Bag Seed Hunting & The Lst Adventure

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rmoltis

rmoltis

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Day 75 (28th day of flower )


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I had quite a lot of yellowing and dying fan leaves recently. Starting from the bottom working upwards. Removed all of the bad ones. Poking around on the forum and online. It looked like nitrogen deficiency.

So I'm gonna bump up my earth juice grow in the mix. I didn't think the plant would be a nitrogen sucker during mid flower.
 
AlaskaJeff

AlaskaJeff

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I wish you had left one of them un-trimmed.
Removing so much primary productivity tissue, so early just lets light hit the dirt.
I'd bet if you had left one intact it would have clearly demonstrated that over pruning simply delays growth.
Please think about this with future pruning adventures.
If I'm wrong I want to know about it.
I know there are so many other variables that make this an apples to oranges comparison, but I'm really impressed with what moltis is doing here; just sheer bravado and audacity. Just go in there an mainline the shit out of them. But, I can't do that and have decided to go down a more conservative path kinda in line with what Dunge is talking about here. Not trying to prove Dunge's point so much as see if my soil and imperfect enviro can withstand similar mainlining. I'll be keeping track on my thread. Like on day 19 now.
 
rmoltis

rmoltis

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I know there are so many other variables that make this an apples to oranges comparison, but I'm really impressed with what moltis is doing here; just sheer bravado and audacity. Just go in there an mainline the shit out of them. But, I can't do that and have decided to go down a more conservative path kinda in line with what Dunge is talking about here. Not trying to prove Dunge's point so much as see if my soil and imperfect enviro can withstand similar mainlining. I'll be keeping track on my thread. Like on day 19 now.

Hey chief thanks for stopping in.

That particular message you have quoted dunge recommended not trimming off all the extra fan leaves.

For the reason of removing the primary photosynthesis drivers slowing down progress.

This is true and if you wanted the fastest growing plant you would not trim or remove anything.


But with mainlining it is a different story. Once you get to the point of first topping (5th or 6th nodes showing).

The reason you trim all excess vegetation during each topping except for the new growth tips and 1 fan leaf of each one.

The focus of mainlining is to establish an equal manifold from roots to the canopy. This means creating large thick branches capable of carrying/supplying massive nutrients to all branches/leaves/buds. And creating equal width and height of each one.

Now after your first topping you will find yourself with a fairly naked plant. And you may be thinking the light is wasted hitting the dirt. It is not.

The plant now having only 2 new growth tips. focuses its energy on growing those 2 fan leaves that supply food for the plant that in turn feed the new growth sites.

While this delay of growth from the trimming is occurring.
You will start to notice the stems and branches massively bulking up and growing thicker. This happens between every topping and this is part of the mainlining training.

This new plumbing system of the plant keeps nutrients flowing in 1 direction, up. And there are less interfering pathways on the way up when compared to a non trimmed plant.


Now if you were to mainline and not remove extra vegetation because you thought it would help during the beginning. The plant would focus on those extra branches and leaves as well in between toppings. Growing them larger and thicker. Wasting resources on something that will be cut off later anyways. I see this as slowing progress down.

There are many different ways to train a plant. Can't wait to see how you decide to do yours.

Heres a picture from today.
Please excuse the deficiency I'm working on. It just crept up recently and I'm working on remedying it during its last 4 weeks or less remaining in flower.
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Hairs are starting to turn orange.
And buds are swelling everyday.

To the naked eye the flowers look colorful. I see purple, orange, and the crystals give it kind of a peach colored glow when hit with light. I can't seem to capture that on camera tho.
 
AlaskaJeff

AlaskaJeff

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That is an awesome explanation of mainlining. Totally get it in a way that I hadn't before; much more holistic understanding. Sitting here putting your explanation together with the state of my plants and the pics in this thread and others. I'm almost certain that I'm at the point of plant growth as you were when you made your first trim, sometime in late Feb? have to look. At that point you left two lower leafs I believe and then when the new shoots established themselves, you trimmed those leafs. I'm thinking of leaving the two very bottom leafs in addition for a week. Two reasons; one, I see these leafs as being a regulator of sorts for the plant in terms of reacting to the environment (pure hunch) and two, with them established as positive energy producers for the plant I don't want to just cut that off suddenly. I don't know, because I do realize that what you're talking about makes total sense.
 
rmoltis

rmoltis

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At that point you left two lower leafs I believe and then when the new shoots established themselves, you trimmed those leafs.

