Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

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Ecompost

Ecompost

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By we I'm assuming you're the owner of a company? Do you have to do a process similar to synthesizing colloidal silver...idk you hear some shit on the net. Sorry to bug ya bro. You have really got me interested. A contact killer is what this sounds like.
I am a farmer mate, Citrus Fruit, Nuts, Olives and annuals mostly. i work with Better Organix as a technical director and so by default i am a we :-) We use a simple and common organic acid extraction. The recovered material is nano milled to allow easier application via a dry blower
 
Organikz

Organikz

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Well I was thinking I would be having to do 1 till after this grow. Sometimes we try to go cheaper I went cheaper in the wrong places. The compost from home depot isn't compost. Its loaded with pieces of whole hardwood twigs. An uncharged biochar on top of that...my plants don't get much love from the micro.

I know the worms will turn the junk inro gold. Could be my imagination bit I swear my bed has sunk an inch nd a half since i put the worms in. That tells you that compost is terrible.

Coot raises hell about people using inferior humus sources and claiming his mix doesn't work. The best vermicompost comes from black leaf mold which I can aquire this fall. My house is located in a white oak forest. I've filled the pots with double munched leaf compost. I'm sure you read about lasagna layering. Now I'm at a crossroads. Work at building the biology. Maybe strip the mulch and add another 1" layer of pure casting. Top that with some MBP, karanja, and kelp. This was advised by coots if you're already established with poor humus source. I may have to drop big bucks on worm gold to really get it going. Like I said I've zoned in 2 hard on building soil biology with teas. Causing a bit of overwatering.

A lot of long time no till guys never brew a tea. They use a "EWC slurry" mixed with kelp or alfalfa...alfa be a bit hot so it needs to cook in the EWC for a week before making this slurry. Very similar to a tea except the ratio to water and EWC is 1:1 and you only bubble 6-18 hours. Spread it over your soil surface. Should have the consistency of a very creamy peanut butter.

Teas are out because bluejay explains all the enzymatic activity going on in a tea and he wants that to happen in his soil. As I noticed with a blumat all these inputs aren't viable. I use alfalfa straw as mulch which covers a lot of bioactivator teas. The worms love the stuff. When i took my other bed down the castings were holding all the mulch in clumps.
 
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Organikz

Organikz

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I dont mean to spam this thread but like I said you guys are cool as hell and you understand metabolic processes of a plant and soil solution chemistry.

A hydro guy tried to call my diagnosis wrong and said the plants not getting enough light was causing burned tips and edges. Saying I'm spreading false information. The same guys that tell you to cut off your leaves before budding and "feed" sugar to the plants...

I was about to go back to grasscity but seeing there is actually a higher learning to be had here with this thread. @oldskol4evr it's a small little piece of real estate here but I'm sticking around because of this thread. I need to look into Bach comfrey....sidenote: named after the road where it was developed not the man who developed it...i believe this is the one that doesnt spread...i know comfrey is invasive if you aren't careful. One little piece will grow into a whole plant without any tending to propogation and the stuff is impossible to totally remove.
 
GT21

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I dont mean to spam this thread but like I said you guys are cool as hell and you understand metabolic processes of a plant and soil solution chemistry.

A hydro guy tried to call my diagnosis wrong and said the plants not getting enough light was causing burned tips and edges. Saying I'm spreading false information. The same guys that tell you to cut off your leaves before budding and "feed" sugar to the plants...

I was about to go back to grasscity but seeing there is actually a higher learning to be had here with this thread. @oldskol4evr it's a small little piece of real estate here but I'm sticking around because of this thread. I need to look into Bach comfrey....sidenote: named after the road where it was developed not the man who developed it...i believe this is the one that doesnt spread...i know comfrey is invasive if you aren't careful. One little piece will grow into a whole plant without any tending to propogation and the stuff is impossible to totally remove.
Holy shit grass city hahaha..... some real bad info there.... they got old guys pushing 1970s grow skills... like nutes, lights and dirts have not changed
 
Organikz

Organikz

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Holy shit grass city hahaha..... some real bad info there.... they got old guys pushing 1970s grow skills... like nutes, lights and dirts have not changed
I felt the same way but honestly the simple methods work. One guy still uses standard LOS recipe.

I began to understand when you start making things complicated...well things get complicated.

