Dirtbags Do-over... 🤪 Back to Organic!

[Aqua Man]

Done. I'll check back on it tonight. Added 2.5 ml enzyme komplete to 500ml of nutrient. Currently sitting at o.8ec.

Should jump up faster providing there are still nutrients to process.

 

[Dirtbag]

but your opinion is the same as your point You dont know what you have added that lives and dont know if it will stick around to do its job.

The agriculture industry is like the natural health industry. They have a little evidence of something and then make a full blown product with the hype that more is better for you.

Like multi vitamins. Dont stay in your body or actually help except for maybe the b complex and some c.

there's some bro science about the bro science.:-)

Well you could be right. But I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing over here though. Ignorance is bliss right..

 

[Aqua Man]

actually adding more microbes will eat the nutrients but not necessarily help feed the plant. And the bigger the bloom. The bigger the problem. And when the nutrients are gone so are the extra microbes. No benefit to the plant. Extremely sciency bro science.

Its not the health of the plant they are used for. Its exactly as you say to process the nutrients. Other bacteria and microbes do the functions your talking about. Bacteria, fungi etc are not all one in the same. They perform specific functions.

Eg denitrifying bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. A byproduct benefit is they compete again other pathogens that consume the same food source

 

[Odiesel]

bro science hype. still might buy some of this expensive water.

 

[Aqua Man]

Didn't read but is that more about pgrs?

 

[MIMedGrower]

Bacillis amyloquiefens and trjchoderma are far from bro science. And highly unlikely to just appear on their own. There is a good reason that Large LPs use it even in hydro setups for root protection. With those in there you have a FAR smaller chance of growing any pathogenic bacteria and fungi

neither of those are for breaking down food. My point is those appear naturally.

Myco and fungus/bacteria protection are another subject. Those can be added effectively. Even pro mix has products with them.

What i am arguing is that the microbes needed to break the food down occur naturally. As well as the symbiotic plant ones.

 

[MIMedGrower]

bro science hype. still might buy some of this expensive water.

Pay the man!

 

[Dirtbag]

neither of those are for breaking down food. My point is those appear naturally.

Myco and fungus/bacteria protection are another subject. Those can be added effectively. Even pro mix has products with them.

What i am arguing is that the microbes needed to break the food down occur naturally. As well as the symbiotic plant ones.

Yeah I'm not arguing there, I agree. The primary reason I use RAW is for the trichoderma and BA though. The fish shit was a free sample so why not use it.. Like aquaman points out the abundant presence of denitrifying bacteria should process the nutrients in solution faster than they would by natural processes.

 

[Aqua Man]

@MIMedGrower usually 4-6weeks for denitrifying bacteria.

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html

 

[Aqua Man]

As organics break down they produce ammonia not nitrates and that needs to be broken down.

 

[Aqua Man]

So food for thought. Those soils that many say the lime takes times to activate before the ph will come up. I say thats half the equation (thinking about this now). As we know ammonium source nitrogen will lower soil ph. Plants also will readily take up ammonium.

With these so called hot soils I'm thinking its 2 fold. It DOES infact take time for lime to activate but it ALSO takes time for these bacteria to populate. So it is possible the ammonium these soil gives off is actually part of the reason they not only seem hot for young plants but also for the PH.

 

[Aqua Man]

Anyone have a fresh bag of happy frog or other and about $30 to test this?

 

[beluga]

Bacillis amyloquiefens and trichoderma are... ...highly unlikely to just appear on their own.

I've got probably half a dozen petri dishes that could likely confirm otherwise. Definitely trichoderma. Hard to say on which species of bacillus.

 

[Dirtbag]

I've got probably half a dozen petri dishes that could likely confirm otherwise. Definitely trichoderma. Hard to say on which species of bacillus.

Hard to say on which species of trichoderma you'd collect as well, there are 5 different subspecies, and there are only a couple specific subspecies used for root protection.

And I could say the same about Saccharomyces cerevisiae. I'm sure if I left a Petrie dish out I'd get some, but will it be the kind that makes bread or the kind that makes alcohol? Will it be a cold temperature thriving lager yeast or a turbo yeast for making moonshine? It just makes sense to add the ones you want to work with rather than hoping they find your brew naturally.

And I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if you collected Bacillius amyloquiefens from the atmosphere. No doubt you'll get bacillis, but I highly doubt you would get the amyloquiefens subspecies.

 

[Dirtbag]

I keep spelling this wrong... I knew I was, its actually Bacillus amyloliquefaciens...
I'm just calling it BA from here out cause ill never remember how to spell it lol.

 

[beluga]

Hard to say on which species of trichoderma you'd collect as well, there are 5 different subspecies, and there are only a couple specific subspecies used for root protection.

And I could say the same about Saccharomyces cerevisiae. I'm sure if I left a Petrie dish out I'd get some, but will it be the kind that makes bread or the kind that makes alcohol? Will it be a cold temperature thriving lager yeast or a turbo yeast for making moonshine? It just makes sense to add the ones you want to work with rather than hoping they find your brew naturally.

And I'd be absolutely dumbfounded if you collected Bacillius amyloquiefens from the atmosphere. No doubt you'll get bacillis, but I highly doubt you would get the amyloquiefens subspecies.

I'd be interested to see what I've gotten over the years.
I do agree that deliberately adding them is the best route to a desired outcome, but I've also come to love farmhouse ales way more than anything else... open fermentation just hits and I think it's largely due to the fact that you can pretty assuredly rely on the right microbes finding their way, so long as you give them the conditions they want.

 

[amekins]

How do you 'like all' for the past two hours and two pages of gold you guys have been posting while I was stuck in traffic..?

You don’t. You play catch-up like I am.

 

[Milson]

I'd be interested to see what I've gotten over the years.
I do agree that deliberately adding them is the best route to a desired outcome, but I've also come to love farmhouse ales way more than anything else... open fermentation just hits and I think it's largely due to the fact that you can pretty assuredly rely on the right microbes finding their way, so long as you give them the conditions they want.

I used to love calling my bread "chicago sourdough" for this reason.

Rip Stan the Starter...

Hand kneading bread dough and feeling the shifting protein development between my fingers was really satisfying. Just also associated with a dark period in my life lol....

 

[amekins]

Like sourdough bread

Yup. 78 F. Ideal dough temp.

 

[Dirtbag]

I'd be interested to see what I've gotten over the years.
I do agree that deliberately adding them is the best route to a desired outcome, but I've also come to love farmhouse ales way more than anything else... open fermentation just hits and I think it's largely due to the fact that you can pretty assuredly rely on the right microbes finding their way, so long as you give them the conditions they want.

Even farmhouse and sour beers are inoculated with cultured yeasts nowadays, there are very few breweries that don't inoculate. Even the ones that open ferment. Open fermentation is done to reduce the pressure in the vessel more than anything, so that the yeast produce the desired esters etc.. They're dosed with yeast and the Krausen will prevent any wild yeast from even getting in. Also the open fermenters some breweries use are in very well sealed, very clean environments. Most of the breweries who still open ferment without inoculation are Belgian trappist breweries using fermenting rooms that are centuries old and well developed. But even most of those have converted to inoculation for repeatability.

This is what my buddy uses for farmhouse ales. Its also what breweries use.

Strain: 3726 for Farmhouse Ale | Yeast & Cultures by Wyeast Labs

This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes. Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for farmhouse ales and saisons. This Wyeast yeast strain has been classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus using rapid PCR analysis. This strain...

wyeastlab.com