Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

[Organikz]

I am glad he tuned his list down, it was getting out of hand all these super soil bases imo. I can grow really great pot in clay and sand, not a single add more. if i used fresh clay each grow i would never need nutes, only bio stims and biology, access to new clays. Do you know many clays contain up to 170 compound forms of phosphate alone. I can often get many grows from a higher CEC clay before i need to add anything at all.
I do think my plants taste a little better when i tweak stuff with other adds tho, but as for adding 10+ things to say peat coco bases, I really cant be bothered. i would rather water in high quality inputs as and when and not have to rue the day i used partially cooked organics which i might then struggle to adjust in time. Of course not all liquid producers are equal. Ask the guys here about BPN's liquids versus say my own Bio Veg. bad organics are as bad as any synthetic

Oh yessir. I don't have to tell you but I do like to discuss that i have found that OMRI means absolutely nothing. They are more concerned about money. For instance Neptunes harvest liquid...not organic yet its OMRI listed. They use sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide to process and stabilize... I live in the states where hired 3rd party companies certify "all natural and organic". It means nothing here. Coot will tell You If you want real organic and all natural grow it yourself.

 

[Ecompost]

this i cant ansewer,but this i know,,with weed there is a difrence in the soil biology,,probally why it does best at 6.5,thats to include all weeds,,get to 7 and you have good tree bioligy,,im asuming under 6.is were you get your dry state plants as in cactus,,im considering planting cover crop for 1 keep my soil alive when im not using it for winter conditions,2 i want to plant my crop right in and not disturbed for bug prevention,,the cover crop provide nitrogen mainly,but also benifit the soil and bioligy,,thats my thinking any way,,even without cover crop i water my soil to keep it alive,,probally dont but i think everything needs a drink,lmao but with that being said,the last place i lived i notice the soil had to much nitrogen,,only clover would grow were grass seed wouldnt even germ in it,,so ya there is a point of too much,,far as char goes ,i do think i can do well in it ,just from my crazy temp swings and water table,,temps are triple digits all the way in dec at times,,and rain shit,,takes what we just had a hurricane to provide us with water,,im vision the char holding on to my nutrient longer and preventing leaching so much,,raised bed on a rock bed,,so it goes out quick just threw feeding the plants so much,,bettween peat moss, char,compost,mulch,maybe i can prevent so much water use,,mt water is very alkaline so i got to do something,,taking 5 gal bucket of treated water down this hill aint getting it,lol will all this help i hope so,garunteed ,highly doubt,but got to keep moving forward cause i love the game,lol as far as a water only soil i dont think it will happen just for the fact of what is and will always be in are water table,,we cant control others,,hell they dump shit when we sleep so to speek,and everything goes down hill,,thats why i always ask about these studies,what method of the water table was used,,because regaurdless of methods we all do,when it come down to it,we,plants are water and need it for survival,,so i dont know eco,i cant answer that one at all,lmao

i will send you my new BCRA when i get the shipping sorted. been holidays here mate so about a week and i might be able to get on with it. :-) make sure to use your mycos mate, these will help your salt accumulations too. Drought, then high heat then rain, I know the feeling mate trust me. Char is going to help you, no questions

 

[Ecompost]

Oh yessir. I don't have to tell you but I do like to discuss that i have found that OMRI means absolutely nothing. They are more concerned about money. For instance Neptunes harvest liquid...not organic yet its OMRI listed. They use sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide to process and stabilize... I live in the states where hired 3rd party companies certify "all natural and organic". It means nothing here. Coot will tell You If you want real organic and all natural grow it yourself.

yes, this is how we make our nutrients mate, we grow every bit of them, only the green lipped mussels we ship. this would otherwise be waste material, so I dont feel bad about that since its distribution is tied to an existing transport route, capitalizing on renaming space in vehicles, rather than being a solo enterprise use of fuel. Everything else we grow, and yes this includes a bay where we hand harvest our kelps etc and in this we monitor the sea water conditions permanently.
We custom design soil profiles and then we plant. We hand pick the materials, this prevents us putting in any unwanted matter, maintaining a higher level of quality. We test and we test, we have existing relations with universities and we pride ourselves in this testing standard.
we breed microbes ourselves and we have many room temp fermented options which prolong the stability of our products, without having to resort to non organic options or put bottles in your wifes refrigerator just to keep it.