They do follow adjustments coot makes. He's down to MBP, karanja, and kelp meal for nutrient amendments. He found that MBP and high quality castings cover liming and chitin source even more effectively as crab meal. it can be broken down faster due to thinner layers of carbonate releasing more chotinase. The guy knows his shit and he wont put something out until hes tested it on the same cut from afganistan he aquired in the 70s. Crazy huh? Its smart. He can read this strain like a book so he can truly see how tweaked inputs affect them. His amendments, they're all really more geared toward feeding the soil.
 
Organikz

Organikz

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Reading too much has gotten me into trouble. As humans we read info and all of a sudden that's the answer to any problem in referring to organics. Thats our credo. The trick is dont stay focused. If i see deficiencies i ignore and just continue business as usual. We tend to overcorrect because nature is already workimg on balancing it out. The true fix to any problem is a "fix anything EWC slurry". Mix a 1/4 cup of kelp meal in there and your plants will start throwing nodes like there's no tomorrow. Pray like it's sunday every day.
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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Word :)
Char is the best way to tame saline land and or to restore land that has been subjected to synthetics and poor practice, Carbon is the answer to long term soil fertility, but it comes at a huge cost in the dynamic gases released in its production when this is char alone. if the whole world started making bio char tomorrow, there would be all manner of consequences, just as there are now with the bypassing of system failure via additional synthetic nitrogen. IMO char is part of the solution, as is inoculation, humic acid, compost, mulching, cover crops, companion planting, rotation, reduction in the use of synthetics, tillage, irrigation which we know cause problems with soil carbon, compaction, aggregation, biology and so sustainability.
The key is always to know what you got first and then decide whats needed.

You can only re introduce Nitrogen using Clover, if there is sufficient Phosphate, Potassium and other micros like Mg, Mn, Zn, B and so on present to power the system of clover development, and then you need the calcium present or there will be no bridge between the clover N and the clays themselves in order that any other plant might benefit. Not knowing whats in the soil might mean we are feeding pathogens via Rhizobia and nothing more.
It is super complicated to keep soil systems peaking in any high intensity system, and not just as simple as sowing a shit load of clover or other, or even dumping a load of char in without knowing if this is for adding or removing.
Same with super soils, whats going on and when? Do we care about this or just that it works, or seems to work, or people say it works? The list of things i see is bizarre, its often like a complicated curry and i have never analyzed any soil and found so much matter in one location. i honestly think people would be surprised at just how little they can get away with to produce a healthy plant. Percentages of matter in soil recipes and the like seem about as solid science as the European unions 3% debt to GDP policy, ie that they are made up based on nothing more than one guy saying 3% in response to a question no one understood to begin with.
I dont think we should start making soil, until we know what soil is, but this is just me I guess and i dont take away anyone using super soil, its attractive just being able to use water un ph'd etc. i just cant see this as flexible enough to adjust when deficiency strikes, and so i myself prefer to use bottles and biology to affect decent media; clays (red, white and black in basic language) + other zeolites converted from leonardite for example, loam, sand, compost, coco fibre, rice huills, all of which sit together easily and can be brought cheaply, thats my super soil, its not far off what i can dig up anywhere :)

I am saddened to see cover cropping being discussed as if we can simply grow alternate crops without first understanding our systems, and or building a program of IFM (Integrated fertility management) that allows us such freedom as is currently being sold by the idea of simply planting some other thing in the dirt to get back to soil. Just as its complex to grow MJ, so it is any other plant, esp when one is trying to bring to life a seed in common dirt.

