Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

[MIMedGrower]

Both teas done in 5 gal with airstone fed once a week and kept going. The tea kept like that will add bacteria weekly and the broken down nutrients they provide. Like I say not necessary but its a good way to provide bioavailable nutrients and a bacteria boost each week. Small amount of dry amendments keeps things going. Its a balancing act that you kinda need to figure as you go.

I used to keep a 5 gal full of sponge filters and add ammonia daily. Then whenever I needed to start a new tank or had a customer doing so I would sell them one so the tank would take like a week to become established instead of 5-6weeks

Even microbe man who wrote the books that made this stuff popular says not to keep bubbling the compost tea past a certain time. And dont bother at all unless you have a good microscope and know what you are looking at.

and the garden myth busters say it causes a bloom that competes with the plant for food then the extra bacteria simply die off when the food supply runs out.

these things appear naturally when conditions are right. They dont need our help. Just some organic matter.

 

[BudGoodman]

what will be in the teas?

Hand full of worm castings and a hand full of Ocean Forest (I was growing in OF) in a paint strainer bag or panty hose.
Toss that into a five gallon bucket with some fish emulsion, molasses, and Vitamin C... Fill it 3/4 up with water and bubble at room temp... You'll know when it blooms because you'll likely have a mess on floor around the bucket.
Add it to a 50 gallon resi and water your girls.
I'd add some fossilized bird shit to the bag week two of flower and top dress the plants with it at the same time.
Worked for me... Smells bad... Especially if it goes rancid.

 

[Aqua Man]

Even microbe man who wrote the books that made this stuff popular says not to keep bubbling the compost tea past a certain time. And dont bother at all unless you have a good microscope and know what you are looking at.

and the garden myth busters say it causes a bloom that competes with the plant for food then the extra bacteria simply die off when the food supply runs out.

these things appear naturally when conditions are right. They dont need our help. Just some organic matter.

I can agree with that... but again you need to look at the reasons. I'm going to guess like most teas the food source is depleted and should be used quickly at that point. But if feed small amounts daily it can be kept going. There is a bid difference between a heavy feed with massive population of microbes and a light sustained brew.

Also agree they grow naturally but also take time... denitrifying bacteria with no inoculation can take 6 weeks

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

Yeah because the nutrient concentration was low. Not the same with a nutrient hog like cannabis. The reason teas need oxygenated is the sheer concentration of bacteria and high nutrient content. Remember ph can crash as bacteria consume o2 and release co2 from respiration so the more biological load and bigger the population the more oxygen is required. Teas usually shouldnt smell to bad unless it starts to die off. Thats usually the dead bacteria.

The way I had the water recycling it was splashing around a lot as it was pumped and drained, kind of like a waterfall. So it was getting a lot of aeration, just not constant aeration. In your system the air stone makes a lot of sense to me.

I think it was more the cool coastal climate I was in that gave the lettuce an edge, and lettuce loves a ton of water so it tends to be a good candidate for any kind of hydro system. I think if I wanted to grow heavy feeders in that system I would just need to add more of the fish ferts.

 

[Dirtbag]

Yeah because the nutrient concentration was low. Not the same with a nutrient hog like cannabis. The reason teas need oxygenated is the sheer concentration of bacteria and high nutrient content. Remember ph can crash as bacteria consume o2 and release co2 from respiration so the more biological load and bigger the population the more oxygen is required. Teas usually shouldnt smell to bad unless it starts to die off. Thats usually the dead bacteria.

Or anaerobic bacteria if the oxygen concentration is too low.

When I started working at the golf club 12 years ago the superintendent before me had problems with some of the greens. The thatch layer was very thick, and the lack of adequate aeration caused compaction and the formation of black mat layers that would decompose anaerobically and off gas these huge bubbles of gas under the putting green surface.
I remember going out to number 8 green one time and seeing a huge blister about 3 feet across and a foot high, right in the middle of the putting green. I figured it was water from a leak so I stuck a shovel in to drain it and all I got was a big whoosh of super nasty smelling air full of sulphides. That was just from decomposing anaerobes in the black mat layer. Lifted up the whole 2" thick sod mat above the nasty layer.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I can agree with that... but again you need to look at the reasons. I'm going to guess like most teas the food source is depleted and should be used quickly at that point. But if feed small amounts daily it can be kept going. There is a bid difference between a heavy feed with massive population of microbes and a light sustained brew.

Also agree they grow naturally but also take time... denitrifying bacteria with no inoculation can take 6 weeks

He said in the book teaming with microbes that extended “brewing” (really silly phrase for this) causes more unfriendly bacteria than friendly.

and again he says if you cant identify you cant actually know what you are doing is beneficial. In other words it is easy to mess this up.

 

[Aqua Man]

Or anaerobic bacteria if the oxygen concentration is too low.

