Requesting Guidance on this breeding journey

[dire wolf]

Also , didnt your friend already " breed" with the genetics and produce seeds ? Then your goal is already accomplished ? Just back cross to your favorite mom after you grow out a bunch of the gifted seeds ? Sorry if i missed something i'll re read from begining.....

By adding the kosher x tangie female you seem to be moving away from the 35 day goal ?

You want go more towards the " gift " clone ,

 

[dire wolf]

Checked the tent today, and OMG I GOT A FEMALE!!!!
There’s definitely going to be an f2 crossing of (Tangie x The Gift)

Ok , i see , when i re read that you are going to cross the seeds you got .....

 

[dire wolf]

My Question is this:

if I have 3 f1 Males that are (The Gift x Tangie)

and 3 females that are (Kosher x Tangie)

should I collect the Pollen from all three males, and breed them in pairs with the 3females?
Or
Collect pollen from all 3 males, mix the pollen, and pollinate all females with mixed pollin (then pheno hunt for the desired trait throughout subsequent generations)

Or
Save the Pollen from the most vigorous (The Gift x Tangie) male, and pollinate all subsequent generations with pollin from original f1 male?

I would do the last sentance

 

[GimpDaddy]

I would do the last sentance

Thanks!!
Now that I realize that there are just 2 males of (Tangie x Gift), my options are narrowed down a bit more. But it also works out better for me, because I can get started on the f2 breeding already- as well as the 10 other crosses that I’m going to do

 

[GimpDaddy]

I’ve read a handful of articles on plant breeding, and they don’t always agree with each other.
Some say that the f1 generation is the most vigorous, and encourage continual crossing of two lines, producing a steady stream of f1’s that have that ‘hybrid vigor’

while others say that selective breeding, for specific traits, is the best option.
What if there is a way to do both?

I have 2 (Tangie x the Gift) males remaining, but I don’t want to risk losing the genetics of either one. Let’s call them “Ben” and “Jerry” to avoid confusion.

so what if, I collect and save the pollen from BOTH plants.
This year, all the females get hit with Ben’s Pollen. But then next year, *the most vigorous* or of Ben’s progeny get hit with Jerry’s Pollen (maybe only saving the seeds from the earliest finishing specimens?) Then the following year, Jerry’s Progeny gets hit with Ben’s Pollen, and so on.
It’s kind of a new cross, because it’s getting hit with pollen from a different seed plant, but it’s the same genetics.

im not sure if this has been tried before, or even what to call it?
Double-BackCross?
Back-Braid Breeding?

Thoughts?

 

[dire wolf]

Hey gimp ,

I’ve read a handful of articles on plant breeding, and they don’t always agree with each other.
Some say that the f1 generation is the most vigorous, and encourage continual crossing of two lines, producing a steady stream of f1’s that have that ‘hybrid vigor’

while others say that selective breeding, for specific traits, is the best option.
What if there is a way to do both?

I have 2 (Tangie x the Gift) males remaining, but I don’t want to risk losing the genetics of either one. Let’s call them “Ben” and “Jerry” to avoid confusion.

so what if, I collect and save the pollen from BOTH plants.
This year, all the females get hit with Ben’s Pollen. But then next year, *the most vigorous* or of Ben’s progeny get hit with Jerry’s Pollen (maybe only saving the seeds from the earliest finishing specimens?) Then the following year, Jerry’s Progeny gets hit with Ben’s Pollen, and so on.
It’s kind of a new cross, because it’s getting hit with pollen from a different seed plant, but it’s the same genetics.

im not sure if this has been tried before, or even what to call it?
Double-BackCross?
Back-Braid Breeding?

Thoughts?