Yes when topped you want to leave one leaf connected to each new growth tip attached.

This creates a photosynthesis factory feeding directly to the same internode as the growth tip. Giving it fuel to grow quickly.

Now once the new growth tips grow out. They will have 2 new fan leaves on each one along with new growth tips on that same 1st internode.

When those new fan leaves grow out you no longer need those oldest supporting fan leaves.

Once you reach your desired top count. Then you stop trimming and watch it go.
 
rmoltis

rmoltis

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Received my earth juice biozeus plant microbes today.
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I added some to my bubbling nutes and will feed in the morning once the soil has a chance to dry out some more. This should also give the microbes time to multiply in the tea before application.
 
rmoltis

rmoltis

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So I was talking to a local grower.

Was discussing the progress of my plant vs his plants.

And we got onto the topic of harvest time in connection with the yellowing leave die-off.

He claimed that when his plants leaves start yellowing. That he always has 3 weeks left until harvest.

This would mean that I have a 7 week strain (fast finisher). If this is all true then Monday should be the 2 week remaining mark. I will prepare for my flush and get things situated.

This information pretty much tells me that I don't have to bump up my nitrogen. Especially since the stretch stopped a couple weeks ago and there is no new vegetation. Just swelling flowers.

I've decided I'm going to ride it out just feeding her bloom nutes.
And the leaves will yellow, die and fall off at their own pace.

I'm so excited guys.
I'm past the halfway point.

My plan so far is to switch my hps to mh last 2 weeks of flower.

Yesterday I set my light schedule to 11on/13off. I may go 10/14 on the 2nd to last week. And 9/15 on the final week. Followed by 3 days darkness at the end.

My nute mix will essentially be
Earth juice bloom, earth juice bloomin guano, catalyst, biozeus.

Gotta keep it simple towards the end.
Then during the flush I'm not sure if I'm gonna use plain water or add molasses to it.

Any recommendations/tips during the ripening stage?
Tricks to give me more smell, taste, resin, Yield?

Any help/advice is appreciated.
 
rmoltis

rmoltis

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Day 80 (33rd day of flower)

Just wanted to post some pics.
I'm liking how she's looking.
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Most of the major biggest fan leaves have yellowed and died. She looks naked without them.

I have this idea in my head that the plant does this to expose the flower sugar leaves to the light. Helping fatten those flowers up more.
 
hiiipower

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Hey man great job, flowers looking frosty! Really a great first run.

But your runnin outta juice, that's why your yellowing so early. That yellowing should occur at about 7-8 wks into flower, not quite this soon. Either more nutes all together, or just more cal/mag for this variety next time. One or the other. It looks like you have a blueberry variety, to me at least. The flowers and resin look like a typical blueberry hybrid. For me blueberry hybrids always need more cal/mag than most others. Just a tip...

Best of luck to the finish
 
Minitiger

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While the paper towel method is for lack of better terms an ole hippy method one could surmise that the shot glass method is just as unnecessary of a step. I have used all methods and have had great success in germing using all of the methods. Think about it, why soak in a shot glass when you can go right into dirt and still have the same germ rates as paper towels or shot glass soaking. In nature the plant goes thru its life cycle dies and sheds its seeds directly onto the forest floor where it thru critters and wind, snow find its way down to the humus of the forest floor and sits until spring when the temps are such that germination can take place. So in keeping with a ala natural method straight to dirt seems the best way to go and then you remove 2 unnecessary steps 1. paper towels and 2. shot glass soaking.

One method I have seen or heard of on many forums is scarifying the seed hull with a nail file or sand paper. This is a method I would not recommend as the chance of damaging the embryo is great if not done properly.

Like you said if the seed is viable it will pop no matter the method as long as there is adequate temps and moisture. :smoking:

Agreed. I plant them straight into my soil mix (don't even bother with a "starter" soil mix, I just plant them straight into the "final mix" or whatever) and have gotten 100% germ so far. Granted, that's only about fifty seeds, but still....

