Help please! Slow growing plants in coco not drying out

[Enforcer]

@Enforcer - Are you generally growing from seed?

I totally agree with your theory but....

man clones dont build roots like seeds. The tap root is gonna dig deep and branch out hard. So your plants already build a strong lower root system right off the bat. Giving it the ability to pull up water down there.

Maybe its what im doing but. Clones roots are lazy. If they have enough water/nutes from the constant feeding. They just dont appear to really go searching unless you force them by cutting back on watering after transplant. Water them when the pots feel light, until you are feeding once a day.

I think thats what @Dirtbag is talking about at least.

I have mostly grown from clone. I run a perpetual two light rotation. I would agree with your statement if we were talking about soil. However, in coco I haven’t noticed much of a difference between seed and clone. Other than the addition of a tap root on a seed plant. Both root systems develop quickly.

These are three different strains grown from clone. They were grown in 3gal fabric pots.

 

[bunkerking]

Hmmmm. Ok - then its something im not aware of thats causing my issues, and his. I trust yah.

It is late Nov.

Maybe our issues is nute water temp?

If 16-17*C is the point where things become unhappy.
Then that would explain a few things.

 

[Enforcer]

Hmmmm. Ok - then its something im not aware of thats causing my issues, and his. I trust yah.

It is late Nov.

Maybe our issues is nute water temp?

If 16-17*C is the point where things become unhappy.
Then that would explain a few things.

Oh yeah. Dipping below those temps will definitely slow growth.

 

[bunkerking]

Oh yeah. Dipping below those temps will definitely slow growth.

Yah - thats some of my problem then. Wonder what @Oblivi0us temps are at.

 

[Oblivi0us]

Yah - thats some of my problem then. Wonder what @Oblivi0us temps are at.

Just got my trusty ppm/ec meter is today lol and my water nute temps are 60 degree Fahrenheit. When I first started this thread I was doing a number of things wrong such as very low nute feeding (like 1/4 strength) and letting the pots dry out too much. On top of enforcer and aqua beating it into my head about staying saturated I also read a great resource writing by a PhD of horticulture suggesting to keep at least 90% saturated in coco at all times. which I have now corrected and they are growing great now!
Check out: https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/watering_coco/

 

[Oblivi0us]

I have to disagree this is not soil. Plants will grow roots to be able to sufficiently provide the plants with water, nutrients and oxygen. In soil its beneficial to have a root system that's spread out so its not just in a small tight space depleting it of these (especially oxygen). In soiless its not really a necessity and that's why you can grow in much smaller pots since water, nutrients and oxygen are replenished with feedings and its ability for air capacity and exchange are far greater (this is where drainage is key). This is not the case in soil when its saturated with water the soil doesn't breath and you essentially end up cutting oxygen out of the equation in turn causing problems. In soiless this saturation drains and as it does its pulling in air to the media. If you treat soiless like soil you are reducing the effectiveness of the media. People really need to stop comparing it to soil.... and to hydro for that matter.

Thats kinda the whole point... they don't need to go searching. If they do its wasted energy in my view. They just increase root mass to be able to acquire what they need... why do they need to go searching? In soil they do in soiless/hydro they do not... they just increase root mass

That makes so much sense now. I was learning from cannabis training university and one of the methods to grow the grower is using an earth box where they put a screen on the bottom to separate the water from the soil a few inches. And by doing this once all the roots grow down through the medium and reach the water they do not need to go searching any more because all of their nutrients are right there so they stop growing downward and stay happy Where they meet the water. Couldn’t understand at the time how that worked but makes sense now. The guy did his own super soil and by the end of a grow he literally has earth worms moving around through his roots at the bottom and many other beneficial organisms. Some people are so incredibly smart with this stuff and I’m just at the tip of the iceberg, a long way to go down yet lol.

 

[bunkerking]

Well that's good, hope that helps. Bring up those water temps.

 

[Aqua Man]

Just got my trusty ppm/ec meter is today lol and my water nute temps are 60 degree Fahrenheit. When I first started this thread I was doing a number of things wrong such as very low nute feeding (like 1/4 strength) and letting the pots dry out too much. On top of enforcer and aqua beating it into my head about staying saturated I also read a great resource writing by a PhD of horticulture suggesting to keep at least 90% saturated in coco at all times. which I have now corrected and they are growing great now!
Check out: https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/watering_coco/

Great article thanks for linking... Was a good read.

 

[bunkerking]

and this is why you dont think soda before bedtime.

