (Relentless)
Frosted Headband (Relentless)
White x 88G13HP (Hazeman) (current grow)
and I know there where more that I cant remember, I saved all my old seedpacks so will find out once I get home

All of the above got 'The White' as father, except for the G13HP cross where it is the mother, and in all of them I have had a higher than acceptable % of hermies that roughly falls into 4 categories 1. full blown hermie, 2. a few fully formed male flowers, 3. alot of bananas and 4. just a few bananas, the few nanners a plant might put out at the very end of flowering is nothing im concerned about, but in all these strains it has been around the 4 week mark, mostly on the lower branches (White x 88G13HP is only 3 weeks into flower, so too early to say anything about that yet, but I hope it will be the exception to the rule), it is ofcourse not all the plants of each strain that does this, but too many and too consistent to be a coincidence.

I was hoping others would share their experiences with crosses involving 'The White' preferably someone who has grown more than 1 or 2 plants as it is as mentioned not every plants that does this, and I will also be posting more, just wanted to get it out there and start the discussion :)

 

[Seamaiden]

Hm... I haven't grown any White crosses that I'm aware of, but given the information you're sharing on how the crosses came to be, paired with my own understanding of her as a clone-only strain, then that suggests that the only way she could be made to be a Baby Daddy is by reversing. I personally haven't been terribly pleased with the reversed/feminized genetics I've grown out. I'll leave it at that.

The #4 type of hermaphrodite you describe is what I'm accustomed to seeing in any of the Chemdog genetics I've run, not so much outside, but otherwise they tend to express it very late in flower, usually no sooner than week 6 of flower. I find that type of hermaphroditism to be acceptable, none of the other types are acceptable.

I've posted this more so to help spur the conversation, since, as I prefaced, I've only grown out The White herself (that Ca whore!) and none of the crosses made.

 

[SeaF0ur]

Interesting... I have been seeing some intersex issues with elmers glue x fire cookies.

 

[fishwhistle]

The white is a finicky plant for me anyways,Have you tried taking clones and then flowering them instead of flowering direct from seed?just a thought.

 

[thunderfudge]

I've grown
white bubba ogers
white lem chem
white ult chem 08
white strawberry
white fire
White triangle
kromes white
white lotus
Krome and ricky both said the real deal white variegated given the opportunity.I saw one 2 week full blown herm in my white 08,and a few intermediate sack poppers 4 weeks in on my white lem chem f2,the rest grew solid,even the fems.over 100 seeds

 

[thunderfudge]

Interesting... I have been seeing some intersex issues with elmers glue x fire cookies.

Bagseed x bagseed,crossed to fire x bagseed,naamsayin?

 

[SeaF0ur]

lol... I know, I'm talkin 4/10 preflowering full on male and female at the same time though... seems a bit worse than normal.

 

[outwest]

I grew several white crosses from @DowNwithDirT and I found them all boring, but I find the white to be boring weed. To me it does not have much beyond bag appeal. Not much flavor or aroma, but it is fairly potent.

outwest

 

[GrowGod]

I grew several white crosses from @DowNwithDirT and I found them all boring, but I find the white to be boring weed. To me it does not have much beyond bag appeal. Not much flavor or aroma, but it is fairly potent.

outwest

I agree, I find the high is enjoyable for relaxing and being worry free though. So for people with high anxiety she's a gem!

 

[SHIRDABZALOT]

The best version of the white I've grown and smoked is a pheno of a OGR white s1. wasn't the frostiest by far outta the pack, but it had a super earthy og kush taste and a super lemony finish. Shit yielder, awesome taste and potent to boot. Lost her sadly, but I'm sure you could find it in a couple packs. Saw a few late nanners every now and again.

 

[zeke]

My raskal white S1 were a majority of herms. Boring as well. Not bad though, not really good. Looked white as fuck. Nice chunks of old school. It's way better as a mom than a dad. The original cut is better than the S1 I found in a pack. White romulan is superb. Only got a cut, solid too.

 

[Seamaiden]

The white is a finicky plant for me anyways,Have you tried taking clones and then flowering them instead of flowering direct from seed?just a thought.

That's an understatement! Talk about a high maintenance woman. Sheesh.

I grew several white crosses from @DowNwithDirT and I found them all boring, but I find the white to be boring weed. To me it does not have much beyond bag appeal. Not much flavor or aroma, but it is fairly potent.

outwest

Agreed, that's really why I didn't mind losing her. That, and her PITA factor. I really did find her to be a pain in my ass.

 

[friend]

The Og Rascal White Fire, to this day are the best beans I have ever
invested in, nothing boring there....just pure fire :shame:
As a wana be pollen chuncker, the only strain I want to work
with is the white.
Its my belief that most growers create thier own problems,
(hermis) not the plant
I mean fuck if I grew in a closet and was be pimped out , I
Would probably hermi too :banghead:

 

[boo]

I've grown out the white krush lately and love what it does for me...I got 2 phenos that are amazing...the bud shown is the sative side...

 

[Herb Forester]

Every cross I've grown with The White parentage included some phenos with varying displays of intersex traits.

