Lst Schwazzing!

[EventHorizan]

Hahahaha


That is the main thing. What works for one might not work for another. It's all about what benefits you.
And like I said before this is about gaining small advantages. I don't think a plant that harvested 1/2 lb could have harvested 3/4 if defoliated. Not at all. But any small advantages YOU can gain and imply to YOUR Grow is the idea. It's the small details. It could prove to be worthless or even detrimental TO ME. or it could prove to add a small amount to MY bud production. And if it does I want it to be shared with others so they can decide if it's something that would help THEM.
My feeling is that in my situation it will help. with 1 1k light I don't want to go outside a 4x4 area. It will allow more budsites to thrive and receive more light and much more airflow.

I'm jumping over to your thread to bug you now. I don't want to annoy anyone on here. I enjoy discussing this stuff I hope nobody got annoyed. Lol

cool beans.. Im leaving now.. Should be there soon :(

 

[Wisher619]

I defol for many reasons and actually light is pretty far down the list
to me it stops the plant from stretching and redirects its energy into focusing on flowers
causes certain hormones to kick in
it knows that it is in flower and wants to procreate and when all the leaves are gone it knows it has to push those flowers out to finish
if you have all your canopy even
it will redirect to all tops recieving light
I also notice that whether you defol or not
depending on the genetics
the plant will either grow good buds all the way down or it wont

with my Landrace she is producing buds all the way down
that are as big as my top colas on my indica

and I would have to reiterate that differ strokes for differ folks

for instance

I very much Dislike DWC/RDWC

but I began helping @EventHorizan and have tried to help him along as much as my knowledge base can

liking the grow style he likes is not the main focus
the main focus is building his knowledge and experience in what he wants because the end product is always the same
Cannabis
lest we not forget this

we need to stop bashing people for our disagreements

and by the way

I think that many good scientific pappers were posted on the subject of defol on differ crops
and they have always been positive

every large scale grower defols *shhhh*

the dude that I learned from used to strip leaves once a week from veg to about day 21 of flower....in the early 90's
I do it at day 14 of flower to stop stretch and distribute auxins

but this is me

 

[Thejoeybrown]

I defol for many reasons and actually light is pretty far down the list
to me it stops the plant from stretching and redirects its energy into focusing on flowers
causes certain hormones to kick in
it knows that it is in flower and wants to procreate and when all the leaves are gone it knows it has to push those flowers out to finish
if you have all your canopy even
it will redirect to all tops recieving light
I also notice that whether you defol or not
depending on the genetics
the plant will either grow good buds all the way down or it wont

with my Landrace she is producing buds all the way down
that are as big as my top colas on my indica

and I would have to reiterate that differ strokes for differ folks

for instance

I very much Dislike DWC/RDWC

but I began helping @EventHorizan and have tried to help him along as much as my knowledge base can

liking the grow style he likes is not the main focus
the main focus is building his knowledge and experience in what he wants because the end product is always the same
Cannabis
lest we not forget this

we need to stop bashing people for our disagreements

and by the way

I think that many good scientific pappers were posted on the subject of defol on differ crops
and they have always been positive

every large scale grower defols *shhhh*

the dude that I learned from used to strip leaves once a week from veg to about day 21 of flower....in the early 90's
I do it at day 14 of flower to stop stretch and distribute auxins

but this is me

Yes I have read a few things and like I was saying earlier it is hard to find marijuana specific studies because they do not have the resources or funding to do a real study.

The only real study will be what I decide after doing for myself. And that should be every growers mindset IMO.

From what I've read and heard and seen from people I think it will benefit my Grow but I might found out that it doesn't work for me. And if so that's fine.

 

[EventHorizan]

I very much Dislike DWC/RDWC

but I began helping @EventHorizan and have tried to help him along as much as my knowledge base can

there you go again lol...
He is right,,, im am a Right Wing RDWC extremist.......
Father,, it was my destiny!