The reason i brought up temps was because i was taking notice of mine over the last week. Noticed growth started happening again.
Its skyrocketing now. I'm thinking this will fix your stunted issues. Nute temps make a differences, for sure.

 

[Oblivi0us]

and this is why you dont think soda before bedtime.

The reason i brought up temps was because i was taking notice of mine over the last week. Noticed growth started happening again.
Its skyrocketing now. I'm thinking this will fix your stunted issues. Nute temps make a differences, for sure.

Cool thanks for the insight! I made sure they were 72 degrees before I watering last night. Will try to get them to 75 or so each time

 

[Enforcer]

and this is why you dont think soda before bedtime.

The reason i brought up temps was because i was taking notice of mine over the last week. Noticed growth started happening again.
Its skyrocketing now. I'm thinking this will fix your stunted issues. Nute temps make a differences, for sure.

Absolutely. Water temp around 65*f. Root zone should stay in the upper 60’s low 70’s. Air temp in the upper 70’s if using an HID light. Air temp can be slightly higher using LED lights. Leaf surface temp should be 79*-81*.

The closer you can get to those temps, the faster she’ll grow. Basically if you can open your grow space, close your eyes, and it feels like a warm day at the beach...you nailed it.

 

[Enforcer]

Oh, and try to keep air temp above 60*f (15.6*C) lights off. Getting too cold during the dark cycle will also slow growth.

 

[bunkerking]

Oh, and try to keep air temp above 60*f (15.6*C) lights off. Getting too cold during the dark cycle will also slow growth.

Yah im almost thinking a non air cooled light hood will be ideal for winters.

 

[bunkerking]

Oh yeah. Dipping below those temps will definitely slow growth.

Yep, yep it will. Got roots popping out of the top and bottom with warmer nute temps.


How are your babies looking @Oblivi0us ?

 

[Oblivi0us]

Yep, yep it will. Got roots popping out of the top and bottom with warmer nute temps.


How are your babies looking @Oblivi0us ?

They are growing like weeds now. Here Is 7 days from the first picture. Just fimmed them and bent over the tops with lst training. The other on isn’t growing as well but still growing at a good pace. I keep having to tell myself this is on week 1 of veg and not to expect so much out of them lol. I get so impatient lol

 

[bunkerking]

awesome sauce. Nice work man :)

 

[Oblivi0us]

To illustrate my point. These are my current run. The first picture is October 15th. They just broke the coco and I started 3x a day fertigations. The second picture is just now, day 39. I up potted from the 1gal to the 3gal fabric pots on November 16th. They have been fertigated 3 x a day, everyday so far. I have only had to increase the time for each event. Especially after up potting. The space they are in measures 4’x4’. I am flipping them soon.

I just noticed in your pic the paper clips with hooks being used on the sides of the pots. Genius! Totally using your idea as I was trying to figure out something lol

 

[Enforcer]

I just noticed in your pic the paper clips with hooks being used on the sides of the pots. Genius! Totally using your idea as I was trying to figure out something lol

Thanks. They’re binder clips and garden wire. Beats the hell out of poking a bunch of holes in the pots. It’s the cheapest and most effective way to low stress train the plant. Every time I see one of those fancy LST gadgets for sale I just shake my head.

 

[soultouch]

Nothing to add bit this useless statement.

I'm a hydro grower and I know coco should not be compared to soil and is often referred to as hydro. I can say from observation on the forum that I feel it should not be compared to hydro either. There are just to many differences that I my self confuse and give info that may not be the best but makes sense to me when applying hydro processes that I feel I have a very strong grasp on.

Short version I feel coco is not even close to hydro... Or dirt for that matter.

It's awesome reading different experiences of knowledgeable growers in the same media and provides me some great learning experiences. After all it's the ability to apply knowledge to different scenarios that makes a good grower since there is no one fix for any problem in my view.

Technically, peat, perlite, bark, vermiculite, coco etc are considered Soiless Media

 

[soultouch]

Thanks. They’re binder clips and garden wire. Beats the hell out of poking a bunch of holes in the pots. It’s the cheapest and most effective way to low stress train the plant. Every time I see one of those fancy LST gadgets for sale I just shake my head.

Love the binder clip idea, that would work on fabric grow bags too i imagine where you cant really drillhole like on a plastic pot.I use old spools of electric wire 14 guage to 22 guage whatever i pick up on craigslist. I like white best, easy to see, and the pvc coating keeps the wire from cutting into the branches. and wire is heavy enough to spiral round branches and direct growth... a trick bonsai tree enthusiast use to direct branches precisely