Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

[Aqua Man]

Let me explain what I mean. Traditionally speaking we brew very concentrated teas that have a massive bacteria population and require aeration to keep up with respiration.

Now food source determines bacteria population (this is fact) when all else is in line.

Instead of supplying massive amounts of food for the bacteria you supply small amounts daily to keep it going and healthy. Just as any aquarist knows. The longer a tank has been established the healthier it will be. Infact many reef keepers with fish worth thousands of dollars a piece will not introduce them to a reef that has not been running more than a year.

@mimed no serious aquarist will put a carbon filter on a tank... no way in hell. Sponge filter, trickles filters, hob, canisters but never carbon media.

The fish do nothing more than provide a food source for the bacteria. I can cycle a tank and keep it healthy using pure ammonia or even just fish food. You don't need the fish.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yes there are tons of beneficial anaerobes.

100%

 

[Aqua Man]

Anerrobic bacteria are good and bad just like aerobic bacteria. The difference is anaerobic conditions are not good for our plants.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

Let me explain what I mean. Traditionally speaking we brew very concentrated teas that have a massive bacteria population and require aeration to keep up with respiration.

Now food source determines bacteria population (this is fact) when all else is in line.

Instead of supplying massive amounts of food for the bacteria you supply small amounts daily to keep it going and healthy. Just as any aquarist knows. The longer a tank has been established the healthier it will be. Infact many reef keepers with fish worth thousands of dollars a piece will not introduce them to a reef that has not been running less than a year.

@mimed no serious aquarist will put a carbon filter on a tank... no way in hell. Sponge filter, trickles filters, hob, canisters but never carbon media.

The fish do nothing more than provide a food source for the bacteria. I can cycle a tank and keep it healthy using pure ammonia or even just fish food. You don't need the fish.

This also seems really nice from a convenience perspective. Stabilize big happy res and autofeed from it.

 

[Aqua Man]

This also seems really nice from a convenience perspective. Stabilize big happy res and autofeed from it.

Yes its absolutely possible. In fact (here we go again.... bumpershining the dirt mobile) i will attempt it in the grow after this next one (my redemption). Feeding with nothing but teas and ammonia from the supermarket. P will likely be my biggest challenge.

Fuck me lol forst time organics and gonna do it in hydro to boot... its should be a shit show.

My head hurts already trying to do calculations

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

Maybe Lowenfels is right on the brewing time for compost tea. Seems like what you are going for is quite different from compost tea, just as aerobic but more aquatic. More similar to an aquaponics system without the fish, kind of like the system I had, but in drain to waist form. Really exciting stuff.

 

[beluga]

Anerrobic bacteria are good and bad just like aerobic bacteria. The difference is anaerobic conditions are not good for our plants.

Right... that's a facepalmer.
I guess I should rephrase,
Is it worth it to try to incorporate them or their byproduct into our media? I suppose they wouldn't thrive then, and then wtf's the point?

 

[MIMedGrower]

Let me explain what I mean. Traditionally speaking we brew very concentrated teas that have a massive bacteria population and require aeration to keep up with respiration.

Now food source determines bacteria population (this is fact) when all else is in line.

Instead of supplying massive amounts of food for the bacteria you supply small amounts daily to keep it going and healthy. Just as any aquarist knows. The longer a tank has been established the healthier it will be. Infact many reef keepers with fish worth thousands of dollars a piece will not introduce them to a reef that has not been running more than a year.

@mimed no serious aquarist will put a carbon filter on a tank... no way in hell. Sponge filter, trickles filters, hob, canisters but never carbon media.

The fish do nothing more than provide a food source for the bacteria. I can cycle a tank and keep it healthy using pure ammonia or even just fish food. You don't need the fish.

Sorry i meant to put sponge filter. I realize no carbon.

so what is the benefit to plants? (Which is where i had hoped this discussion would go).