 

[Ecompost]

Oh neither do I. Not blindly anyway. I read white sheets regarding the topic. Even white sheets don't always apply to growing in containers. You have a closed system. So for instance when a gentleman showed a whitesheet studying salt fertilizer effects on soil biology. He claimed the microbiologu was consuming it because numbers didn't diminish however they didn't increase as they did with the organic field. That is an open loop where microbes freely move about and migrate around the world lol.

However I understand that microbial killing chemicals are used to stabilize the nutrients so they smell fresh. So how the hell does bacteria eat preservatives that kill it on contact?

hahahahah one of the stores we went to to say hey check out our stuff, said, "gee it kinda smells right? Cant you add some enzyme to stop the smell?"
I walked at that point. I wasnt going to try to convince a man that VOC's are part of the program if he didnt already understand why things smell anyway....idiot....it is this fundamental lack of understanding reference communication, that meant at the time, i was unable to communicate with him. Perhaps his statement had removed the necessary Volatile Compounds which were then enablers of two way discussion LOL

 

[Ecompost]

Blujay really utilizes the Fukuoka method in means of no outside compost besides top dress composting with kelp/karanja/MBP. They don't do SST anymore. They make flour out of premalted grain and water it in with fulvic acid. It's an SST on the soil surface along with food for worms.

I totally forgot I poured a half bag of coop poop in both 150g worm reactors. Would this cover rock dust? I know chickens have a gizzards so they eat pebbles and shit rock dust. Should I follow up? I know the worms have a gizzard also

Maybe i misunderstood his writing. Perhaps he's say8ng he gets the sam3 benefits by top dressing and letting the worms go to work on it. Also a lot of guys were brewing bio teas without proper equipment to monitor. You know how to use the microscope which I need to pick up. Once the tea would reach maximum life sustainability the oxygen is consumed quickly and anaerobic pathogens can begin to colonize.

This definitely doesn't apply to agriculture like your situation.

I know what you're saying about making sure they get to the mycellium web. Which brings up my next question...

Do you prefer fungal dominant or bacterial dominant. Would a fungal dominant soil life work in a container? Sorry your brain looks tasty and I'd like to pick it. Can fungi keep salt levels down in soil. It's my understand8ng mushroom compost is loaded with sodium. Would a fungal dominant soil be able to mitigate salts?

I've had it hammered in my head to keep it balanced. Apparently creating bio life geared towards fungal dominance is an option being practiced in vermaculture.

Ah so its a bit like my Bokashi amendment I think reference the soil surface feed they run. here is a base picture of the stuff i grow typically. The last shot is the microbes eating my root pouches ;-)

 

[oldskol4evr]

Fox farm uses 2 different bases on east and west coast... but ya... its all good

east coast use pine,west hardwod,both is great stuff

 

[oldskol4evr]

About dominance, I prefer what my plant responds best towards. This is typically as simple as saying, is this a single season and die, or a long lived plant? I try not to waste too much time chasing fungal mass in my annuals beds, that said, it is entropy to end with fungal dominance imo. hence some tillage will always be a tool. From the beach to the woodlands, its as if the soil is moving into adulthood if you like. As such its capacity to support wider diversity also increases, lets just call this experienced soil in the forest and baby soil at the beach. :)
Where on this line of development does the plant exist in nature? it is this that determines the ideal F:B ratio. cannabis being a grassland plant is a 1:1 so carry on as you are buddy imo. only reason to change would be levels of toxins in the soil and or agitators like Na
AMF (Funneliformis mosseae) and PSF (Mortierella sp.SM-1) as we find on beach grown plum trees would suggest yes reference sodium levels in container grown plants, mitigating the potential Na- K hazard and also helping to maintain overall P access
i dont think it is possible to perform such significant wizardry without combining fungal types AMF and PSF, DSE and so on, but anyone of these actors will reduce Na levels ref uptake alone. Again we find ourselves in the trap of diversity :)