 

[Wisher619]

there you go again lol...
He is right,,, im am a Right Wing RDWC extremist.......
Father,, it was my destiny!

and I have givin him all the knowledge I have......and he has choosen his destiny

 

[EventHorizan]

and I have givin him all the knowledge I have......and he has choosen his destiny

root rot lol
:)

 

[Organikz]

Oh slow down on going there! Demon is a great grower yes, but a potm picture isnt shit nor is winning an online pic contest. I won grower of the month! Really! Get the truck out of here with that bs!
Hell a new grower got top 3, with a bum ass pic.. This is a retarded ass conversation because of a lot of innuendos for personal gain. There aint one mutherfreaker here with a degree!

To defol or not to defol, who gives a fuck? None of us have the same setup, lights, environment. As for the opinions of more than just this thread, Some of them commenting use hid lights, some use c02, and some cant even spell c02..

I see members that just made it thru there first grow commenting...Oh great you made it to harvest with a plant in ffof feeding water and tea! Well son of a beach you ought to join nasa, and end the food shortage problem... I can take demon and put him in an RDWC system, and I guarantee he is gonna stub his toe! So anybody here that thinks there smarter, or better, is bullshit.. And what are we talking? Another 100 grams? 200? Most of them commenters are prob losing more than that in their showty setup... So many diff things go into this...

And just for the record i stripped all the fans off, and with in a week it was so full I had to do it again!
What was my thoughts on it? A lot more investigation into WHY IT WORKS FOR SOME AND NOT FOR OTHERS, BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS
IT DOES WORK FOR SOME, AND NOT SO WELL FOR OTHERS..
So a real seeker of knowledge would not hurl insults at someone for experimenting, instead he would lay out the ways to help pull that info from the experiments..

Oh and I got 20000 likes for my posts, so I must be super Paw Paw Zan the growing machine...
Ya sure Bo.....

cmon brothers, Are we brothers together in the struggle, or are we all just a bunch of self righteous assholes who are trying to outshow one another...
If someone wants to defol, urge them on, and help them make good decisions when!

See that is what this thread should be about.
When, and why, and your opinion on that!
Just taking demons word for it, wtf is he, Ed Rosenthal?
Just another grower... that doesnt even have the experience of rdwc to even quote on, so how can somebody who hasnt used all effective growing parameters be able to honestly comment about the effects of defol in DWC, where growth and new fan growth is exponentially higher!

Dont take that to hard deamon, I needed someone to use as an example and since he thew you out there, i used you as the example.. My point isnt that you dont know what your doing, my point is that ppl instead of doing their own research, instead just take someones word for it... and then repost it when someone else is asking for previous advice to do their own experiment, and make their own decision!
AND YOU KNOW I JUST GAVE YOU PROPS ON YOUR POTM WINNER IN WHICH I VOTED FOR YOU :)

I see a lot of times on here when someone shoots down somebody else for experimenting...
Here is ther truth for all of us..
Aint none of us special!
This isnt some great thing to accomplish.
Its pretty simple to be honest and all the bs repeated in these forums is what makes it hard...

Rant over...
You can continue with your ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING :)

What's this about bro? Chill out. Yah I've done my research. Here ya go. It's science bro not opinion. I literally laid out the science and told him to draw his own conclusion.

"Manipulation experiments
Manipulating the source:sink balance shows that source and sink strengths often operate below their full potential, due to the limitations imposed by environmental and developmental changes discussed above. Historically, such manipulations involved physically manipulating the plant or its environment: for example, source activity may be altered by elevated CO2, defoliation, or shading, while sink activity may be altered by sink removal or sink chilling. However, modern genetic approaches may now be used to alter source and sink activity with greater elegance. Table 1 outlines a range of source:sink manipulations and summarizes their results. Broadly speaking, increasing either source or sink may increase growth, suggesting that both can limit growth to a certain extent. Sources and sinks regulate each other by molecular feedback mechanisms (discussed later), and evidence for these is seen at the whole-plant scale when manipulation of the source affects sink activity, and vice versa."

cite -

 

[EventHorizan]

What's this about bro? Chill out. Yah I've done my research. Here ya go. It's science bro not opinion. I literally laid out the science and told him to draw his own conclusion.

