Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

[Dirtbag]

That makes no sense the ingredients are crab meal and guano and oyster shell and such.

Even organic nutrients get broken down into ionic salts. Either by chemical processing or biological processes.

 

[Aqua Man]

Even organic nutrients get broken down into ionic salts. Either by chemical processing or biological processes.

Yup. Part of the reason organics and ppm just don't mix

 

[Milson]

I was about to post something, but then I realized I should learn exactly how PPM is measured on a chemical level and shut up until I understand that.

If anyone has any resources to get started that would be dope. Otherwise it will be off adventuring into the great unknown again and with it sifting for stuff that actually makes sense to me.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

That makes no sense the ingredients are crab meal and guano and oyster shelland such.

these are the ingredients in the pbp right?

also what is pbp?

Does the earth juice have an ingredients list out of curiosity?

 

[MIMedGrower]

these are the ingredients in the pbp right?

Does the earth juice have an ingredients list out of curiosity?

Yes kind of but pbp says derived from

good question on earth juice ingredients.


i read pbp meters because of the calcium and mag carbonate added.

does seaweed extract read because of metal content?

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

Part of my question was what pbp stands for, like what product are we talking about?

 

[Aqua Man]

Both end up being inorganic salts.... the only difference is the process used to create them. Organic or organically derived have been or require to be broken down by microbes into inorganic salts and are from living sources that contain a carbon molecule

In the end they are the same to the plant...

A plant CANNOT uptake organic nutrients but rather they MUST be processed into inorganic salts before being available for uptake by the plant.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Part of my question was what pbp stands for, like what product are we talking about?

Botanicare Pure Blend Pro.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Both end up being inorganic salts.... the only difference is the process used to create them. Organic or organically derived have been or require to be broken down by microbes into inorganic salts and are from living sources that contain a carbon molecule

In the end they are the same to the plant...

A plant CANNOT uptake organic nutrients but rather they MUST be processed into inorganic salts before being available for uptake by the plant.

Yes but this doesnt answer the question about ec meters.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yes but this doesnt answer the question about ec meters.

Ok sorry.

So ec measure ionic salts dissolved in the water. These will be available for uptake. The nutrients in organic form are in a suspension, not actually dissolved into the water. As they are broken down by microbes into inorganic salts they become soluble and will be available and delectable with a ppm meter

At least thats how I understand it

 

[MIMedGrower]

Ok sorry.

So ec measure ionic salts dissolved in the water. These will be available for uptake. The nutrients in organic form are in a suspension, not actually dissolved into the water. As they are broken down by microbes into inorganic salts they become soluble and will be available and delectable with a ppm meter

At least thats how I understand it

Me too. So if @Dirtbag checks after 24hrs bubbling will he get a higher ec reading? Or not until runoff later?

 

[Aqua Man]

Trying to look for a reference and this kinda explains it better than I can.

I’m growing organically and my readings are way off!
Yeah, this gets a little complicated. PPM are a straightforward measure for hydroponic or standard, synthetics-based growing. There’s a set number that’s ideal for each stage of growth, and that’s it. Organic growing is a little different. Part of the philosophy of organic growing is that the nutrients don’t just come from some refined, synthetic fertilizer. The soil itself should be fortified and made nutritious for your plants using natural, organic ingredients. Why does this affect PPM readings?

Rich, healthy organic soil is more complex than artificially fertilized soil or hydroponic solutions. The nutrients are stored in more complex molecules than with artificial fertilizers, that are released slowly over time. EC meters work by measuring the electrical conductivity of salts in water; organic nutrients haven’t yet broken down into simple salts. It’s like the difference between complex carbohydrates found in whole grains and refined white sugar. The organic nutrients get broken down by microorganisms over time, much like complex carbs get broken down by our digestive system. Therefore, the PPM readings you get from organic soil won’t reflect the actual nutrients that soil contains.

However, they may not be lower, as you might expect them to be. Why? There are plenty of non-nutrient solubles found in organic fertilizers that can confuse your readings. Remember how we talked about solubles in tap water earlier? This is a similar concept; many organic soil additives can end up adding acids and carbohydrates that are electrically conductive, thus throwing off your TDS meter’s EC readings.

Is it worth testing organic soil for PPM?
Good question. Due to the complex nature of organic soil, EC readings will be too inaccurate to determine whether the appropriate amount of nutrients are present in the soil. To determine if organic soil is well-balanced for your growing system, you’ll need to carefully monitor pH, watch the plant for signs of nutrient deficiency or imbalance, and learn from experience. If you have the resources, you can send a soil or plant matter sample to a lab for analysis. Alternatively, you could always rely on our simple four-step process for growing flavorful and potent organic cannabis

 

[Aqua Man]

Me too. So if @Dirtbag checks after 24hrs bubbling will he get a higher ec reading? Or not until runoff later?

Its more of a compost extract. Just a way to deliver organic nutrients to the soil evenly.

If it was bubbled with microbes yes as time goes on the EC would rise but this is just a way to get organic nutrients delivered to the soil. The microbes in the soil will break it down over time... kinda like a slow release fertilizer.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Here is some more info on ec testing.

more to it of course. ;-)

The Ultimate Guide to Testing Electrical Conductivity of Soil

The electrical conductivity of soil can tell you if you need more nutrients, or if you have too much. Saving you time & money when managing your plants.

www.google.com

 

[Dirtbag]

Me too. So if @Dirtbag checks after 24hrs bubbling will he get a higher ec reading? Or not until runoff later?

I'll let you know in about 5 mins lol

 

[Aqua Man]

I'll let you know in about 5 mins lol

You have no bacteria in there though so I'm doubting much change. I could be wrong.

 

[Dirtbag]

Me too. So if @Dirtbag checks after 24hrs bubbling will he get a higher ec reading? Or not until runoff later?

That would be a yes. Been about 18 hrs bubbling and both ph and ec are up.

Hopefully the temp comes up a little more, this water was freezing cold yesterday. I think things will pick up once it gets over 70.

 

[Dirtbag]

You have no bacteria in there though so I'm doubting much change. I could be wrong.

I do.. I added fish shit and a tsp of Raw grow microbes to it.

 

[Aqua Man]

I do.. I added fish shit and a tsp of Raw grow microbes to it.

Ahhh

 

[MIMedGrower]

That would be a yes. Been about 18 hrs bubbling and both ph and ec are up.

Hopefully the temp comes up a little more, this water was freezing cold yesterday. I think things will pick up once it gets over 70.View attachment 1052803

So the bacteria is present and already digesting nutrients.