You can try what you mentioned , its just really time consuming and to capture traits that are dominant or recessive is no easy task , i think a lot of breeders with experience or time will go with f1 and explore hybrid vigor , then perhaps back cross to the desired mother , you will probably find what yoir looking for , but to stabalize a seed line is difficult .....
You can feminize your plant , but creating a stable regular seedline is tough , usually why honest seed vendors list a bunch of phenotypes as the expected outcome of growing their seeds ....
Just my opinion

 

[GimpDaddy]

Hey gimp ,

You can try what you mentioned , its just really time consuming and to capture traits that are dominant or recessive is no easy task , i think a lot of breeders with experience or time will go with f1 and explore hybrid vigor , then perhaps back cross to the desired mother , you will probably find what yoir looking for , but to stabalize a seed line is difficult .....
You can feminize your plant , but creating a stable regular seedline is tough , usually why honest seed vendors list a bunch of phenotypes as the expected outcome of growing their seeds ....
Just my opinion

I Really appreciate your input.

i think it WOULD be best if I take this pollen and cross it back the original P1 cut of The Gift that I was given. That is the plan.
Currently that cut is not in my possession: a trusted friend is holding it for me in his grow, back in Hawaii. I’ve asked him to send me live clones of the cut, but his cuttings are still kinda young. If I can’t get a cut sent, I may be able to send him back some of my pollen so he can pollinate the P1 cut back there, and just send me the seeds.

I do not consider myself a very talented grower, or even a very smart man. But I do strive to be a man of integrity. I was planning on using this thread to keep track of all my data and progress, and hopefully be able to identify different phenotypes for other potential growers. There are other traits that I’d like to explore and phenohunt for, as well. Tasty Terp profiles, cerebral couchlock highs, daytime functional pain relief, and mold/PM resistance, etc.

 

[dire wolf]

I like your idea of sending him the pollen .....

 

[GimpDaddy]

Hey gimp , i feel like you need to start with the clone that you were gifted , next time , make a sandwich , stack it up with lettuce and mixed greens , put all kinds of crap on it stick a few clones in the salad mix ,,wrap it up put it in a baggie with a bag of chips and a pickle ..... no one will see it
Im not kidding

Coincidentally, the dude who gave me the cut, told me to just put it inside a Subway Vegetarian sandwich, with no condiments. I almost did too!!
The reason that I followed my hunch not to fly back with my clones, is because I had been stopped at the airport on the way there. I was caught with about 100 pre-roll joints, about 1000 cannabis capsules, and roughly 50 brownies. They let me go (MED state to MED state) but i was pretty sure they were going to search me thoroughly on the way home.
I was just grateful that TSA didn’t confiscate all my seeds when we flew home

 

[GimpDaddy]

Decided to name the 2 males “Kingston” and “Jah” after my 2 sons.

Forgot to mention that I gave them a handful of NFTG OneShot a couple days ago.
Opened up the tent to check on them this morning and they both had the Santa’s Beard Mycellium Growth going at their root base, where I had given them the OneShot.
I put a Zkittlez and a (Space Dawg x Blueberry f4) into the flower tent with the two boys. I’m sure I won’t get tons of flower from them, but they will catch pollen from the males, and there is no where else in the yard to put them.
the Zkittlez is quite a bit taller than the Space Dawg Cross, so I switched them around, for a little more even light coverage across the canopy.

 

[GimpDaddy]

Beautiful!!!!!

Thanks!!

 

[revfunk]

Decided to name the 2 males “Kingston” and “Jah” after my 2 sons.

Forgot to mention that I gave them a handful of NFTG OneShot a couple days ago.
Opened up the tent to check on them this morning and they both had the Santa’s Beard Mycellium Growth going at their root base, where I had given them the OneShot.
I put a Zkittlez and a (Space Dawg x Blueberry f4) into the flower tent with the two boys. I’m sure I won’t get tons of flower from them, but they will catch pollen from the males, and there is no where else in the yard to put them.
the Zkittlez is quite a bit taller than the Space Dawg Cross, so I switched them around, for a little more even light coverage across the canopy.View attachment 977406View attachment 977407View attachment 977408View attachment 977409View attachment 977410View attachment 977411View attachment 977412View attachment 977413

2 excellent names!