"Manipulation experiments
Manipulating the source:sink balance shows that source and sink strengths often operate below their full potential, due to the limitations imposed by environmental and developmental changes discussed above. Historically, such manipulations involved physically manipulating the plant or its environment: for example, source activity may be altered by elevated CO2, defoliation, or shading, while sink activity may be altered by sink removal or sink chilling. However, modern genetic approaches may now be used to alter source and sink activity with greater elegance. Table 1 outlines a range of source:sink manipulations and summarizes their results. Broadly speaking, increasing either source or sink may increase growth, suggesting that both can limit growth to a certain extent. Sources and sinks regulate each other by molecular feedback mechanisms (discussed later), and evidence for these is seen at the whole-plant scale when manipulation of the source affects sink activity, and vice versa."

cite -

What's this about bro? Chill out. Yah I've done my research. Here ya go. It's science bro not opinion. I literally laid out the science and told him to draw his own conclusion.

"Manipulation experiments
Manipulating the source:sink balance shows that source and sink strengths often operate below their full potential, due to the limitations imposed by environmental and developmental changes discussed above. Historically, such manipulations involved physically manipulating the plant or its environment: for example, source activity may be altered by elevated CO2, defoliation, or shading, while sink activity may be altered by sink removal or sink chilling. However, modern genetic approaches may now be used to alter source and sink activity with greater elegance. Table 1 outlines a range of source:sink manipulations and summarizes their results. Broadly speaking, increasing either source or sink may increase growth, suggesting that both can limit growth to a certain extent. Sources and sinks regulate each other by molecular feedback mechanisms (discussed later), and evidence for these is seen at the whole-plant scale when manipulation of the source affects sink activity, and vice versa."

cite -

My bad,,, I hadnt smoked yet...
It did come off a lil more harsh than my intentions...
My apology!
U might say I was low on the SOURCE
and high in the sink :)

 

[Organikz]

My bad,,, I hadnt smoked yet...
It did come off a lil more harsh than my intentions...
My apology!
U might say I was low on the SOURCE
and high in the sink :)

It's cool. You caught me way off guard. You have to understand that I research everything because listening to what a guy tells you grows the best bud ever ends up being a waste of money. NTG is about cutting out any bottles so we don't research the newest nute line. We research a better way to get worm poop in your plant. Our goal is to get to a closed loop. That's what i research. You can probably tell me the best new hydro pump....i know zilch about hydro. I would hit a wall at 100mph. Not just stub mah toe

I've wasted enough money

I also want.to mention you don't want your plant focusing sugars on growing leaves. The stretch happens to your roots too. Save you sugar for the growth that isn't already there...lol

 

[EventHorizan]

It's cool. You caught me way off guard. You have to understand that I research everything because listening to what a guy tells you grows the best bud ever ends up being a waste of money. NTG is about cutting out any bottles so we don't research the newest nute line. We research a better way to get worm poop in your plant. Our goal is to get to a closed loop. That's what i research. You can probably tell me the best new hydro pump....i know zilch about hydro. I would hit a wall at 100mph. Not just stub mah toe

I've wasted enough money

I also want.to mention you don't want your plant focusing sugars on growing leaves. The stretch happens to your roots too. Save you sugar for the growth that isn't already there...lol

I understand. I know pretty much nothing about organic.

Its all good..
Maybe tho, in hydro, I grow them leaves back in a few days where it takes soil over 2 weeks... Knowing that would u consider that we both might have 2 different outcomes?
And if you agree with that, do you also think it a dumb statement to tell another grower that if he tries that, he might as well pack his shit up. and buy from a dispensary? I just thought that was kind of harsh, and then Mcds ran out of lettuce, and it went down hill from there!

 

[Wisher619]

What's this about bro? Chill out. Yah I've done my research. Here ya go. It's science bro not opinion. I literally laid out the science and told him to draw his own conclusion.

