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Thanks peeps. Yeah probably safest bet going with dolomite.
Both contain Iron, so you are covered w Iron. No need to add more by adding basalt. That is correct that peat will have the Mg.i did a little research on the kelp meal and rock dust in the WG. they're actually kelplex and elemite. i suppose both could be considered a rd.
Im actually leaning toward not putting any rd in and doing 2-6x the basalt more inline to the current mix. The breakdown from nature's footprint basalt looked nice(they have it on their amazon page)... tho it has a 2/1 cal/mag ratio and the peat looks mag heavy as is... decisions... lol.
Incorrect. Dolomite is not recommended. Coot mix recommendation is oyster shell flour and gypsum.oyster shell flour...dolomitic lime...take your pick...idk though this is getting down to an exact science here...lol...i just say hmmm...worm poop!
Im sorry but I had to mention I purchased a 50lb bag of malted barley grain and a flour mill lmao.
I think I'm turning into coots.
Coot's original recipe utilized dolomitic lime. v1Both contain Iron, so you are covered w Iron. No need to add more by adding basalt. That is correct that peat will have the Mg.
Incorrect. Dolomite is not recommended. Coot mix recommendation is oyster shell flour and gypsum.
In addition to Calcium, Dolomite Lime also contains Magnesium.
Ag Lime or Oyster shell flour are Calcium carbonate.
Ag Gypsum is Calcium sulfate.
Where do you get these tests done? Pretty cool.Cootz mix usually does not contain micronutrients in proper proportions either. There is a fix. Amend with the trace minerals.
Excess magnesium and sodium can and will make your soil compacted. Not good in a no till situation.
Azomite could add an excess of aluminum to say it is going to compact your soil is false.
Cootz mix usually an overdose of iron and lacking trace minerals. Why? The type of rock dust and the amount used.
Here are test results of a coots mix. I modified the amount of compost to make the cootz mix more balanced. Otherwise would have been a huge excess of potassium and sodium. Worse than there already it.
PH is high, Cations are in excess. Sulfur is high, Sodium is high. (Ideally sodium is 1.5% or less)
Lacking Boron, Manganese, Copper, Zinc, Cobalt, Molybdenum.
Look at the desired value and then value found. See how the levels are higher than desired?
View attachment 703434
Cootz mix usually does not contain micronutrients in proper proportions either. There is a fix. Amend with the trace minerals.
View attachment 703434
Logan labs soil test. Costs $25-30.00. good bang for your buck. IWhere do you get these tests done? Pretty cool.
Also you make perfect sense. I like your approach. Basically you get it all calibrated and run the machine. I misworded in saying azomite causes compaction but due to its clay like consistency I've been told it ends up clumpy when it breaks down. I haven't experienced it but that's the best i can describe it.
No reason to be conflicted. If you do not want to end up with a mix that is unbalanced. Than make a few small changes.hmmmm. well now i'm conflicted... from my understanding of coot's way, he doesn't worry about nutrient ratios so much but primarilty about keeping the soil life happy like the Teaming with series talked about.. but albrecht ratios are what alot of the OG growers talk of, which are veritable ... So i do what i normally do, which is to do both! I'm gonna make up a pot with coot's revised no till then make up a pot with KIS ratios: 1 part compost 2 part aeration 3 part peat and have it tested. Put both on the same watering cycle with fulvic/agsil16/aloe, water and top dress. a no-till duel it shall be!
how do you like that wallastonite/calcium silicate?
Well i think you have me sold bud. Do you have a specific recipe written up? I am about to lay down two 72 x 36 x 14 geopots and i want your recipe!!! Hope it's not a secret family recipe lol. I know you're telling me substitute this and that but I working on a GED education here lol. You should sell your recipe to build a soil...haha.Logan labs soil test. Costs $25-30.00. good bang for your buck. I
No reason to be conflicted. If you do not want to end up with a mix that is unbalanced. Than make a few small changes.