Just started reading this thread (yes, I'm spending Saturday night reading shit on thcfarmer haha; I gotta work tomorrow, so sue me haha), but I wanted to chime in re: germination. Straight into the dirt makes the most sense to me.

Looking forward to getting caught up.
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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Okay, got to the last post, finally (took a little nap, just woke up a minute ago). First of all, you got some balls haha! Mainlining and all kinds of shit on your first run? Yeah, that's ballsy. But you obviously have a handle on it; can't believe how quickly that plant filled out. Any idea at all what strain it was you found those seeds in? Just curious. Cuz it does seem to be filling out very quickly. I know NOTHING about bottled nutes and shit, no experience at all with them, so maybe that method means fatter buds quicker. But yeah, I can't believe how quickly those filled in.

Secondly (and this is just a friendly suggestion), since you're on a budget and all, perhaps you may want to look into organic growing next run. The upfront cost is a little bit (although probably no more than buying bottles of nutrients when you need them over and over again ((I have no idea how much those bottles cost))), but if you get yourself some peat moss, earthworm castings and some sort of aeration (pumice, lave rock, even perlite if you can't source anything else), plus the necessary amendments, you can basically just use that soil over and over and over again, without ever buying anything again (except small amounts of the things you'll need to re-amend, but you'd only have to do that every other run, basically). Since you only have room for four three gallon pots, the upfront cost would be pretty minimal. And you wouldn't have to keep buying bottles of various, uh.... Things.

Anyway, super-impressive. That plant looks great. Can't wait to see how this turns out. I've been considering mainlinging ever since I saw @ArcticOrange 's thread, but even I don't have the guts to try it just yet. Topping's about as far as I'll go right now. Maybe next run I'll try mainlining....
 
jumpincactus

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Okay, got to the last post, finally (took a little nap, just woke up a minute ago). First of all, you got some balls haha! Mainlining and all kinds of shit on your first run? Yeah, that's ballsy. But you obviously have a handle on it; can't believe how quickly that plant filled out. Any idea at all what strain it was you found those seeds in? Just curious. Cuz it does seem to be filling out very quickly. I know NOTHING about bottled nutes and shit, no experience at all with them, so maybe that method means fatter buds quicker. But yeah, I can't believe how quickly those filled in.

Secondly (and this is just a friendly suggestion), since you're on a budget and all, perhaps you may want to look into organic growing next run. The upfront cost is a little bit (although probably no more than buying bottles of nutrients when you need them over and over again ((I have no idea how much those bottles cost))), but if you get yourself some peat moss, earthworm castings and some sort of aeration (pumice, lave rock, even perlite if you can't source anything else), plus the necessary amendments, you can basically just use that soil over and over and over again, without ever buying anything again (except small amounts of the things you'll need to re-amend, but you'd only have to do that every other run, basically). Since you only have room for four three gallon pots, the upfront cost would be pretty minimal. And you wouldn't have to keep buying bottles of various, uh.... Things.

Anyway, super-impressive. That plant looks great. Can't wait to see how this turns out. I've been considering mainlinging ever since I saw @ArcticOrange 's thread, but even I don't have the guts to try it just yet. Topping's about as far as I'll go right now. Maybe next run I'll try mainlining....
There are some good threads on ROLS. (Recycled organic living soil) It is a cost saver for sure.
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Day 75 (28th day of flower )


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I had quite a lot of yellowing and dying fan leaves recently. Starting from the bottom working upwards. Removed all of the bad ones. Poking around on the forum and online. It looked like nitrogen deficiency.

So I'm gonna bump up my earth juice grow in the mix. I didn't think the plant would be a nitrogen sucker during mid flower.
N is the basic building block for life. Even though the plant is in flower mode and needs higher levels of K she still needs N to help with the flower building process. It is a balancing act to get the right amount of N to the plant in the early veg stages and start of flower to keep from hammering the gurl with N to the point of N toxicity and still having enough N stored in its tissues to make it thru senescence. From what I see and its just an opinion, you may have backed off on N a little early and she is now using her stored N to make it to the finish line. I would at 33 dayz flower give them a bump of N to help getting to the finish line. that would still leave you plenty of time for flush Keep in mind the plant will scavenge itself as part of the senescence and yellowing of the leaves is normal in later flower. But at 33 days your really not late in flower. This is a time you dont want the gurlz to struggle with nutes as this may diminish your final yields.

