What Am I Doing Wrong?

  • Thread starter Kalikush
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
I made a Coots Mix, 'cooked' it for many weeks before using and I've lost many expensive seeds while trying to work out 'going 100% organic.' I tried sowing directly into soil but couldn't work that out so I sprouted seeds in a paper towel(sprinkled with mycos bacteria) and transferred to soil once they had the first set of leaves(~3 days later). I went from red cups to 9oz clear cups(with holes in the bottom and sides for drainage) that are 2/3 full. Temps are 75-80 24/7, humidity ~50% 24/7(might be a bit low but it's a dry winter). I was overwatering and had hydrophobic soil but I got a kitchen scale to work out when the soil is dry and I treated the soil with Aloe Vera water and worked out those issues.

I watered first with an EWC slurry (pinch of EWC from a local worm guy in a bit of water then shook for a minute) to start the microbe process.

After about 10 days the seedlings start yellowing when starting to show the 2nd set of leaves. I soaked: a pinch of kelp meal and a pinch of EWC, for 20-30 minutes, then shook for a minute before watering in. Then they yellow more and they start showing neurotic spots as shown. What is going on here? I'm about to go back to FF soil and nutes and try my soil mix once they are ready for transplant. Lighting is from CFLs on 24/0. Any ideas?
 
What am i doing wrong
justiceman

justiceman

2,718
263
Never heard of "Coots Mix" what are the ingredients if you don't mind?

That seedling looks pretty hungry. Makes me think that mix has barely any food in it.

The FFOF you spoke of is a good example of organic soil with a lot of good food in it already. Sometimes too much haha.
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Don't feed them anything until they get their first set of leaves and at that point only give them like 1/4 strength nutes. You're probably cooking them

So yellowing after about 10 days isn't a sign of it being hungry?
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Never heard of "Coots Mix" what are the ingredients if you don't mind?

That seedling looks pretty hungry. Makes me think that mix has barely any food in it.

The FFOF you spoke of is a good example of organic soil with a lot of good food in it already. Sometimes too much haha.

Coots is The Godfather of organic soil if I do say so myself lol but here's my mix:

1/3 (1/2 promix & 1/2 coco) + 1/3 organic ricehulls + 1/3 (1/2 Roots organic earth wormcastings + 1/2 G&B Organic compost)

For each cubic foot of the above, I added these amendments: 1/2c organic neem seed meal, 1/2c organic kelp meal, 1/2c organic insect frass, 4c mineral dust ( 1/2 glacial rock dust, 1/6 organic oyster shell, 1/6 organic basalt, 1/6 of green sand).
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Not with that mix. I'd be curious what the ph of your soil is after it composted. If it was me I would start seeds in a light inert mix like pro mix cut with perlite then transplant into your mix once the seedlings were big enough.

I'll pH it after I water in the next day or so. I can try an inert mix as suggested but after about 10 days they would need to be fed correct? Is my EWC/kelp meal slurry going to do the trick? What do you think is causing the nerocis on the leaf in the photo?
 
justiceman

justiceman

2,718
263
Coots is The Godfather of organic soil if I do say so myself lol but here's my mix:

1/3 (1/2 promix & 1/2 coco) + 1/3 organic ricehulls + 1/3 (1/2 Roots organic earth wormcastings + 1/2 G&B Organic compost)

For each cubic foot of the above, I added these amendments: 1/2c organic neem seed meal, 1/2c organic kelp meal, 1/2c organic insect frass, 4c mineral dust ( 1/2 glacial rock dust, 1/6 organic oyster shell, 1/6 organic basalt, 1/6 of green sand).

Hahaha damn I must be out of the loop on that one! My apologies to the godfather. The base mix seems pretty solid, and I definitely like the amendments. I don't see anything strong like bat guano, fish meal, crab meal, bone meal, or blood meal. I would have thought that the compost and EWC in the base mix would be good enough for now though. hmmmmmm.

I've always liked using LC's mix. It's cool because you can germinate seeds in the base mix much like what Mr.GoodCat suggested and then you can pick one of the recipes and boom you are good to go!

LC's Mix is great for any stage of growth. You can germ seeds in it, grow mothers in it, root clones in it as well as veg and flower in it.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

Or, if you use Pro Mix, Sunshine Mix or Fox Farm mixes...

LC's Soiless Mix #2:

6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime. The dolomite lime is for Ca. and Mg. not just to adjust the pH of the soil.

But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source

Choose one of these organic plant food recipes to add to LC's Soiless Mix.

RECIPE #1

If you want to use organic nutrients like Blood meal, bone meal and kelp meal...

1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the kelp Meal and seaweed extract.

Mix all the dry nutrients into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it. Use Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the nutrients and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.

With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.

When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germinate one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

RECIPE #2

If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloid's Guano Mix.
Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.

1/3C hi N Guano Mexican Bat Guano or Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS kelp Meal
(OPTIONAL) 1TBS Jersey Greensand

RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nutrient tea mix

Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea. Add 5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 2nd or 3rd watering.

Veg mix-

1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)

(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)

Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses

Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:

2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)

(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)

Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


RECIPE #4
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)
1 capful is 1 TB or 15 ml.

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O

For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O
 
Last edited:
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Hahaha damn I must be out of the loop on that one! My apologies to the godfather. The base mix seems pretty solid, and I definitely like the amendments. I don't see anything strong like bat guano, fish meal, crab meal, bone meal, or blood meal. I would have thought that the compost and EWC in the base mix would be good enough for now though. hmmmmmm.