Use ag lime/oystershell flour and gypsum not dolomite. Use 1lb or less rock dust. Cut the compost down to 10% or less. Then use EWC to make up the difference. Cut the neem rate in half. Add trace minerals. Then you got a mix that will perform better than one that has excess potassium, elevated ph and a lack of exchangeable hydrogen.
Good idea to test both in your environment.
Both coot mix and KIS are shooting the same ratios of nutrients (Albrecht) but different ratios of peat compost and aeration. KIS uses a lab to test and then amend the soil with the appropriate minerals.
Balanced soil is the proper home for the soil food web. Higher uptake of nutrients, higher levels of pest and disease resistance. All the things living organic soil should be.
Using excessive amounts of amendments is not mimicking the soil food web. Excess nitrogen prevent a healthy plant from achieving higher brix levels. The runoff can harm the earth.
Unfortunately coot throws the soil out after each run, he is not a no till grower.
I am liking the wollastonite so far. Also testing DE and silica dioxide.
Happy Growing
I am just trying to help improve upon what has been shared. I mentioned all the same things to coot when I met him. Olmao i'm there with ya @DopeSnob because i'm trying to wrap my head around it. I was always under the impression the ratios weren't an exact science. As long as you have sufficient amounts of each amendment to sustain growth.
@leadsled has basically adjusted the system where deficiencies or abundances are almost impossible but here's where I'm stumped regarding this. People always raise hell when I mention the topic of "Sugar Signalling". Have you read up on it? Basically the plant would drop a sugar to feed the microbes therefore making nutrients available. these sugars are different complexes depending on what nutrient the plant is signalling for. They can even control uptake of cations.
This is why I'm almost tempted to get away from coots feed schedule. I've seen guys running no till water only kicking 1g per watt. I have also observed a lot of no till guys wanting to cut adding any external sources of sugar as we are starting to become more educated on sugar signalling. It causes an interruption in communication between the plant and the soil microbial life.
I could be totally off beat. I can tell you definitely know your shit sir. I am a sponge willing to further my understanding. You have a vast knowledge. Hell you perfected coots recipe. I also like your way of thinking as it's like mine. I don't just follow one handbook. I collect knowledge from different sources and research what the pros and cons are of each method and I'm almost trying to make my own personal handbook to follow. My best information comes from a very experienced grower, Joshua Steensland. Search him on youtube. All of his thinking you will find to be very logical. His "No Till Talks" are great and very informative. He actually utilizes NTG to grow medical marijuana commercially. I know some veteran growers are all against the WeedTube community but there is good info to be gained.
Well you are definitely doing the same and I see your passion in NTG on the minimalist level. You enjoy teaching and I can definitely see when someone has a far greater knowledge than myself. That's when my mouth shuts and my ears open. Josh is a great guy. Very humble. He even cussed people out for being assholes to one another in his comments section. "We're growing plants here, not egos." Lol he's awesomeI am just trying to help improve upon what has been shared. I mentioned all the same things to coot when I met him. O
Foliar sprays help plants to exude more sugars (exudates) via the roots.
The roots produce sugars called exudates. The increased levels of exudates help to feed the microbial life and there fore helps with the uptake of microbial metabolites.
You can do water only and do excellent. Many times less is more. In nature there is not large amounts meals or powdered malted barley in the soil. There is not any coconut water rain in nature either!!
You are on track. Good job. Try things and test what works for you. Many growers do well with water only. Many times I see growers cause more harm by overfeeding rather than letting the plant and soil food web do there job.
Josh Steensland. Very cool, He gives good advice and grows nice looking plants. He is nice to people and helps.
Happy to see people helping and sharing in a positive way.
What kind of foliar sprays? You mean basically any botanical feed?Foliar sprays help plants to exude more sugars (exudates) via the roots.
The roots produce sugars called exudates. The increased levels of exudates help to feed the microbial life and there fore helps with the uptake of microbial metabolites.