Did you get yourself a loupe so you can track the trichs development? Using the leaves method is certainly not a recommended procedure. Using both pistil color and trichome coloring clear,cloudy and amber to determine ripeness.

I am really impressed with the job you did biting off mainlining for your very 1st grow!!!! You got big brass balls. :D And u did a very nice job at that. I am really proud of you man.........

As for additives to enhance aroma and taste I am a hardliner on what I call the snake oils in the industry and I am firm in my belief that all of those traits are tied to the genetics of the seed stock and there isnt much other than great genetics and to be well grown in an optimal enviro that will affect your taste and aroma. I am not a supporter off any types of products like Terpinator for example. But you will have to come to your own conclusions on what works best for your style of growing. Much of the hype I have read about, is all in my mind anecdotal and there isn't any research to support that you can open a bottle and increase your terpene/flavinoid profile.......... Again, nice job thus far and I cant wait to see those gurls on the day of chop and will wait anxiously for a smoke report. BTW Hard to be definitive from here, but it looks like your bagseed may have some blueberry in the woodpile........
 
ShroomKing

ShroomKing

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Everything looks pretty awesome.

I would like to add...

If you left a few more fan leaves on the plant, it would of had a nitrogen supply to feed off of.
Might want to tone down pruning with your current feed regimen.

Best of luck.
Peace
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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@rmoltis try to get me a close up shot of those yellowing leaves. Are they showing signs of Fe chlorosis? the leaf will be yellow but the interveinals structure will stay green. We can go from there once you can confirm.

Reason I ask is Fe is an essential nute and it can get locked out if the rootzone ph is too high 7.0 and up or it can lock out your Fe if there is too much phosphorus in your grow medium. Take a good close up pic of those yellowing leaves plz and post.

PS keep in mind Fe deficiency is often confused with Mg (Magnesium) deficiencies as well.

Here is some info on Fe

Iron (Fe) deficiency is a plant disorder also known as "lime-induced chlorosis". It can be confused with manganese deficiency. A deficiency in the soil is rare but iron can be unavailable for absorption if soil pH is not between about 5 and 6.5.[1] A common problem is excessive alkalinity of the soil (the pH is above 6.5). Also, iron deficiency can develop if the soil is too waterlogged or has been overfertilised. Elements like calcium, zinc, manganese, phosphorus, or copper can tie up iron if they are present in high amounts.[1]

Iron is needed to produce chlorophyll, hence its deficiency causes chlorosis. For example, iron is used in the active site of glutamyl-tRNA reductase, an enzyme needed for the formation of 5-Aminolevulinic acid which is a precursor of heme and chlorophyll.[2]

And here some data on Mg

Magnesium (Mg) deficiency is a detrimental plant disorder that occurs most often in strongly acidic, light, sandy soils, where magnesium can be easily leached away. Magnesium is an essential micro nutrient found from 0.2-0.4% dry matter and is necessary for normal plant growth.[1]


A plant with Magnesium deficiency
Excess potassium, generally due to fertilizers, further aggravates the stress from the magnesium deficiency,[2] as does aluminium toxicity.[3]

Magnesium has an important role in photosynthesis because it forms the central atom of chlorophyll.[1]Therefore, without sufficient amounts of magnesium, plants begin to degrade the chlorophyll in the old leaves. This causes the main symptom of magnesium deficiency, chlorosis, or yellowing between leaf veins, which stay green, giving the leaves a marbled appearance. Due to magnesium’s mobile nature, the plant will first break down chlorophyll in older leaves and transport the Mg to younger leaves which have greater photosynthetic needs. Therefore, the first sign of magnesium deficiency is the chlorosis of old leaves which progresses to the young leaves as the deficiency continues.[4]Magnesium also is a necessary activator for many critical enzymes, including ribulosbiphosphate carboxylase (RuBisCO) andphosphoenolpyruvate carboxylase (PEPC), both essential enzymes in carbon fixation. Thus low amounts of Mg lead to a decrease in photosynthetic and enzymatic activity within the plants. Magnesium is also crucial in stabilizing ribosome structures, hence, a lack of magnesium causes depolymerization of ribosomes leading to pre-mature aging of the plant.[1] After prolonged magnesium deficiency,necrosis and dropping of older leaves occurs. Plants deficient in magnesium also produce smaller, woodier fruits.
 