 

[Aqua Man]

Maybe Lowenfels is right on the brewing time for compost tea. Seems like what you are going for is quite different from compost tea, just as aerobic but more aquatic. More similar to an aquaponics system without the fish, kind of like the system I had, but in drain to waist form. Really exciting stuff.

Exactly that. Small dose of ammonia a day and small amounts of compost tea. Just need to try and figure out my ratios and dosages.... not easy in organics and especially someone organically challenged like myself.

 

[Aqua Man]

Right... that's a facepalmer.
I guess I should rephrase,
Is it worth it to try to incorporate them or their byproduct into our media? I suppose they wouldn't thrive then, and then wtf's the point?

Not worth it.

 

[Aqua Man]

Sorry i meant to put sponge filter. I realize no carbon.

so what is the benefit to plants? (Which is where i had hoped this discussion would go).

The only single benefit i can see is the difference of the media. Pure hydro or coco providing a better gas exchange and usually higher o2 levels which I feel is the reason for the increased growth over soil. But I have no proof thats the actual case.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

Right... that's a facepalmer.
I guess I should rephrase,
Is it worth it to try to incorporate them or their byproduct into our media? I suppose they wouldn't thrive then, and then wtf's the point?

Their are other systems like the earth box that go the other direction and focus heavily on these anaerobes. Not the right fit for this system it seems.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Right... that's a facepalmer.
I guess I should rephrase,
Is it worth it to try to incorporate them or their byproduct into our media? I suppose they wouldn't thrive then, and then wtf's the point?

If conditions are favorable like we all strive for then the proper bacteria will appear spontaneously. It does not need our help.

amended soil feeds plants fine without any help from us. Just add water.

 

[Aqua Man]

If conditions are favorable like we all strive for then the proper bacteria will appear spontaneously. It does not need our help.

amended soil feeds plants fine without any help from us. Just add water.

Absolutely... the issues lies with how long that takes to occur naturally

 

[MIMedGrower]

The only single benefit i can see is the difference of the media. Pure hydro or coco providing a better gas exchange and usually higher o2 levels which I feel is the reason for the increased growth over soil. But I have no proof thats the actual case.

The faster growth and even faster in water culture and even faster in aeroponics is because of nutrient availability and ease of uptake.

nutrients and how easy they are taken up is the factor.

coco can be watered/fed more often. Thats the reason.

but it only matters so much in veg with young plants. Once mature they have a big enough root system to compete even in dirt.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Absolutely... the issues lies with how long that takes to occur naturally

It is instantaneous. If i water potting soil it starts to feed the plants right away. Some elements are more difficult for the plant is more of an issue.

This is hobby stuff. No tea brewing in the organic greenhouse around the corner. Just a compost bin. The compost alone is all that is needed.

 

[beluga]

Their are other systems like the earth box that go the other direction and focus heavily on these anaerobes. Not the right fit for this system it seems.

Right... haven't looked much into those yet.

I guess the "logic" my brain was running with was kind of a progressive type of symbiosis. Like a mineral layer providing the raw material for your anaerobic layer then your anaerobic layer providing a nutritive system for your aerobic layer and so forth.

 

[Aqua Man]

The faster growth and even faster in water culture and even faster in aeroponics is because of nutrient availability and ease of uptake.

nutrients and how easy they are taken up is the factor.

coco can be watered/fed more often. Thats the reason.

but it only matters so much in veg with young plants. Once mature they have a big enough root system to compete even in dirt.

Yeah bit o2 levels have a direct impact on uptake. Many moving parts. Like light co2 etc.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

Right... haven't looked much into those yet.

I guess the "logic" my brain was running with was kind of a progressive type of symbiosis. Like a mineral layer providing the raw material for your anaerobic layer then your anaerobic layer providing a nutritive system for your aerobic layer and so forth.

Sounds like soil.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Yeah bit o2 levels have a direct impact on uptake. Many moving parts. Like light co2 etc.

Right. Aeroponics delivers the most o2.

the rest of the parameters always have to keep up or the plant will slow in any method.

its the real reason soil is easiest. Its the slowest.