I have a question too? What is the difference in protein accumulation and or gene expression of our cannabis plant, if bacillus subtilus is the dominant root organism at the point of seed germination, versus the same seed and plant that has been tickled to life by glomus intraradices? Is there a difference in the outcome for the plant and so for us as consumers? Any ideas are very welcome... :)
this i cant ansewer,but this i know,,with weed there is a difrence in the soil biology,,probally why it does best at 6.5,thats to include all weeds,,get to 7 and you have good tree bioligy,,im asuming under 6.is were you get your dry state plants as in cactus,,im considering planting cover crop for 1 keep my soil alive when im not using it for winter conditions,2 i want to plant my crop right in and not disturbed for bug prevention,,the cover crop provide nitrogen mainly,but also benifit the soil and bioligy,,thats my thinking any way,,even without cover crop i water my soil to keep it alive,,probally dont but i think everything needs a drink,lmao but with that being said,the last place i lived i notice the soil had to much nitrogen,,only clover would grow were grass seed wouldnt even germ in it,,so ya there is a point of too much,,far as char goes ,i do think i can do well in it ,just from my crazy temp swings and water table,,temps are triple digits all the way in dec at times,,and rain shit,,takes what we just had a hurricane to provide us with water,,im vision the char holding on to my nutrient longer and preventing leaching so much,,raised bed on a rock bed,,so it goes out quick just threw feeding the plants so much,,bettween peat moss, char,compost,mulch,maybe i can prevent so much water use,,mt water is very alkaline so i got to do something,,taking 5 gal bucket of treated water down this hill aint getting it,lol will all this help i hope so,garunteed ,highly doubt,but got to keep moving forward cause i love the game,lol as far as a water only soil i dont think it will happen just for the fact of what is and will always be in are water table,,we cant control others,,hell they dump shit when we sleep so to speek,and everything goes down hill,,thats why i always ask about these studies,what method of the water table was used,,because regaurdless of methods we all do,when it come down to it,we,plants are water and need it for survival,,so i dont know eco,i cant answer that one at all,lmao
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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clay has a negative charge..compaction happens in many cases, when we overload clay with cations (+ elements) like mg, na, k, so on. As some of the clays become positive, the net effect is for the previously like particles, to become bound together. Char will help reduce the threat of overloading delicate clay charges by soaking up excess soil cations.
Understand soil is in most of the world, negatively charged. It is this we must maintain, and that aint easy when we have plants wanting to consume soil cations, meaning we must add more + nutrients. Only by knowing the cec capacity of any soil, can you know the limit of cation holding capacity, before we break the system. + to - equals bind, binding drives out oxygen, this kills life like our plants. Dont overload soils with Cations and dont get the issue of compaction, well unless you park a tank on your pots. :)
haahahh right,,im a tank,thats why i use raised beds,lmao
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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I am a farmer mate, Citrus Fruit, Nuts, Olives and annuals mostly. i work with Better Organix as a technical director and so by default i am a we :) We use a simple and common organic acid extraction. The recovered material is nano milled to allow easier application via a dry blower
the kamino and bio intate,i talk of all the time,,this is were i get it,,we talk about bottle nutrients all the time,,these are in bottles,but for shipping only,,all the products would blow your mind,and all made from the great mother earth all organic
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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I dont mean to spam this thread but like I said you guys are cool as hell and you understand metabolic processes of a plant and soil solution chemistry.

A hydro guy tried to call my diagnosis wrong and said the plants not getting enough light was causing burned tips and edges. Saying I'm spreading false information. The same guys that tell you to cut off your leaves before budding and "feed" sugar to the plants...

I was about to go back to grasscity but seeing there is actually a higher learning to be had here with this thread. @oldskol4evr it's a small little piece of real estate here but I'm sticking around because of this thread. I need to look into Bach comfrey....sidenote: named after the road where it was developed not the man who developed it...i believe this is the one that doesnt spread...i know comfrey is invasive if you aren't careful. One little piece will grow into a whole plant without any tending to propogation and the stuff is impossible to totally remove.
that is a fact,,i pulled some by the root and thought i had killed it,,its back,,i put the whole leafs in my compost pile and i fill 5 gal buckets with it and break down to a juice,,stuff has many uses
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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LOL gets a bit confusing,I'm thinking i'll go slow the first try with this a charged 5 gallon bucket per 4 by 4 raised bed
thats about right,,i got 5 3x12 beds and planned on 5 gal bucket on each and my 10 x12 bed doing 6 or 7 gallons,,but the goal is in the compost and distributing it threw the compost layer,,i got one pile been cooking about a month now and i have about 20lbs in it,i screened mine down with hardware clothe,1/4 in squares,and all my coffe ,tea bags and table scraps are put in weekly,,i refuse to use meat products or acidic fruits,,that draws in rats and i dont want them,lmao im gonna starts some trash bags with potato in them next couple days,using that same compost and peatmoss,,we will see in about 3 months the outcome,,but as far as my beds go,,they are complete in 2 more weeks im sending in another soil sample for testing,,all the char will be distributed in compost,,looking like im gonna have to buy some to,,i can get a yrd of chicken manure or animal manure for 35 bucks,,i just like making my own to see if i can do better,lol best compost i ever used was mushroom compost,,had a mushroom plant just 30 minutes from house when i lived in east texas,,you paid 10 bucks at gate,went back there with 16ft trailer and one scoop from the loader wouldnt fit unless you had extra springs on the trailer,,you had to stop them from loading,on scoop would pop the tires out,,but they give you a ticket to come back and get rest of load,,when you come back they load that bitch down again,,lol,i asure you even the best shaped individual wouldnt come back for more after shoveling 2 trailer loads,lmao
 
