Mimed’s Perpetual Thread

[dire wolf]

The buds look nice ....
Were you being that " notorious under feeder" that you once spoke about ?
But what about the fried leaves ? Hmmm

 

[MIMedGrower]

The buds look nice ....
Were you being that " notorious under feeder" that you once spoke about ?
But what about the fried leaves ? Hmmm

Im sure its the root aphids not totally wiped out and resurge.

I will know more when the next plants come up. They will get 2 doses of merit (imid) and the controlled release fertilizer prills scratched in. They should have plenty of nutes to fall back on.

But yeah. Root aphids. They suck.

 

[dire wolf]

Maybe I've had them over the years , but can't remember identifying them ...
Yea , got to be ...your problem ...how frustrating , sometimes it ain't easy

 

[Kanzeon]

Effect of some insecticides alone and in combination with salicylic acid against aphid, Aphis gossypii, and whitefly Bemisia tabaci on the cotton field - Bulletin of the National Research Centre

Background Cotton is one of the most important industrial crops in Egypt and worldwide. During its growth stages, cotton is threatened by several pests including aphids (Aphis gossypii Glover) and whiteflies (Bemisia tabaci) which lead to deleterious effects on cotton growth, yield, and quality...

link.springer.com

Just a bit of evidence that Aspirin may combat aphids and can help plant signalling in dealing with them in case you want to give it a shot. If I somehow don't have them, I credit it to aspirin.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Here is another good one on sa. But it does show greater than 2mM applied causes damage. 1mM is the dosage that helped reduce pesticide usage in your link.

Salicylic Acid as a Safe Plant Protector and Growth Regulator

Since salicylic acid (SA) was discovered as an elicitor of tobacco plants inducing the resistance against Tobacco mosaic virus (TMV) in 1979, increasing reports suggest that SA indeed is a key plant hormone regulating plant immunity. In addition, recent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And here is some info on spraying using aspirin rather than actual sa.




All info i am seeing is for spraying the leaves not root drenching. And the article you linked is regular leaf eating aphids. Not much more resistant root aphids.


I am not seeing how to properly dose using aspirin and the aspirin doesnt have the preferred sa but asalicitic acid a derivitive.


Very interesting and i will further study. Thank you @Kanzeon

 

[Milson]

What is the hypothesis of how they move from wherever they were to clean soil? Like I get that once they are there, they are there and chemicals are pretty useless for them (including imid from what I have seen...but not definite enough to share bc I was unable to find the damn paper they mentioned...and it was an organic site so I am skeptical.). But it just seems to break the laws of physics for an egg to become a flyer without food and then get down in your roots.

They have no food in the wall or floor, right? I know @Kanzeon discovered a problem recently in his wall.

Btw, just to save you chasing it down...

How to Get Rid of Root Aphids | Planet Natural

How to spot and organically control root aphids. A growing problem, especially among indoor growers, and spreading through parts of the country where they haven't been seen before.

www.planetnatural.com

 

[MIMedGrower]

What is the hypothesis of how they move from wherever they were to clean soil? Like I get that once they are there, they are there and chemicals are pretty useless for them (including imid from what I have seen...but not definite enough to share bc I was unable to find the damn paper they mentioned...and it was an organic site so I am skeptical.). But it just seems to break the laws of physics for an egg to become a flyer without food and then get down in your roots.

They have no food in the wall or floor, right? I know @Kanzeon discovered a problem recently in his wall.

Btw, just to save you chasing it down...

How to Get Rid of Root Aphids | Planet Natural

How to spot and organically control root aphids. A growing problem, especially among indoor growers, and spreading through parts of the country where they haven't been seen before.

www.planetnatural.com

View attachment 1048438

I think they are born with enough energy to fly and give birth to a live root aphid. The eggs are only layed to over winter and infect next season. Or next grow if you will.

The nymph can live on any organic matter which is everywhere even in a clean house. Fleas do this. Rather than eggs the flea lives in its cocoon up to a year and the emerging nymph can live on a few skin cells in the couch until it can feed on flesh and propogate.


Anyway. The adult root aphid simply crawls out of the pot. The damn tiny half millimeter thing and walks to the next pot.

Apparently they can be discouraged with cloth or something covering the drain holes.


And i read the imid can be ineffective because the chemical goes up into the leaves rather than stay in the root zone where the bugs feed.

And it recommended 2 applications 2 weeks apart to help keep more imid in the root zone for enough contact.

I am learning a lot at least. Hope it helps. These bugs did take out all the grapes in france once. Well a close relative of the root aphid.

 

[Milson]

I think they are born with enough energy to fly and give birth to a live root aphid. The eggs are only layed to over winter and infect next season. Or next grow if you will.

The nymph can live on any organic matter which is everywhere even in a clean house. Fleas do this. Rather than eggs the flea lives in its cocoon up to a year and the emerging nymph can live on a few skin cells in the couch until it can feed on flesh and propogate.


Anyway. The adult root aphid simply crawls out of the pot. The damn tiny half millimeter thing and walks to the next pot.

Apparently they can be discouraged with cloth or something covering the drain holes.


And i read the imid can be ineffective because the chemical goes up into the leaves rather than stay in the root zone where the bugs feed.

And it recommended 2 applications 2 weeks apart to help keep more imid in the root zone for enough contact.