"Manipulation experiments
Manipulating the source:sink balance shows that source and sink strengths often operate below their full potential, due to the limitations imposed by environmental and developmental changes discussed above. Historically, such manipulations involved physically manipulating the plant or its environment: for example, source activity may be altered by elevated CO2, defoliation, or shading, while sink activity may be altered by sink removal or sink chilling. However, modern genetic approaches may now be used to alter source and sink activity with greater elegance. Table 1 outlines a range of source:sink manipulations and summarizes their results. Broadly speaking, increasing either source or sink may increase growth, suggesting that both can limit growth to a certain extent. Sources and sinks regulate each other by molecular feedback mechanisms (discussed later), and evidence for these is seen at the whole-plant scale when manipulation of the source affects sink activity, and vice versa."

cite -

I am not trying to be a dick but your science papers literally have nothing to do with defoliating cannabis
not only did they not test on cannabis but they were testing specifically for speed of production which has nothing to do with defol cannabis
as well
Large fan leaves store nutrients for plant growth *taller/more branches/thicker stalk*
bud sites have their own fan/water leaves that solely consentration on growin flowers

your arguement is completely mute

earlier in this thread there were science papers posted about defol upping crop production
not specifically speeding up production

see what pisses me off about arguements like these are the "Anti's"
always bring out papers that have nothing to do with the topic at hand but they always try to corolate it with much stretch...to the topic at hand
which is upping flower production by defoliating
has nothing to do with Sinks and faster growth
yeah....if I Want to slow down my plants in veg....heavy defol
sets them back about a week
day 14 of flower defol
sets them back maybe a few days to a week depending on CO2 enrichment or not
but then you will notice you just grow buds....heavy buds

bottom line
if anyone on this message board can show me a grow....equal to say "The Jungle Boys"/TLC collective not being defoled I will eat crow
every single commercial grower
from Nevada to Washington Stae and right here in Cali......to A-dam all defol

they either are doing it wrong or.........

again please dont take this the wrong way....I am not trying to bash you

but what I noticed is you have a preconceived notion of your belief system and you go find science that may back it....if you stretch it a little

show me a paper that is a pier reviewed blind study specifically conducting defol techniques on cannabis plants and I will bow to your Science.....until then it is all junk science.....

 

[Organikz]

I understand. I know pretty much nothing about organic.

Its all good..
Maybe tho, in hydro, I grow them leaves back in a few days where it takes soil over 2 weeks... Knowing that would u consider that we both might have 2 different outcomes?
And if you agree with that, do you also think it a dumb statement to tell another grower that if he tries that, he might as well pack his shit up. and buy from a dispensary? I just thought that was kind of harsh, and then Mcds ran out of lettuce, and it went down hill from there!

Perhaps...in organics our plant regulates nitrogen uptake as long as everything else is in check and they don't like it at all in flower because our sources are full. I don't get much above ground stretch. I need my stretch in the roots. You can tune your feeds. See there's my lack of hydro knowledge. We dont really get much leaf regrowth. I would basically stunt all aspects of the plants process.

I am not trying to be a dick but your science papers literally have nothing to do with defoliating cannabis
not only did they not test on cannabis but they were testing specifically for speed of production which has nothing to do with defol cannabis
as well
Large fan leaves store nutrients for plant growth *taller/more branches/thicker stalk*
bud sites have their own fan/water leaves that solely consentration on growin flowers

your arguement is completely mute

earlier in this thread there were science papers posted about defol upping crop production
not specifically speeding up production

see what pisses me off about arguements like these are the "Anti's"
always bring out papers that have nothing to do with the topic at hand but they always try to corolate it with much stretch...to the topic at hand
which is upping flower production by defoliating
has nothing to do with Sinks and faster growth
yeah....if I Want to slow down my plants in veg....heavy defol
sets them back about a week
day 14 of flower defol
sets them back maybe a few days to a week depending on CO2 enrichment or not
but then you will notice you just grow buds....heavy buds

bottom line
if anyone on this message board can show me a grow....equal to say "The Jungle Boys"/TLC collective not being defoled I will eat crow
every single commercial grower
from Nevada to Washington Stae and right here in Cali......to A-dam all defol

they either are doing it wrong or.........

again please dont take this the wrong way....I am not trying to bash you

but what I noticed is you have a preconceived notion of your belief system and you go find science that may back it....if you stretch it a little

show me a paper that is a pier reviewed blind study specifically conducting defol techniques on cannabis plants and I will bow to your Science.....until then it is all junk science.....

I'm not seeing how it has nothing to do with the topic. It literally states the exact topic. It had negative effect on crops across the board. I don't want to argue about it. It is what it is.

This is what growers such as Clackamas coot and those guys used to perfect their grows. They have developed a tried and true system by researching agricultural science papers.