http://www.cropj.com/zai_8_6_2014_945_950.pdf

damn yall done lost this old gezzer lmao,some i understand most not,lol

 

[Ecompost]

where the plant lives typically tells you with what biology it might hang out is all. If its closer to the beach, it will be bacterially dominant, if its in the woods, it will rely heavily on fungus. Most annuals, eg crops that live and die in one season, are mates with bacteria. fungus lives for many years, possibly thousands. Ergo it would make no sense for a fungus to make friends with a plant that will be dead in 3-5 months.there are always exceptions to rules, but never the less if we go through the reasoning, then we will find the answers. In the case of beach palms, its in the lignin :)
As plants become more complex, so the sum total of parts can support a wider range of microbial activity. Any plant with Lignin will be mates with fungus. how we therefore organize our feeds, is typical of the plant position and its make up.

 

[oldskol4evr]

use the bocking14 comfrey or suffer its rowdy tendency to spread. Your input here is most welcome mate. i am glad you came, and gladder still for your continued presence

that was the whole idea behind this thread ,all i could find for my urge to keep things organic and healthier plants,im not the smartest cookie but digging all the input,the more the merrier no shit,we got to bring this back to life ,to many folk just want to buy what you provide and it is better when you produce it your self,,field work proves all and this is how we exceed in the game and can teach others,,yall teaching my old ass alot,dig it

 

[oldskol4evr]

I am glad he tuned his list down, it was getting out of hand all these super soil bases imo. I can grow really great pot in clay and sand, not a single add more. if i used fresh clay each grow i would never need nutes, only bio stims and biology, access to new clays. Do you know many clays contain up to 170 compound forms of phosphate alone. I can often get many grows from a higher CEC clay before i need to add anything at all.
I do think my plants taste a little better when i tweak stuff with other adds tho, but as for adding 10+ things to say peat coco bases, I really cant be bothered. i would rather water in high quality inputs as and when and not have to rue the day i used partially cooked organics which i might then struggle to adjust in time. Of course not all liquid producers are equal. Ask the guys here about BPN's liquids versus say my own Bio Veg. bad organics are as bad as any synthetic

hahahaha i got a fence that eat up with bpn,,shit has a stain that want go away when i dumped it there 3 yrs ago,,hahah even killed off the grass i was trying to ride there,now it do a good job of that,,lmao

 

[oldskol4evr]

i will send you my new BCRA when i get the shipping sorted. been holidays here mate so about a week and i might be able to get on with it. :) make sure to use your mycos mate, these will help your salt accumulations too. Drought, then high heat then rain, I know the feeling mate trust me. Char is going to help you, no questions

my crazy ass started some taters in 40 gal bags yesterday,,decided that i use 1 part peat,1part compost .5 part soil,and probally 2 cups of char charged in kamino,bio initate,ewc and comfrey,,been charging for a week,,but started them yesterday evening,,if i get taters before it gets cold dont know,,one thing for sure if i get to stage 4 of flowers in there with taters,,just a experement mama had me do ,hope it works,,it dont get cold to end of dec,but this has been a weird and very hot year,then the hurricane,,so we will see how it goes,,my clones are picking up finally,,got 4 more in the bubbler trying for roots,,gonna do you guys #2 pot grow ,keep um low and just produce buds,,hahah my ass need some medicine,lmao

 

[oldskol4evr]