I've always liked using LC's mix. It's cool because you can germinate seeds in the base mix much like what Mr.GoodCat suggested and then you can pick one of the recipes and boom you are good to go!

I have a bag of FF Happy Frog so I'll try some new seeds in a mix of 30-50% rice hulls with 50-70% FFHF and see if I get different results. I looked through my binder and the one deficiency I am missing is pH so I'll run some pH tests this weekend and see if something is off. I checked it before and it was within range but maybe my kelp/EWC slurry is too high/low. Could be the water that's coming out of a chlorine/chloramine filter too so I'll check that as well. I've never had this much trouble before so it's really frustrating but the seedling pictured earlier has a lot more necrosis on the original leaf and is now starting on the opposite leaf (not pictured) @Seamaiden any ideas?
 
IMG 1407
DrMcSkunkins

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil
3,901
263
I start my seeds in straight coco and a root plug and water them with un PHed tap water (sitting out overnight)until they have 4 or so sets of leaves. Those first two little round leaves are called cotyledons, they are full of all the fertilizer the plant needs for the first month or so.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
I have a bag of FF Happy Frog so I'll try some new seeds in a mix of 30-50% rice hulls with 50-70% FFHF and see if I get different results. I looked through my binder and the one deficiency I am missing is pH so I'll run some pH tests this weekend and see if something is off. I checked it before and it was within range but maybe my kelp/EWC slurry is too high/low. Could be the water that's coming out of a chlorine/chloramine filter too so I'll check that as well. I've never had this much trouble before so it's really frustrating but the seedling pictured earlier has a lot more necrosis on the original leaf and is now starting on the opposite leaf (not pictured) @Seamaiden any ideas?
Frankly, I found I see much better results just going with a seed starter mix, already prepared. It's always got the right consistency, pH and nutrient levels.

In the meantime, if you have worm castings, make a rich tea or two for the seedling. You may find you prefer to plant in another soil.
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
I start my seeds in straight coco and a root plug and water them with un PHed tap water (sitting out overnight)until they have 4 or so sets of leaves. Those first two little round leaves are called cotyledons, they are full of all the fertilizer the plant needs for the first month or so.

Yup! I didn't try feeding anything until about day 10-12 when they started yellowing and I figured my soil mix was not hot enough to burn but had nutes available when they needed it.

Frankly, I found I see much better results just going with a seed starter mix, already prepared. It's always got the right consistency, pH and nutrient levels.

In the meantime, if you have worm castings, make a rich tea or two for the seedling. You may find you prefer to plant in another soil.

Then I won't fight it and I'll ditch my soil as a seedling mix for the next couple seeds, thanks. I do have some EWC left so I'll try brewing a proper tea instead of a slurry for this one that's struggling but it's in pretty rough shape, I'm tempted to cull and move on since my experience with seedlings that run into problems and have their growth stunted is that they continue to struggle for most of their lives and I cull them later anyways.
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Well I don't think it's the pH, although it's a little bit high but I don't think it's high enough to be causing the problems(I could be wrong) filtered water going in is 7.5, runoff is 7.3 but I noticed some clones have burnt tips using the same soil. I have been using the IPM spray but I'm guessing my soil is too hot for the seedlings. I would have though the seedlings would burn within the first few days if that was the problem instead of yellowing then the leaves getting the necrosis before going crispy. I'll just try FF happy frog cut 50/50 with some rice hulls and see how that goes for the first couple weeks.
 
GT21

GT21

I like soup
Supporter
10,114
438
Looks like your ph is way off
I made a Coots Mix, 'cooked' it for many weeks before using and I've lost many expensive seeds while trying to work out 'going 100% organic.' I tried sowing directly into soil but couldn't work that out so I sprouted seeds in a paper towel(sprinkled with mycos bacteria) and transferred to soil once they had the first set of leaves(~3 days later). I went from red cups to 9oz clear cups(with holes in the bottom and sides for drainage) that are 2/3 full. Temps are 75-80 24/7, humidity ~50% 24/7(might be a bit low but it's a dry winter). I was overwatering and had hydrophobic soil but I got a kitchen scale to work out when the soil is dry and I treated the soil with Aloe Vera water and worked out those issues.

I watered first with an EWC slurry (pinch of EWC from a local worm guy in a bit of water then shook for a minute) to start the microbe process.

After about 10 days the seedlings start yellowing when starting to show the 2nd set of leaves. I soaked: a pinch of kelp meal and a pinch of EWC, for 20-30 minutes, then shook for a minute before watering in. Then they yellow more and they start showing neurotic spots as shown. What is going on here? I'm about to go back to FF soil and nutes and try my soil mix once they are ready for transplant. Lighting is from CFLs on 24/0. Any ideas?
 
GT21

GT21

I like soup
Supporter
10,114
438
Isn't it supposed to be around 6.5-6.8 so I'm not that far off? What would you recommend I do/add? More oyster shell flour as a buffer?
Ya 6.8 is pretty primo for soil... do you ph your input water and if you use a pen when is the last time its was calibrated?
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Oh sh@t! lol ill run some ph tests tomorrow on all my teas, slurries, etc.. Maybe that's my problem! Any idea what I can do to drop my ph quickly organically @DrMcSkunkins?
 
Kalikush

Kalikush

121
28
Ya 6.8 is pretty primo for soil... do you ph your input water and if you use a pen when is the last time its was calibrated?

I calibrated a few weeks ago with the calibration solution but today all I had was Coke Zero, it was 3.2 so my pen is still accurate.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom