BHO Purging Method

[knucklehead bob]

That's genius! I may have to try that setup! Do you have a pic of finished product with your system??

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[billbodabbin]

4th run I've done now. No vac chamber.
- popcorn nuggets and trim put in dehydrator for 4 hours.
- 20g using one can of Newport tane.
- blasted into hot water bath.
- scraped and purged for 6 hours at 110 exactly using Nuwave induction cooker.
- method was flawless, just takes a little longer than with a vac.

The dehydrating process made for a much more bright yellow color. Will do this always. Even enhanced clarity.

 

[indonesia]

laser cut titanium closed loop with 1.9 cu ft vac oven and recovery tank. the one with orange brim is open loop with 2 gal vac chamber and pump for smaller amounts. the closed loop can blast a kilo of material at once while the butane is recovered and turned back into a gas form and recycled and re used. the oven can have up to 4 treys purging at once and more or less dial-a-temp for personal preference. very costly but abosoltely worth it in a short while

 

[d0rk2dafullest]

I've always used HMK's method and afterwards i just threw it on a seedling heat mat. After a few days. i'd have cookie crumble. just make sure to not go too hot. as that can make ur bho unstable. u'd decarb it.
Jw if anyone else ever used a seedling heat mat? to purge? i always ended up with cookie crumble without having to buy all the fancy vac purging kits. I know it's probably faster and more efficient. but a heat mat saved me some money in the mean time.

 

[vannj]

Happy New Year Everyone!
Just received the dab an acquaintance made from my bud...he's done some before and it was great, but this tastes like gasoline. The initial high is good but can only do a couple of hits and can't stand the taste beyond that. I am wondering if he didn't purge it enough???
My question to all of you is "What can I do to improve this dab?"

 

[Graywolf]

I suggest dissolving it in ethanol and evaporating that off to help wash out/purge the naphtha or Hexane or ?? that gives it the gasoline properties.

 

[OldHead]

Greetings all!
New to the BHO scene, kinda surprised I missed the boat by a decade. Lol. Anyway, I did a lot of reading here and there, and have two personal sized runs under my belt that were successful IMO. I am interested to see if there is a current (2018) prescribed method to follow for smaller personal runs, most of the info I have found seems to be older. I am interested in retaining as many tasty terpines as possible, so I guess shatter is my goal or pull and snap?
I will detail my method, please feel free to comment good or bad.
I use a pressurized column soak for about 15 minuets, then blast it into a bowl lined with PTFE that is sitting on 120 degree sand bath heated by an electric skillet. I let it purge in the open until it is no longer runny liquid. At that point I place the PTFE sheet with the oil into my vac chamber.
Now the process gets blurry. The big question everyone seems to have is what vac and temp to purge at? One advantage I do have is that I have considerable experience with vacuum equipment and vacuum chambers. I understand to retain terpines temperature control is critical. I also understand that knowing your true vacuum level is CRITICAL because temperature goes hand in hand with vacuum level. I have seen the temp/vacuum chart for THC, and am wondering if there are any charts for the terpines involved? Also I would like to mention that the vacuum gauge that came with the vac chamber I ordered is soooo far out of calibration it is useless! A decent vacuum gauge from the HVAC industry can be had for $120 and is a must if you use a chamber for purging. At 1000 microns/29.88 inches of mercury THC can boil off at 111.6 degrees F! Just to note, 29.88 inches of mercury is easy to obtain if you know what you are doing and your chamber is tight.
So for my next run I am considering a room temp purge 65F at around a 750 micron vac for 24-48 hours, followed by a 12 hour melt at 110F and a 5000 micron vacuum. I have found that the thinner your oil, the better it will purge, so I try to roll it with something to thin it out as best as possible. I have picked and pulled all of this from various sources, so I am not claiming to have developed it or anything like that. Thanks in advance for assistance.

 

[MirrorZen]

Greetings all!
New to the BHO scene, kinda surprised I missed the boat by a decade. Lol. Anyway, I did a lot of reading here and there, and have two personal sized runs under my belt that were successful IMO. I am interested to see if there is a current (2018) prescribed method to follow for smaller personal runs, most of the info I have found seems to be older. I am interested in retaining as many tasty terpines as possible, so I guess shatter is my goal or pull and snap?
I will detail my method, please feel free to comment good or bad.
I use a pressurized column soak for about 15 minuets, then blast it into a bowl lined with PTFE that is sitting on 120 degree sand bath heated by an electric skillet. I let it purge in the open until it is no longer runny liquid. At that point I place the PTFE sheet with the oil into my vac chamber.
Now the process gets blurry. The big question everyone seems to have is what vac and temp to purge at? One advantage I do have is that I have considerable experience with vacuum equipment and vacuum chambers. I understand to retain terpines temperature control is critical. I also understand that knowing your true vacuum level is CRITICAL because temperature goes hand in hand with vacuum level. I have seen the temp/vacuum chart for THC, and am wondering if there are any charts for the terpines involved? Also I would like to mention that the vacuum gauge that came with the vac chamber I ordered is soooo far out of calibration it is useless! A decent vacuum gauge from the HVAC industry can be had for $120 and is a must if you use a chamber for purging. At 1000 microns/29.88 inches of mercury THC can boil off at 111.6 degrees F! Just to note, 29.88 inches of mercury is easy to obtain if you know what you are doing and your chamber is tight.
So for my next run I am considering a room temp purge 65F at around a 750 micron vac for 24-48 hours, followed by a 12 hour melt at 110F and a 5000 micron vacuum. I have found that the thinner your oil, the better it will purge, so I try to roll it with something to thin it out as best as possible. I have picked and pulled all of this from various sources, so I am not claiming to have developed it or anything like that. Thanks in advance for assistance.

A lot of ppl don't realize that under vacuum, every solvents boiling point becomes much much lower. I commend you for that, because 90% of extractors don't even know that. Shatter that turns to dust is so dry and has boiled off terpenes. Anywhere from 105 to 110 under vacuum will create enough viscosity to allow the bubbles to purge through. I wouldn't go any hotter than 113, as it starts losing it's stability. A room temp purge I don't think will allow enough viscosity to do anything.

 

[MirrorZen]

Basically you have to hit the melting point to allow it. Not boiling point, 2 different things

 

[OldHead]

A lot of ppl don't realize that under vacuum, every solvents boiling point becomes much much lower. I commend you for that, because 90% of extractors don't even know that. Shatter that turns to dust is so dry and has boiled off terpenes. Anywhere from 105 to 110 under vacuum will create enough viscosity to allow the bubbles to purge through. I wouldn't go any hotter than 113, as it starts losing it's stability. A room temp purge I don't think will allow enough viscosity to do anything.

Ok sounds like I am on the right road thanks! I just cant see very far ahead.Lol What is meant by "loose its stability"? I see that everywhere, but I am not understanding its meaning. I have created some glass like shatter and some pull and snap type, and some stringy sap like resin. They were all similar, but I think the glass like was the best purged.

Basically you have to hit the melting point to allow it. Not boiling point, 2 different things

Thanks for pointing that out, that does make the fine line a little more manageable.

 

[MirrorZen]

Ok sounds like I am on the right road thanks! I just cant see very far ahead.Lol What is meant by "loose its stability"? I see that everywhere, but I am not understanding its meaning. I have created some glass like shatter and some pull and snap type, and some stringy sap like resin. They were all similar, but I think the glass like was the best purged.


Thanks for pointing that out, that does make the fine line a little more manageable.

Some oil is isn't stable because of one of a few things. 1) Too high in terpenes (definitely not a bad thing IMO, pure terpenes have a water like viscosity), it makes "sticky" slabs, 2) heat, when put up passed 140 during purge, you can bet it will be again "sticky" 3) running material too cold, yes this is possible freezing solvent with dry ice and column prior with dry ice. There has to be a certain amount of fats/lipids present to make stable oil, and running it that cold will reduce it's polarity to a point that it picks up near to no fats and lipids. Comes out quite clear without cloudiness because of that.

 

[MirrorZen]

And making good sauce requires running that cold with dry iced column and dry ice injection, for a badass diamond separation.

 

[MirrorZen]

Sorry stoned, just realized you asked a very basic question of what I meant in that situation. Yeah it will start to nucleate (start to crumble up or wax up) around 120 from what I have seen.

 

[OldHead]

:cool:
Thanks!
I must mention that I have never had any BHO except for the stuff I assembled.

 

[OldHead]

I am so frustrated at this point! I just cannot figure out this purge thing no matter how I try it. If I keep the temp around 120F and appropriate vacuum, it eventually stalls and stops bubbling like it is too thick to purge. I also tested a small amount at 135F and vac. I think I ended up with a sticky wax that still spits fire. It should not be this difficult, I just want an end product that does not spit fire but still has some terpines. This is my third and largest run, 20g starter and I am just not getting it.

 

[Graywolf]

I am so frustrated at this point! I just cannot figure out this purge thing no matter how I try it. If I keep the temp around 120F and appropriate vacuum, it eventually stalls and stops bubbling like it is too thick to purge. I also tested a small amount at 135F and vac. I think I ended up with a sticky wax that still spits fire. It should not be this difficult, I just want an end product that does not spit fire but still has some terpines. This is my third and largest run, 20g starter and I am just not getting it.

What are you calling appropriate vacuum? How are you measuring temperature?

 

[OldHead]

What are you calling appropriate vacuum? How are you measuring temperature?

My setup is small and simple. I have a stainless vessel about a gallon size. A top that has ball valves and a gauge, I also use a CPS CV200 digital vacrometer. The setup rests in a electric skillet in a sand bath. I measure temp of the sand bath with an IR thermometer, and when I take the lid off I quickly check the surface temp of the oil with the IR. I feel pretty confident that I can regulate temp fairly well. I keep my vac/temp levels below the THC delta9 boiling point according to the chart. For example this time temp was just below 120F and vac was 4000 microns which roughly translates to 29.7 I think? I have also tried other temps. I am considering some type of PID to regulate the electric skillet temp tighter, and a thermocouple in the chamber to get a better idea of actual temps. I have spent many hours working/babysitting this process over the last 3 months, it bugs me that I am having so much trouble. My best results come from rolling the oil between 2 pieces of PTFE to less than 1 mm thick, purge at 120F till the action stops, flip it, and do it again, and again, and again?
Another question I have is, do terpenes shoot fire similar to butane when exposed to direct flame?

 

[Graywolf]

My setup is small and simple. I have a stainless vessel about a gallon size. A top that has ball valves and a gauge, I also use a CPS CV200 digital vacrometer. The setup rests in a electric skillet in a sand bath. I measure temp of the sand bath with an IR thermometer, and when I take the lid off I quickly check the surface temp of the oil with the IR. I feel pretty confident that I can regulate temp fairly well. I keep my vac/temp levels below the THC delta9 boiling point according to the chart. For example this time temp was just below 120F and vac was 4000 microns which roughly translates to 29.7 I think? I have also tried other temps. I am considering some type of PID to regulate the electric skillet temp tighter, and a thermocouple in the chamber to get a better idea of actual temps. I have spent many hours working/babysitting this process over the last 3 months, it bugs me that I am having so much trouble. My best results come from rolling the oil between 2 pieces of PTFE to less than 1 mm thick, purge at 120F till the action stops, flip it, and do it again, and again, and again?
Another question I have is, do terpenes shoot fire similar to butane when exposed to direct flame?

My best results are in a thin film with a couple of flips as well. 120F and -29.7"Hg should get you below 500 ppm within 4 hours or so.

All of the terpenes and cannabinoids are aromatic hydrocarbons that burn when lit. The erratic flame behavior is typically water, not butane.

 

[OldHead]

My best results are in a thin film with a couple of flips as well. 120F and -29.7"Hg should get you below 500 ppm within 4 hours or so.

All of the terpenes and cannabinoids are aromatic hydrocarbons that burn when lit. The erratic flame behavior is typically water, not butane.

Thanks! I appreciate very much you sharing this info with me. My last run still rips well despite being purged to hell and back! Lol I actually purged/heated about 1/2 of the run to almost wax (a first) and the other half at a lower temp is flexy shatter. I have no clue what good shatter tastes like, I would never touch the krap around here if I could even find it. My stuff is the only thing I have to go by, and it tastes pretty good IMO, but I realize there is MUCH better to be had. Thanks again.

 

[Cyclopath]

@OldHead

You asked earlier what "stable" meant. it is a measure of viscosity.
You will find "viscosity" is often misused on forums
more "stable" == more viscous == less runny.

From what I'm reading you are absolutely on the right track. Assuming all else is equal, the final consistency of "properly purged" butane extract will depend on the input material. By which I mean that repeating the exact same purge profile on two different strains, or even on aged vs new material can lead to different final products. Viscosity will vary with terpene content/profile, and THC is less viscous than THCA. If you're aiming for "stable", then you want to avoid decarboxylation. which means keeping temps low.

"properly purged" is either a matter of personal choice, or a regulatory concept, depending on where the meds are going next. I know of no clinical data on the effects of huffing under purged BHO. If it existed, I would expect that residual butane showed a lesser effect than co-extracted fats and waxes. The closest proxy is the federal occupational exposure limit. which is 800 parts per million over an 8hr day. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pel88/106-97.html

Many jurisdictions use 500ppm as the target. I think some use 50ppm (but don't quote me) :)

Co-extracted fats & waxes will also effect final product stability. I prefer to winterize my extracts using ethanol and then vacuum purge to below 500ppm ethanol. Except for live resins, where I rely on solvent temps to reduce wax/fat pickup. Winterizing will absolutely lose terps. I find the increase in potency, and reduction in non-target molecules to be worth the loss. Your mileage will vary.