As @leadsled will agree, the most important thing you can do in developing a killer soil mix is get your bulk soil tested before amending!!!! There is a balance in the biology of soil and how it all works. Without a soil test you are just adding a bunch of minerals and such that you may not even need. But hell it sure sounds good to say I put xy&z into my mix even though I am overdosing the soil with excess minerals.Logan labs soil test. Costs $25-30.00. good bang for your buck. I
No reason to be conflicted. If you do not want to end up with a mix that is unbalanced. Than make a few small changes.
Use ag lime/oystershell flour and gypsum not dolomite. Use 1lb or less rock dust. Cut the compost down to 10% or less. Then use EWC to make up the difference. Cut the neem rate in half. Add trace minerals. Then you got a mix that will perform better than one that has excess potassium, elevated ph and a lack of exchangeable hydrogen.
Good idea to test both in your environment.
Both coot mix and KIS are shooting the same ratios of nutrients (Albrecht) but different ratios of peat compost and aeration. KIS uses a lab to test and then amend the soil with the appropriate minerals.
Balanced soil is the proper home for the soil food web. Higher uptake of nutrients, higher levels of pest and disease resistance. All the things living organic soil should be.
Using excessive amounts of amendments is not mimicking the soil food web. Excess nitrogen prevent a healthy plant from achieving higher brix levels. The runoff can harm the earth.
Unfortunately coot throws the soil out after each run, he is not a no till grower.
I am liking the wollastonite so far. Also testing DE and silica dioxide.
Happy Growing
HE THROWS THE SOIL OUT WITH EACH RUN??!?!? Where did you hear that? on the GC thread he states repeatedly things like "Now for al the reasons previously stated your soil is becoming richer and richer as the water and nutrient retaining ability of your soil improves over time. By the 3rd cycle the plants may already be showing signs that you could back off on the above watering schedule and that can be done any number of ways to best suit your situation." or "I run 15s, 20s & 45s all ranging between 13-18 cycles. I haven't made a new batch of soil in at least three years with one exception and that's also a topic of discussion here shortly."No reason to be conflicted. If you do not want to end up with a mix that is unbalanced. Than make a few small changes.
Use ag lime/oystershell flour and gypsum not dolomite. Use 1lb or less rock dust. Cut the compost down to 10% or less. Then use EWC to make up the difference. Cut the neem rate in half. Add trace minerals. Then you got a mix that will perform better than one that has excess potassium, elevated ph and a lack of exchangeable hydrogen.
Good idea to test both in your environment.
Both coot mix and KIS are shooting the same ratios of nutrients (Albrecht) but different ratios of peat compost and aeration. KIS uses a lab to test and then amend the soil with the appropriate minerals.
Balanced soil is the proper home for the soil food web. Higher uptake of nutrients, higher levels of pest and disease resistance. All the things living organic soil should be.
Using excessive amounts of amendments is not mimicking the soil food web. Excess nitrogen prevent a healthy plant from achieving higher brix levels. The runoff can harm the earth.
Unfortunately coot throws the soil out after each run, he is not a no till grower.
I am liking the wollastonite so far. Also testing DE and silica dioxide.
Happy Growing
HE THROWS THE SOIL OUT WITH EACH RUN??!?!? Where did you hear that? on the GC thread he states repeatedly things like "Now for al the reasons previously stated your soil is becoming richer and richer as the water and nutrient retaining ability of your soil improves over time. By the 3rd cycle the plants may already be showing signs that you could back off on the above watering schedule and that can be done any number of ways to best suit your situation." or "I run 15s, 20s & 45s all ranging between 13-18 cycles. I haven't made a new batch of soil in at least three years with one exception and that's also a topic of discussion here shortly."
Now im getting really conflicting info! I'm just trying to wrap my head around it!
edit: Im not trying to be the devil's advocate, its just those are very different reports on the same method! Im on page 60 or so and i remember him saying something to effect of "trying to amend every cycle to keep perfect nutrient ratios is a fool's errand" Now im not sold on ether variant of methodology. The getting the proper ratios is what i've always leaned toward but i wouldn't even be talking to-till, recycled soil if it wasnt for coot. am i just totally lost here? drawing wrong conclusions?