Ah so its a bit like my Bokashi amendment I think reference the soil surface feed they run. here is a base picture of the stuff i grow typically. The last shot is the microbes eating my root pouches ;-)

thats some straight up magic right there

 

[Organikz]

I just make sure I do my weekly malted barley top dress and push it into the soil just a little with a sprayer with solution of fulvic and aloe. She crusts up pretty well. I've heard people say they break the crust up and I'm like omg no!! Thats the nutrient superhighway. Bochhed comfrey is sterile. And @Ecompost ive heard soft tissue plants are not good to grow in fungal dominant which is similar to what you said about long living woody trees. Risk of mold and disease.

To answer your question I just follow a 10 day schedule which I recently adjusted. I use coconut water every 5th day which is good for bacterial colonies. It's similar to a Petri dish the MBP every 5th day after coconut water keeps the mycellium moving. Monthly top dress of compost and ewc mixture and some karanja and kelp meal or alfalfa meal. As you saw I keep worms in the container. They do a lot of the guess work for me. Shit because of masanobu I don't spread top dresses evenly. Like he says organic matter doesn't fall to the ground in an even fashion.

Just toss a half cup of each under each plant. The MBP i do sprinkle. He laughed about farmers trying to copy his method but they layer the straw out in tight rows in an unnatural way similar to baling and it failed.

 

[Organikz]

Can we get some updates? I mean are the organic plants still alive? My white widow flew too close to the sun. Burned her wings. Damn LEC is potent...ouch. I raised it to 3.5 above the canopy.

 

[Ecompost]

that was the whole idea behind this thread ,all i could find for my urge to keep things organic and healthier plants,im not the smartest cookie but digging all the input,the more the merrier no shit,we got to bring this back to life ,to many folk just want to buy what you provide and it is better when you produce it your self,,field work proves all and this is how we exceed in the game and can teach others,,yall teaching my old ass alot,dig it

we need as many eyes and hands as possible. Going back to a market garden with hand tools is the way. You can earn enough on a small plot to live well imo, esp all the farmers markets in the USA. Food box schemes etc. We have a virtual allotment, it is constantly over subscribed. So i turned over 1 acre to a concept of a 10x10/ 20x20 and so on which we rent to folks, well its actually a subscription service. Each plot is part owned by the client, they get all the food from the patch they sub too for the duration.
yes we have back up food producers, its really not viable without security, but you could do that easy mate, its a web site and a bit of ground time and negotiating with other producers as a back up to failures. Its decent money for everyday foods, all organic, seasonal. People like to look at the crops, they can come visit their plots, they can request from a list of food types. i hope to expand this now in to Spain also.

 

[Ecompost]

my crazy ass started some taters in 40 gal bags yesterday,,decided that i use 1 part peat,1part compost .5 part soil,and probally 2 cups of char charged in kamino,bio initate,ewc and comfrey,,been charging for a week,,but started them yesterday evening,,if i get taters before it gets cold dont know,,one thing for sure if i get to stage 4 of flowers in there with taters,,just a experement mama had me do ,hope it works,,it dont get cold to end of dec,but this has been a weird and very hot year,then the hurricane,,so we will see how it goes,,my clones are picking up finally,,got 4 more in the bubbler trying for roots,,gonna do you guys #2 pot grow ,keep um low and just produce buds,,hahah my ass need some medicine,lmao

BCRA will help mate, its good for extremes either end, drought or flood, but Humic acid is awesome for spuds, Malic too so BBM from my side with KAMINO and you get shit loads of chunky spuds :-)

 

[Ecompost]

I just make sure I do my weekly malted barley top dress and push it into the soil just a little with a sprayer with solution of fulvic and aloe. She crusts up pretty well. I've heard people say they break the crust up and I'm like omg no!! Thats the nutrient superhighway. Bochhed comfrey is sterile. And @Ecompost ive heard soft tissue plants are not good to grow in fungal dominant which is similar to what you said about long living woody trees. Risk of mold and disease.