 

[roach]

havent been able to sleep the last couple of days, its so hot and humid, but will try and make some replies to the comments made :)

@Seamaiden 'The White' has been reversed to become the male in all the crosses except the G13HP cross, I have had both good and bad experiences with female seeds, the biggest problem imo with them is not the feminization process itself but the fact that it becomes more a question of pairing the right (and popular) names with each other to make some money and not so much a desire to pair desireable traits with each other, every time there is a new "celebrety" clone there is always a million crosses made available with it (The White, GG#4, GSC etc) so instead of looking at the best possible parents to pair up breeders tend to look at what names are the most sought after at the moment and cross them with each other.
The type #4 hermies are in my observations very common in most Kush, Sour Diesel and Chemdog crosses, often its just one or 2 sterile bananas that are hard to see, but I think its partly because most of these clones origins is a few seeds that occured in a all female grow, so the original parents where already more prone to producing a few nanners, thats why I always try and grow as many seeds of these crosses so I can pick a good mother that doesnt have this trait and clone it.

@SeaF0ur I just grew 7 Elmers Glue and 3 of them showed some intersex, nothing bad but it just added to the list of White crosses where I have seen this (I did keep a very good mother)

@fishwhistle most of the new Kush hybrids are quite finicky, they dont like too much fertilizer, low light (I base that on its useualy on the lower branches that doesnt recieve enough light that the week 4-5 male flowers show up) or too much heat.
I have tried taking clones, and the plants with only a few nanners tend to not show any when grown as clones, now when im thinking about it, it might be because as clones the plants arent useualy as dense so more light gets down into the plant.

@thunderfudge I can attest to the varigated leaves, I have seen that in alot of the White crosses and also in the S1

@outwest @GrowGod @zeke I have only grown the White as S1 and it had very pretty buds, but also a low yield, and yes the effect although potent where a bit boring and so is the taste, but it also has some very good traits that it brings on to some of the offspring, thats why I keep growing crosses with it

@friend White Fire is also by far the best seeds I have ever grown, I have grown it from seed 3 times, 42 seeds in total, and the mother I decided to keep is one of the best plants I have had, no intersex in that, but I did see both nanners and male flowers in some of its siblings, I actualy tried to reverse the sex on my White Fire clone and it just wouldnt produce any pollen.
And you are right that intersex is often the growers fault, and I too have had grows where I didnt blame the plants for intersexing, but then I also know what the problem was, inbetween these grows with White crosses I have grown lots of other strains where I havent had any issues, and also some grows where half the room has been some White cross and the other half somethings else, and only seen intersex in the half with White crosses, I am sure there is some stresser that most other strains are imune to because some have grown alot of White crosses and never seen a male flower, I just cant figure out what it is but from my observations its passed down through the generations.
Also they have all been grown in a large bedroom with 2 600w lights, organic fertilizer and lots of love, its only the current White x 88G13HP that is grown in a small tent at my summer cabin and they are looking exceptionaly good, but the White is also mother in this cross and its a real male that did the impregnation and G13HP is from back when real breeding with larger numbers was still being done

 

[KaliHydro619]

Thanks for this thread I will Definitely stay far away from anything with the white in it haha

 

[NaturalTherapy]

IMO the white is one of the best breeding plants out there. The trouble is not the plant, it is reversing the plant.

Too often people don't want to take the time to find a good male to work with. Feminizing is easy and so common because intersex traits just become part of it. With m/f seed your looking at generally 50/50 sex ratios, and in my minor experience the same goes for feminized seed, whereby 50% will be intersex to an unacceptable degree. At least with males they are removed before they can pollinate your room.

But that's not just with the white, I feel that is true of any feminized cross, sometimes up to 80% intersex likelihood with some strains.

If you've paid attention to the way gorilla glue came into existence you should not be surprised that it and its progeny will commonly go intersex. Likewise OG kush due to its inbred nature.

Stick with m/f crosses and see if you have the same issue.

 

[happy b]

I've grown
white bubba ogers
white lem chem
white ult chem 08
white strawberry
white fire
White triangle
kromes white
white lotus
Krome and ricky both said the real deal white variegated given the opportunity.I saw one 2 week full blown herm in my white 08,and a few intermediate sack poppers 4 weeks in on my white lem chem f2,the rest grew solid,even the fems.over 100 seeds

Ah but your a pro fudge.we are merely mortals.

 

[happy b]

IMO the white is one of the best breeding plants out there. The trouble is not the plant, it is reversing the plant.

Too often people don't want to take the time to find a good male to work with. Feminizing is easy and so common because intersex traits just become part of it. With m/f seed your looking at generally 50/50 sex ratios, and in my minor experience the same goes for feminized seed, whereby 50% will be intersex to an unacceptable degree. At least with males they are removed before they can pollinate your room.

But that's not just with the white, I feel that is true of any feminized cross, sometimes up to 80% intersex likelihood with some strains.

If you've paid attention to the way gorilla glue came into existence you should not be surprised that it and its progeny will commonly go intersex. Likewise OG kush due to its inbred nature.

Stick with m/f crosses and see if you have the same issue.

Iv ran loads of fems and i almost NEVER get herms,nanners or anything.infact i have 2 cuts from s1 gg4 & theyr solid.although im told there were 2 more that DID herm.
iv never ran the white or any white crosses and probably wont now.i had cannarados white ix fems and the fuckers wouldnt even germ properly.
@roach i would expect goodness from the hazeman white x ghash.iv ran his bubba x ghash and its top quality weed.anything with N8tives 88g13hp is superb.