Everyone Uses Microbes, Like It Or Not.

[Ecompost]

Yep your so mazing ive never grown before yep im terrible anything else?

as a counter, i have always found you to be most pleasant company online :-)

 

[Ecompost]

Everyone will always have different opinions brotha... knowledge evolves .... take crack for instance. ..we didnt know how to make it and now we do

that we make compounds is nature, whether they are good or bad is just a pathetic humanization of reality, there is no good or bad, since good and bad doesnt exist and if it did, it would lay in the heart of each one of us, and who ever would destroy a piece of their own heart? #keepcompoundsandcarryon

 

[Ecompost]

Added, without us, Oxygen levels would be so high that nothing would live, since it would be disinfected as if brushed with Chlorine, ergo we are ourselves the makers and creators of the conditions for life, we can destroy or we can be mutualistic in our support of each other, lets say for the common good of cannabis :-)

 

[GT21]

that we make compounds is nature, whether they are good or bad is just a pathetic humanization of reality, there is no good or bad, since good and bad doesnt exist and if it did, it would lay in the heart of each one of us, and who ever would destroy a piece of their own heart? #keepcompoundsandcarryon

Been a long time since these got cracked... but look at that motherfucker haha haha

 

[Ecompost]

Been a long time since these got cracked... but look at that motherfucker haha haha

roy is super stoney pain killing style, people here love Roy, the TK side seems to be dominant in most but this looks more like an RD, if it is its a bit like LA Con in that its the slower growing and less stretch, but it is the most stoney of them all that we found. The Albert side is lost in the Lee Roy in all but frame, so its much more like the Rare dankness lee roy in flavor imo

 

[Organikz]

yes some of them do, (halophiles for example) how else might we get life in Brackish water. In fact it has been noted in Israel, that many plants, eg Tomatoes etc, respond well to slightly raised salt levels in the irrigation water, producing higher levels of sugars. There are many videos on YouTube. here is some basic data on Halophiles.
https://www.britannica.com/science/halophile

here is a post about Tomatoes and Salt water
ttps://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90135252

I should have been more specific. I think you refer to mineral salts. We're talking ammonium nitrate here. Bomb making materials.

I know for a fact nitrates had to be physically removed in my salt water fish tank. 50% Water changes are done biweekly. This is even with a living rock system. Live rock is rock foraged feom Tonga or fiji. Yeah I don't support it anymore

"These results demonstrate that soil management practices, such as manuring, that result in accumulations of organic carbon will result in increased microbial biomass and changes in community structure."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0038071701000049

 

[Organikz]

I really thought @Ecompost would get into the impact that salt based fertilizer is creating. Co2 and N2 are constantly released by microbes in the soil as they oxidize carbon. Over a period of time sequestered carbon is lost. Errosion occurs and there is no carbon to speak of....now do microbes thrive with less carbon?

This is an interruption if 2 key cycles to life...the carbon and nitrogen cycle.

If plants and microbes thrive in sodic soil why is do I always see plants die in it? Why do they pack meat with salt to slow microbial population? Salt preserves proteins right? This means it prevents microbes from being able to eat. If microbes thrive on salt why can't they eat my Smithfield ham? You know they want it.

 

[EventHorizan]

Smh......

 

[Organikz]

"LONG ANSWER
Salt draws water out of cells via the process of osmosis. Essentially, water moves across a cell membrane to try to equalize the salinity or concentration of salt on both sides of the membrane.

If you add enough salt, too much water will be removed from a cell for it to stay alive or reproduce. Organisms that decay food and cause disease are killed by a high concentration of salt. A concentration of 20% salt will kill bacteria. Lower concentrations inhibit microbial growth, until you get down to the salinity of the cells, which may have the opposite and undesirable effect of providing ideal growing conditions!

WHAT ABOUT OTHER CHEMICALS?
Table salt or sodium chloride is a common preservative because it is non-toxic, inexpensive, and tastes good! However, other types of salt also work to preserve food, including other chlorides, nitrates, and phosphates. Another common preservative that works by affecting osmotic pressure is sugar."

@EventHorizan sorry had to put it up there

 

[Organikz]

I want to add that if you didn't allow soil to cook long enough you can throw a 1/4 cup of sugar in to slow down the denitrification process...this article reminded me of an instance where i was advised to use brown sugar in hot soil.

 

[Ecompost]

I should have been more specific. I think you refer to mineral salts. We're talking ammonium nitrate here. Bomb making materials.

I know for a fact nitrates had to be physically removed in my salt water fish tank. 50% Water changes are done biweekly. This is even with a living rock system. Live rock is rock foraged feom Tonga or fiji. Yeah I don't support it anymore

"These results demonstrate that soil management practices, such as manuring, that result in accumulations of organic carbon will result in increased microbial biomass and changes in community structure."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0038071701000049

ammonium nitrate is present in the Nitrogen cycle as part of denytrification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denitrification, its presence indicates a precursor, the conversion to N2 typically. This is the gas in its form in our atmosphere. The key to anything is knowing whats used, whats left in potential or other, and then adding only whats needed, either organic or synthetic, but it is true synthetic nitrogen burns carbon and so carbon, otherwise being replaced in organic systems by manures, composts, and so on, then becomes a limiting factor in synthetic system sustainability. It is likely those using synthetic N salts would benefit from the addition of char to the soil structure to help prevent leaching and maintain a balance ratio of Carbon to Nitrogen.