To answer your question I just follow a 10 day schedule which I recently adjusted. I use coconut water every 5th day which is good for bacterial colonies. It's similar to a Petri dish the MBP every 5th day after coconut water keeps the mycellium moving. Monthly top dress of compost and ewc mixture and some karanja and kelp meal or alfalfa meal. As you saw I keep worms in the container. They do a lot of the guess work for me. Shit because of masanobu I don't spread top dresses evenly. Like he says organic matter doesn't fall to the ground in an even fashion.

Just toss a half cup of each under each plant. The MBP i do sprinkle. He laughed about farmers trying to copy his method but they layer the straw out in tight rows in an unnatural way similar to baling and it failed.

yo I had a massive debate with someone about this. I ranted off telling them no where in nature do we find piles of mixed organic inputs, ergo I like you toss stuff and rely on fungal mass to shift it about, well worms and beetles etc too. it also means i never compost directly on the ground and only use a hard pan and drain to a monitor any run off levels. Same reason, I just figured myself that i never see massive piles of anything much outside of blown leaves caught by a fence or otehr, but even here, its usually one input and not many.
I am just now really getting going on understanding more about specific plant/ biology interactions reference non planted types in and around my system. In spending this time, i have uncovered a new compound to assist in the retention rate of lipids, a new anti psychotic and a deeper understanding in to the subtle nature of signaling, ie how plants and animals interact to boost species specific external comms via certain volatiles and or enzymes, such as those in the ligand family.
Life is a wonder for me, did you know for example, the reason most leaf biters make circular holes in leaves and not some other shape, is because they have learned how to feast without triggering the plants defensive systems. A circle allows the insect to take as large a piece of leaf as possible and yet still remain delicate enough for the bypass trick to fool the plant. I wonder how many people understand this, even tho they have likely seen it millions of times and probably never considered the why.
Comfrey isnt great for glomus, it is good for producing trichoderma and other yeasts tho, of course these can be risky, certainly in the case of overdoing trichoderma, or by putting at risk ripening levels too via over productions of ADH-1

 

[Ecompost]

I would not use a comfrey based product past day 21 bloom anyway, well not unless i was trying to pick out clear trichs for some medical purpose.

 

[Ecompost]

Can we get some updates? I mean are the organic plants still alive? My white widow flew too close to the sun. Burned her wings. Damn LEC is potent...ouch. I raised it to 3.5 above the canopy.

is it a 315? They have got some poke for sure. i love them tho. best lamp i have used and we have used them all over time. We run these end to end now.

Thought I would pop some little pics of my girls, been growing in up to 47c for a large part of summer. night temps have been 34c too. Ultra high UV and hardcore mountain winds everyday at about 3pm

 

[XDiggerX]

Hydroponics vs organic. Here we have some lovely hydroponic NFT chilli's. We also have some lovely Sativa girls. Cannabis 100% organic grow. Used well composted lawn clippings (10 years), Chicken crap from my Chicken Pen, crushed egg shells also from my chickens, Fermented fruit (banana skins/pulp), woodfire ash and organic coco coir.

This smelly goo is mixed well with an organic potting mix and then mixed evenly into the well prepared soil. Water in a microbe brew (Trico-Shield) and turn the soil. I then leave the prepared soil to sit, turning the soil every few days, for a few weeks before planting. Then an ash and dried chicken shit mix is applied to the surface before chipped palm fronds are added as mulch.

Simple, cost effective and pretty much permaculture. All the material except the coir and Trico-shield are produced from processed cultivated plant material or waste product of domestic farm animals (Only the eggs get eaten :-)). Banana does not cause buds to ripen early if added to your compost mix during the vege phase outdoor.

Growing indoor I'd use a product like Ozi Magic Grow Juice Monsta Bud organic liquid fertilizer and Tarantula Microbe formula by Advance Nutrients.