It's the best comparison we as cannabis growers have as of yet but I think it worked for coots....people buy his soil for the cost of fox farms.

Have you heard of a seed sprout tea? That concept came from agricultural research studies. Cannabis is not some Martian plant. Its life cycle most closely resembles a.fruiting plant.

 

[Organikz]

I don't want to continue back and forth anymore. If it works for you go for it.

 

[EventHorizan]

Perhaps...in organics our plant regulates nitrogen uptake as long as everything else is in check and they don't like it at all in flower because our sources are full. I don't get much above ground stretch. I need my stretch in the roots. You can tune your feeds. See there's my lack of hydro knowledge. We dont really get much leaf regrowth. I would basically stunt all aspects of the plants process.

I'm not seeing how it has nothing to do with the topic. It literally states the exact topic. It had negative effect on crops across the board. I don't want to argue about it. It is what it is.

This is what growers such as Clackamas coot and those guys used to perfect their grows. They have developed a tried and true system by researching agricultural science papers.

It's the best comparison we as cannabis growers have as of yet but I think it worked for coots....people buy his soil for the cost of fox farms.

Have you heard of a seed sprout tea? That concept came from agricultural research studies. Cannabis is not some Martian plant. Its life cycle most closely resembles a.fruiting plant.

Well idk about that.. What I do know is that im a rookie, but you better bring the whole damn science department from UCLA if you want to debate this with wisher.. The boy has done his homework!
As for saying you didnt want to argue, its debating, not arguing...
And as for that statement, when you post any statement you open yourself up to cross examination...
Cmon brother your a good dude, i know i have talked to you!
I give you props on doing your own reading, and studying, because in the end that is all we can do, study, experiment, and come up with are own conclusions..

It is a good point that most studies have not included cannabis cultivation, and most cultivators that do study cannabis I dont think they post significant amounts of thier conclusions..

I think we do all of ourselves a dis service when we shut down a fellow grower from experimenting... The thread went downhill when it was said, you will ( HAVE NEGATIVE ) if you defol...
Prob should of been stated as, ( When I defol, i didnt have the positive results) that I was looking for... Here is what i did, and when I did... Now we can study and tweak a few things compared to his run with defol.. Soon everyone can piggyback off of each others findings, and then we have a difinitive answer..
There isnt no UCLA that is gonna come in and give us tha answers,, that is up to ALL of us...


Now lets all shake hands, swap ole ladies, and get back to doing what we do! :)
lmao...

 

[Snakeskins]

Well Monday will wrap up the final veg week and I'll be ready to defoliate just before I flip them. It will be my own experiment as I will to try leave one of the bigger plants and both the smaller plants uncut. Another factor will be the sex of the plants(no idea). But I will keep you all posted with hopefully clear results. Basically pruned plant vs. unpruned plant growth and yield. This will prove it once and for all. Lol :)
#defoliating vs. not defoliating

 

[Wisher619]

I think I will do an experiment for the *organic* growers
I will defol completely an in ground "No Till/No Feed/No Water" plant
I will take a pic every day and post it here

 

[EventHorizan]

I think I will do an experiment for the *organic* growers
I will defol completely an in ground "No Till/No Feed/No Water" plant
I will take a pic every day and post it here

Thats right! Show dem homie, Tupac aint dead :)

At least you will put your money(literally) where your mouth is...

All right Willis, you better make us proud!

 

[Snakeskins]

There are plenty of pictures of defoliated plants and their results but try finding the results of non defoliated plants. Not entirely sure, but I think this might be one from an article:

No-Technique Plant Training - This is cannabis plant training in its most basic form. If it's your first grow and you want to keep things simple, or if you don't have much time and want to do the bare minimum to get results, this is for you!

The main stem was bent over 90° when the plant was very young, so all the lower branches were able to grow up and become main colas. Bending the main stem was the only training done to this plant, no fancy techniques!

 

[Snakeskins]

You can see how tiny the buds are on the bottom half of the plant.

 

[EventHorizan]

You can see how tiny the buds are on the bottom half of the plant.

that is why you lollipop..
That is just lsting to bring the bottom branches to the top.. Defol takes on a different approach..