Plants use ammonium ions so I am not sure I am following the thread of thought?

is too much N a problem, yes it is, but can manures also contain high levels of salts? yes they can, its about balance.

its not that using a salt is bad per say, but using too much salt is bad, esp when it goes out of sync with available carbon. In my previous post I wasn't referring to particular salts, and indeed plants use multiple salts in various forms. see here this piece from Ed Bloodnick covering Na and Cl

Sodium and chloride are typically viewed as waste ions that plants do not need. This can be true if their levels are high in a water source. However, research has shown that plants do use these elements in small quantities.

Function: Sodium is not an essential element for plants but can be used in small quantities, similar to micronutrients, to aid in metabolism and synthesis of chlorophyll. In some plants, it can be used as a partial replacement for potassium and aids in the opening and closing of stomates, which helps regulate internal water balance. Chloride is needed in small quantities and aids in plant metabolism, photosynthesis, osmosis (movement of water in and out of plant cells) and ionic balance within the cell.

Deficiency: Sodium “deficiency” does not appear to exhibit any symptoms since it is not an essential element. Chloride deficiency can occur if there is consistently less than 2 ppm chloride in the growing medium and the symptoms appear as chlorotic blotches with necrotic spots located between the veins or on the margins of the younger leaves. In advanced cases, chloride deficiency could cause plant wilting. Both deficiencies rarely occur since most water sources provide them and fertilizers often have them as impurities.

is it true we have used too much N in the past and or today? yes we have, it is a problem, but we wont fix it by telling conservative minds to shape up. We need to be conscious of what we add at all times, but if we use method and data to support our decisions, rather than simply lumping nutrients, no one would be discussing this today.
Farmers where never really taught how to apply nutrients in keeping with system balance, we cant blame, we can only use what we know today to move forwards together. Tell me a hard pushed farmer who is going to tolerate a 20% yield drop in most cases during transition to organics, and i will go get a job sweeping streets bro.

there must be balance to any debate and people are free to live as they choose, for now at least :-)

 

[Ecompost]

"LONG ANSWER
Salt draws water out of cells via the process of osmosis. Essentially, water moves across a cell membrane to try to equalize the salinity or concentration of salt on both sides of the membrane.

If you add enough salt, too much water will be removed from a cell for it to stay alive or reproduce. Organisms that decay food and cause disease are killed by a high concentration of salt. A concentration of 20% salt will kill bacteria. Lower concentrations inhibit microbial growth, until you get down to the salinity of the cells, which may have the opposite and undesirable effect of providing ideal growing conditions!

WHAT ABOUT OTHER CHEMICALS?
Table salt or sodium chloride is a common preservative because it is non-toxic, inexpensive, and tastes good! However, other types of salt also work to preserve food, including other chlorides, nitrates, and phosphates. Another common preservative that works by affecting osmotic pressure is sugar."

@EventHorizan sorry had to put it up there

now now, if you are confident, you will not be swayed right?

 

[Organikz]

now now, if you are confident, you will not be swayed right?

What you are saying just goes against everything ever taught about preserving protein and carbon base Meats. Maybe i will duck out to refocus my efforts and understand better. You were the one who always told me that you had to add the carbon. I'm just confused at this point

 

[sixstring]

Smh......

shaving my homie ? :jimlad:

 

[Ecompost]

What you are saying just goes against everything ever taught about preserving protein and carbon base Meats. Maybe i will duck out to refocus my efforts and understand better. You were the one who always told me that you had to add the carbon. I'm just confused at this point

if you re read what i wrote, i clearly advise synthetic Nitrogen users to check carbon ratios mate

 

[sixstring]

threads like these is why i lie and tell everyone i use jacks from seed to harvest,its just easier than explaining everything lol.

 

[Ecompost]

What you are saying just goes against everything ever taught about preserving protein and carbon base Meats. Maybe i will duck out to refocus my efforts and understand better. You were the one who always told me that you had to add the carbon. I'm just confused at this point

added, salt levels to preserve are way out of kilt with adding a few hundred ppms to a water solution. Sodic and or Saline soil conditions should generally be avoided if one wishes to grow a wide variety of plants including Cannabis. The levels of salt involved in preserving are off the chart man. There is little use in comparing the two to make a point which is this i think, " in order to have the widest possible selection of enzymes to help our plants retain vitality and yield, we ought not to have salted water and or salted land in excess."

In order to know how much N your microbes are producing biologically and can fix in the right conditions, one needs to know exactly what is in the system, and be able to measure sufficient respiration of CO2. Lots of people cant get the time to figure this out, and so they prefer to use measured salts which they can easily understand.
it is as shit load more work and time to understand how much N potential you have in bio active organic systems.

if we take an example, how much N should i add to my orange trees this year? What mechanisms and data points do i need to make an accurate assessment?
I will give you the base data, this is that on average each fruit bearing orange tree, has a base N requirement per year of 1Lb per tree.
I added 1lb over the course of last year, but how much do i need to actually replace this year?

 

[Organikz]

threads like these is why i lie and tell everyone i use jacks from seed to harvest,its just easier than explaining everything lol.

Not a bad idea. I'm beginning to think questioning common practice is just a lonely place here. Idk.

Use fox farms and lucas!

 

[Ecompost]

Not a bad idea. I'm beginning to think questioning common practice is just a lonely place here. Idk.

Use fox farms and lucas!

dont be disheartned brother, do you think i dont get this all the time?

 

[GT21]

dont be disheartned brother, do you think i dont get this all the time?

Hahahaha i remember the den days posting info.... that was a losing battle most of the time...BPN!!!!!