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jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Beautiful looking girl there. Just got done skimming through last 9-10 pages of your journal and am really impressed. Doing a first time grow myself now with some Satori and Dinafem Cheese from seed. I'm subject to similar floor area constraints but my usable vertical is good 50" or so. For that reason I'm going more sog I think. We'll see as I get further into this. Cheers and good luck with this. I'll be rooting for ya!
Love me some Satori. Very nice smoke!!
 
Minitiger

Minitiger

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@rmoltis try to get me a close up shot of those yellowing leaves. Are they showing signs of Fe chlorosis? the leaf will be yellow but the interveinals structure will stay green. We can go from there once you can confirm.

Reason I ask is Fe is an essential nute and it can get locked out if the rootzone ph is too high 7.0 and up or it can lock out your Fe if there is too much phosphorus in your grow medium. Take a good close up pic of those yellowing leaves plz and post.

PS keep in mind Fe deficiency is often confused with Mg (Magnesium) deficiencies as well.

Here is some info on Fe

Iron (Fe) deficiency is a plant disorder also known as "lime-induced chlorosis". It can be confused with manganese deficiency. A deficiency in the soil is rare but iron can be unavailable for absorption if soil pH is not between about 5 and 6.5.[1] A common problem is excessive alkalinity of the soil (the pH is above 6.5). Also, iron deficiency can develop if the soil is too waterlogged or has been overfertilised. Elements like calcium, zinc, manganese, phosphorus, or copper can tie up iron if they are present in high amounts.[1]

Iron is needed to produce chlorophyll, hence its deficiency causes chlorosis. For example, iron is used in the active site of glutamyl-tRNA reductase, an enzyme needed for the formation of 5-Aminolevulinic acid which is a precursor of heme and chlorophyll.[2]

And here some data on Mg

Magnesium (Mg) deficiency is a detrimental plant disorder that occurs most often in strongly acidic, light, sandy soils, where magnesium can be easily leached away. Magnesium is an essential micro nutrient found from 0.2-0.4% dry matter and is necessary for normal plant growth.[1]


A plant with Magnesium deficiency
Excess potassium, generally due to fertilizers, further aggravates the stress from the magnesium deficiency,[2] as does aluminium toxicity.[3]

Magnesium has an important role in photosynthesis because it forms the central atom of chlorophyll.[1]Therefore, without sufficient amounts of magnesium, plants begin to degrade the chlorophyll in the old leaves. This causes the main symptom of magnesium deficiency, chlorosis, or yellowing between leaf veins, which stay green, giving the leaves a marbled appearance. Due to magnesium’s mobile nature, the plant will first break down chlorophyll in older leaves and transport the Mg to younger leaves which have greater photosynthetic needs. Therefore, the first sign of magnesium deficiency is the chlorosis of old leaves which progresses to the young leaves as the deficiency continues.[4]Magnesium also is a necessary activator for many critical enzymes, including ribulosbiphosphate carboxylase (RuBisCO) andphosphoenolpyruvate carboxylase (PEPC), both essential enzymes in carbon fixation. Thus low amounts of Mg lead to a decrease in photosynthetic and enzymatic activity within the plants. Magnesium is also crucial in stabilizing ribosome structures, hence, a lack of magnesium causes depolymerization of ribosomes leading to pre-mature aging of the plant.[1] After prolonged magnesium deficiency,necrosis and dropping of older leaves occurs. Plants deficient in magnesium also produce smaller, woodier fruits.

And not that my plants haven't ever experienced deficiencies, but just another reason to go organic, @rmoltis As long as everything a plant needs is present in your soil mix, you don't have to worry or "guess" what and when to feed your plant. The plant will just use what it needs, when it needs it. Don't get me wrong, I still use sprouted seeds teas and aerated compost teas and shit, but I don't necessarily HAVE to. I could probably just use straight water all the way through and be fine.

Not trying to convince you to switch to organic (maybe I kind of am haha), but I work a lot, too. Plus, I'm kinda lazy haha. The less I have to deal with my plants, the better. I can barely drag my lazy ass off the couch just to get in there and water them, ya know?
 

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