Respect

 

[GimpDaddy]

day 10:

kingston And Jah both have a few (3-4) Fully developed seed pods that have opened and dropped pollen. They opened up like little flowers.

I had to rush to the store to go get turkey bags to tie them up. I’m certain that the two females in there with them have been fully pollinated.
Not sure if dropping pollin by day 10 is a common trait, or a signal that the Gift has passed on the early maturity trait to these males.
Documenting this data now, to compare with other male specimen in the future.
I secured a turkey bag loosely over each plant, with a zip tie. I’m concerned about the possibility of condensation from the moisture inside that bag possibly ruining the pollin.
will check for water droplets inside of bag, tomorrow morning

 

[GimpDaddy]

Well I was right about moisture condensation inside the plastic bag. I removed the bags from the plants this morning.
collecting and saving pollen is extremely labor-intensive and tedious, but I was able to collect a minuscule amount and Preserve it in a plastic tube. I included a couple of Q-tips inside the tube, for applying the pollen and/or absorption of any potential moisture/condensation.
Immediately headed out to the post office, and sent that pollen out to my buddy who is holding my cut of The Gift.

 

[GimpDaddy]

Early Harvested Pollen has been sent back to pollinate my cut of The Gift for the Backcross.

Tangie x The Gift f1 female is hardening off outback, recovering rather quickly from the transition. Almost ready for pollination. Bring on the f2 generation.

With the spontaneous appearance of a possible Autoflower Zkittlez pheno, this breeding project is really starting to excite me.

 

[GimpDaddy]

*Pollen from the plant named Kingston was sent back to Hawaii for the backcross*

 

[GimpDaddy]

These are the little pollen kits I came up with. The sealed plastic tube with the pollen and q-tip, is placed in a re-purposed Doob tube, labeled, and then placed in a freezer bag (Also labelled) and then put in the freezer of the kegerator.

 

[dire wolf]

Coincidentally, the dude who gave me the cut, told me to just put it inside a Subway Vegetarian sandwich, with no condiments. I almost did too!!
The reason that I followed my hunch not to fly back with my clones, is because I had been stopped at the airport on the way there. I was caught with about 100 pre-roll joints, about 1000 cannabis capsules, and roughly 50 brownies. They let me go (MED state to MED state) but i was pretty sure they were going to search me thoroughly on the way home.
I was just grateful that TSA didn’t confiscate all my seeds when we flew home

Gotcha , but next time do the subway , works everytime , my wife actually ate my clones once on the plane , she forgot .....
I gave her s good look in the eye and said , hows that sandwich taste ? I was pissed ......

 

[GimpDaddy]

I collected pollen from the two males for 3 days. Got 4 of those little pollinating kits from each male. Both males have been cut and juiced.
Decided I’m not going to use this pollen for EVERY plant out back. Probably just going to do 5 or 6 crosses. The Gift Backcross, Tangie x The Gift f2, the Afghan Landrace, and a few others.

 

[Kron3007]

Yes. It’s why it was such a closely guarded secret, for so long.

that is the trait that I’m going to try to pass on/isolate.
But I don’t know whether it was Dominant or Recessive

I think flowering time would be a quantitative trait, meaning it is under the control of many different genes and would not be dominant or recessive. The dominant/recessive dichotomy really only works for qualitative traits that are under the control of one, or few, genes. The classic example of this is Mendel's peas, looking at traits like colour. In this case, the trait is controlled by a single gene and the pea can be yellow or green.

In the case of flowering time, it can be an infinite number of values within a given range, suggesting it is the result of many different genes interacting with one another (and the environment).

For qualitative traits, the offspring will generally fall between the two parents but there will be variation among them. Each generation, you would select the ones on the extreme end of the trait and over generations many of these genes would be fixed and the mean will shift in the direction of the selective pressure.

The principles here are pretty straight forward. The problem is that breeding for quantitative traits requires large numbers of plants, or extreme luck, which makes it challenging. This limitation is the main reason cannabis lacks many stable cultivars and instead relies on cloning the winners.