When I started working at the golf club 12 years ago the superintendent before me had problems with some of the greens. The thatch layer was very thick, and the lack of adequate aeration caused compaction and the formation of black mat layers that would decompose anaerobically and off gas these huge bubbles of gas under the putting green surface.
I remember going out to number 8 green one time and seeing a huge blister about 3 feet across and a foot high, right in the middle of the putting green. I figured it was water from a leak so I stuck a shovel in to drain it and all I got was a big whoosh of super nasty smelling air full of sulphides. That was just from decomposing anaerobes in the black mat layer. Lifted up the whole 2" thick sod mat above the nasty layer.

Yes h2s (hydrogen sulfide) gas is produced by anaerobic bacteria. Often seen in abandoned wells or stagnant ponds.

 

[Aqua Man]

He said in the book teaming with microbes that extended “brewing” (really silly phrase for this) causes more unfriendly bacteria than friendly.

and again he says if you cant identify you cant actually know what you are doing is beneficial. In other words it is easy to mess this up.

What of I told you I can identify denitrifying bacteria?

 

[Dirtbag]

He said in the book teaming with microbes that extended “brewing” (really silly phrase for this) causes more unfriendly bacteria than friendly.

and again he says if you cant identify you cant actually know what you are doing is beneficial. In other words it is easy to mess this up.

I agree it can be easily messed up. Just look at some of the clowns on YouTube...

I've always made my teas in a very specific way, short duration, highly aerated and temp controlled with a fishtank heater. Combined with a good nose for the smell you're looking for, it gives the best chance of success without breaking out the lab equipment.

 

[Aqua Man]

I dont have a great understanding of soil microbes but I'm pretty sure most are either nitrogen fixing, denitrifying, nitrogen consuming, or responsible for the breakdown of sulfur and phosphorus.

 

[Aqua Man]

I agree it can be easily messed up. Just look at some of the clowns on YouTube...

I've always made my teas in a very specific way, short duration, highly aerated and temp controlled with a fishtank heater. Combined with a good nose for the smell you're looking for, it gives the best chance of success without breaking out the lab equipment.

Yeah when it starts to smell they are dying. But I think light dose teas are not something common in our work. Classic examples are aquariums, aquaponics etc.

I think far more beneficial than blasting huge pop and massive food sources. Easily kept inoculated and can be fed every watering.

 

[Aqua Man]

He said in the book teaming with microbes that extended “brewing” (really silly phrase for this) causes more unfriendly bacteria than friendly.

and again he says if you cant identify you cant actually know what you are doing is beneficial. In other words it is easy to mess this up.

Essentially extended brewing is an aquarium. So I would say he is wrong and would gladly debate that stance with him.

Now in his application he may be correct but like many things there are many ways to skin a cat.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Essentially extended brewing is an aquarium. So I would say he is wrong and would gladly debate that stance with him.

Now in his application he may be correct but like many things there are many ways to skin a cat.

Not at all like an aquarium. Live fish in an aquarium. Full life cycle present.

 

[Aqua Man]

Not at all like an aquarium. Live fish in an aquarium. Full life cycle present.

What do the fish contribute?

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

I brew my teas 12-24 hours aerated. How long constitutes extended brewing?
Are we talking about keeping a tea continuously brewing throughout the cycle?

 

[Aqua Man]

I brew mine 12-24 hours aerated. How long constitutes extended brewing?
Are we talking about keeping a tea continuously brewing throughout the cycle?

Yes. Starting a tea and keeping it going.

 

[beluga]

You guys are getting into too much cool shit for me to not be watching this.

Just curious... are there any beneficial anaerobic bacteria?
I can only assume they'd hang out in clay and maybe bedrock... whatever sub-topsoil material... and I can only assume that there's got to be some of them that perform functions that are aerobic lads cannot. Maybe I'm off my gourd.

 

[MIMedGrower]

What do the fish contribute?

I dont know the fish tank lifecycle but having life in there balances things differently. And of course a carbon filter is present to take out bad stuff.


the point is bubbling compost for an extended time causes more bad bacteria than good according to the author.

no way to measure what you are doing either. Input or output.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I brew my teas 12-24 hours aerated. How long constitutes extended brewing?
Are we talking about keeping a tea continuously brewing throughout the cycle?

Its been a couple years since i read the book im quoting but 12 to 24 hours is the recommended time. However wothout a microscope and a way to count microbes its all a bad guess.

and not proven at all to help the plants. But is proven to compete with the plants for food.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

You guys are getting into too much cool shit for me to not be watching this.

Just curious... are there any beneficial anaerobic bacteria?
I can only assume they'd hang out in clay and maybe bedrock... whatever sub-topsoil material... and I can only assume that there's got to be some of them that perform functions that are aerobic lads cannot. Maybe I'm off my gourd.

Yes there are tons of beneficial anaerobes.