tifosi

tifosi

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thats about right,,i got 5 3x12 beds and planned on 5 gal bucket on each and my 10 x12 bed doing 6 or 7 gallons,,but the goal is in the compost and distributing it threw the compost layer,,i got one pile been cooking about a month now and i have about 20lbs in it,i screened mine down with hardware clothe,1/4 in squares,and all my coffe ,tea bags and table scraps are put in weekly,,i refuse to use meat products or acidic fruits,,that draws in rats and i dont want them,lmao im gonna starts some trash bags with potato in them next couple days,using that same compost and peatmoss,,we will see in about 3 months the outcome,,but as far as my beds go,,they are complete in 2 more weeks im sending in another soil sample for testing,,all the char will be distributed in compost,,looking like im gonna have to buy some to,,i can get a yrd of chicken manure or animal manure for 35 bucks,,i just like making my own to see if i can do better,lol best compost i ever used was mushroom compost,,had a mushroom plant just 30 minutes from house when i lived in east texas,,you paid 10 bucks at gate,went back there with 16ft trailer and one scoop from the loader wouldnt fit unless you had extra springs on the trailer,,you had to stop them from loading,on scoop would pop the tires out,,but they give you a ticket to come back and get rest of load,,when you come back they load that bitch down again,,lol,i asure you even the best shaped individual wouldnt come back for more after shoveling 2 trailer loads,lmao
I'm making a tea today all my plants are using full flowering nutes should i leave out the chicken manure? This year has been a test run with all organic ingredients for me so far I'm liking it.I hope to amend & plant next year will be the test.
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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I'm making a tea today all my plants are using full flowering nutes should i leave out the chicken manure? This year has been a test run with all organic ingredients for me so far I'm liking it.I hope to amend & plant next year will be the test.
if they dont need nit i wouldnt use it,,but tea wont burn them,see thats were a lot of folk get confused with char,,it holds on to the nutrients and distrubute,,so when you have a set mix of nutes you been using and everything was fine,just decrease the amount as if you were starting a baby and work up,,thats the reasoning behind charging it if you have extra tea,throw that in the char,even the chicken manure,cow ,rabbit whatever it holds the nutrients in it and your regular soil can still do its thing,uncharged char,will suck every thing in the soil into it robbing those nutrients,,that were folk think it not working,,but is ,just better charged so the transition tom it is like flowering your bud,first couple weeks things go a bit crazy from switching light cycle,,if you already have a living soil the char gives the plants the nutrient it seeks out if you dig,,between the charged char and live soil,,it gonna get down,,hahah so basically in nut shell if your feeding like full strength tea,just back down a bit and give it a week bring it up after a couple weeks you will have it dialed in,,,hahah if your really serious about container gardening,,go to home depot,,they had 36 gal totes for 10 bucks,,we got 18 gal totes for 3.45 with lids,lmao and they be much easier to move around,,all there garden shit is on sale,,if i had the cash to get that other 20 yrds of dirt i would get a pallet load of the peatmoss,lol those 18 gal normal price 24.95 we got 6 for 24,,im seriously thinking going back and get them 8 36 gal tote for 10 bucks,,normal price 36.95,hahah fall coming that got to get ride of shit,lmao
 
GT21

GT21

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I felt the same way but honestly the simple methods work. One guy still uses standard LOS recipe.

I began to understand when you start making things complicated...well things get complicated.

They do follow adjustments coot makes. He's down to MBP, karanja, and kelp meal for nutrient amendments. He found that MBP and high quality castings cover liming and chitin source even more effectively as crab meal. it can be broken down faster due to thinner layers of carbonate releasing more chotinase. The guy knows his shit and he wont put something out until hes tested it on the same cut from afganistan he aquired in the 70s. Crazy huh? Its smart. He can read this strain like a book so he can truly see how tweaked inputs affect them. His amendments, they're all really more geared toward feeding the soil.
Ya i dont listen to a lot of the Internet BS HAHAHA
 
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oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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No veg nutes.. no tea..sandy dirt.... look at this garbage
i was talking to pup,,just got that shitty grin about her,lmao and ya that weed look like shit,ahahahh,mama just had me go get some mason jars out of storage,,boy that loose sifted herb left over from cure long ass time ago,,sure hit the right spot,lmao
 
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i was talking to pup,,just got that shitty grin about her,lmao and ya that weed look like shit,ahahahh,mama just had me go get some mason jars out of storage,,boy that loose sifted herb left over from cure long ass time ago,,sure hit the right spot,lmao
How long of a cure... i like 6 months ... no more than 12
 

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