I am learning a lot at least. Hope it helps. These bugs did take out all the grapes in france once. Well a close relative of the root aphid.

Is there a reason for not using DE to help control?

 

[MIMedGrower]

Is there a reason for not using DE to help control?

I havent read anywhere it would be effective.

And when i was new i used it sprinkled on top for bug protection. It mostly makes a gookey mess in the soil. And i fear breathing it when working with it dry.

So i just stopped using it. A layer of sand would be more effective to stop soil bugs I think and not hold water.

It is an excellent source of silica i believe.

 

[Milson]

I havent read anywhere it would be effective.

And when i was new i used it sprinkled on top for bug protection. It mostly makes a gookey mess in the soil. And i fear breathing it when working with it dry.

So i just stopped using it. A layer of sand would be more effective to stop soil bugs I think and not hold water.

It is an excellent source of silica i believe.

Fair enough. We use it for managing bugs of whatever kind and it helps us. Banana plants are just freaking bug magnets and my wife is continuously buying potted plants. I know, disaster awaits me.

My thought is just like playing an rpg. The enemy is resistant to chemical weapons: try kinetic weapons!

Sorry if my questions are annoying you. Personally when I'm stuck on a probem churning through it and reorganizing it again and again helps, but I can see it being unwelcome too.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Fair enough. We use it for managing bugs of whatever kind and it helps us. Banana plants are just freaking bug magnets and my wife is continuously buying potted plants. I know, disaster awaits me.

My thought is just like playing an rpg. The enemy is resistant to chemical weapons: try kinetic weapons!

Sorry if my questions are annoying you. Personally when I'm stuck on a probem churning through it and reorganizing it again and again helps, but I can see it being unwelcome too.

No i appreciate the discussion. I may need a break from thinking about this.

I have not tried nematodes or predator bugs and if i can figure how to keep it warm in my cold basement i may set up a 4x8 gorilla tent i bought on sale and never used and start new plants down there. Maybe moving the grow will interupt them?

 

[Terpz719]

I havent read anywhere it would be effective.

And when i was new i used it sprinkled on top for bug protection. It mostly makes a gookey mess in the soil. And i fear breathing it when working with it dry.

So i just stopped using it. A layer of sand would be more effective to stop soil bugs I think and not hold water.

It is an excellent source of silica i believe.

+1. I've never had any luck with DE controlling anything. I believe RAW uses DE as their silica product.

 

[Milson]

No i appreciate the discussion. I may need a break from thinking about this.

I have not tried nematodes or predator bugs and if i can figure how to keep it warm in my cold basement i may set up a 4x8 gorilla tent i bought on sale and never used and start new plants down there. Maybe moving the grow will interupt them?

I think a tent with a filtered intake would be a meaningful experiment that I hypothesize would have a good chance at improvement.

 

[dire wolf]

Why does everything have to be so annoying ? Fucking bugs ........
I just pulled a tick out of my leg

 

[dire wolf]

I have used prredatory nematodes many times with pretty good success , at least that's how I remember , are root aphids different than the " aphids " I've seen on plants ?

 

[Kanzeon]

I think they are born with enough energy to fly and give birth to a live root aphid. The eggs are only layed to over winter and infect next season. Or next grow if you will.

The nymph can live on any organic matter which is everywhere even in a clean house. Fleas do this. Rather than eggs the flea lives in its cocoon up to a year and the emerging nymph can live on a few skin cells in the couch until it can feed on flesh and propogate.


Anyway. The adult root aphid simply crawls out of the pot. The damn tiny half millimeter thing and walks to the next pot.

Apparently they can be discouraged with cloth or something covering the drain holes.


And i read the imid can be ineffective because the chemical goes up into the leaves rather than stay in the root zone where the bugs feed.

And it recommended 2 applications 2 weeks apart to help keep more imid in the root zone for enough contact.

I am learning a lot at least. Hope it helps. These bugs did take out all the grapes in france once. Well a close relative of the root aphid.

Ah yes, you read about the phylloxera infestation! Fascinating stuff, it was solved by grafting vines from v. vinifera onto rootstock of v. labrusca, which exudes a sap that traps and kills the aphids when they try to feed. Most people don't know that there essentially wouldn't be wine without North American rootstock. The only places they didn't get to are in South America.

That species of them is actually deterred by sandy soil too. Wonder if putting an inch of sand at the top of the pots would keep them from getting around?

 

[Anthem]

MiMed hey man sorry to hear about your issues. It looks like the little bastards might be back. Sound like you have run most of the gamut of safer insecticides. Thinking they have gained resistance to the products already used. Take a moment and try to consider products that are outside the box. Some mentioned Nematodes, I would consider those and any other type of predatory insect. You got to think outside of the products you have tried. You will figure it out. Maybe something like Nematodes, predatory insects and a different type of microbes.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I have used prredatory nematodes many times with pretty good success , at least that's how I remember , are root aphids different than the " aphids " I've seen on plants ?

Yes.

 

[MIMedGrower]

So previous damage aside the plants are seeming to get back on schedule. Watering time was shorter and the buds have grown considerably. They look more vibrant and are hungry. Hope it stays this way. Seems to be about 2 weeks to root aphids back and we are through the first week. I guess its possible they died. ;-)

Pretty ugly but what can ya do? :-)

 

[Milson]

She is looking very nice. Who is that?