Mushroom thread

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1diesel1

1diesel1

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So, spore syringes are inherently dirty. But that doesn't mean that direct inoculation can't work, but it's a much bigger uncertainty. I did direct inoculation for a while with some success but also a lot of green.

Couple questions, (I think you may have posted, but I suck at going back and forth on my phone):
- Did you vent your PC for 10 minutes once it had a full stream of steam?
- How long did you PC?

Your grain looks prepped quite well, but that doesn't make or prevent contamination... it had to be introduced somewhere.

Couple notes:
- Glove boxes can create a positive air pressure within them that will force stuff into your media. I would pop those gloves out and try it in the Still Air Box form. Deliberate, smooth movements so to not disturb the air much.
- Did I see that you had tape over your grain jar lids? They have to be able to release steam in order to properly sterilize, so there should be some form of air exchange.

Any extra details you can think of, I'm happy to assist in troubleshooting.

what is the proper process of grain jar sterilization?
 
beluga

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So, in your lids, you wanna have a ~1/4" hole that has a filtering material - like polyfill, tyvek, micropore tape, or synthetic filter discs made from PTFE - over it. This prevents microbial transfer and allows gas exchange.

The process:
- load jars with prepped grain
- put lids on and loosen them a little bit
- cover in foil to prevent water from dripping through which could throw off your grain moisture
- fill PC with 3 quarts of water (per Presto 23 quart) and bring to a boil
- put your lid on without the rocker and wait until there is a steady stream of steam coming out of the valve.
- vent for 10 minutes.
- put your rocker on and bring to 15 PSI
- PC for 90 minutes to 120 minutes at 15 PSI.
(Pro tip: you can attach 2 US quarters to your rocket to bring it to 17-18PSI without releasing steam... this will make 90 minutes more effective.)
- let it come to atmospheric pressure on its own
- open, tighten the jar lids, and remove foil.
 
1diesel1

1diesel1

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I injected 30cc 190 proof grain alcohol into each contaminated grain jar to start the cleaning process.
 
1diesel1

1diesel1

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6627B0A4 A899 4BE3 8BCF 822F92F2EB8E
 
Dirtbag

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Something ive noticed in a couple vids is people putting the micropore tape on the holes, and then sealing the edges of the tape down with high heat silicone, to ensure it doesnt come unstuck and no contaminant can get in around the tape. Not sure if that will help but seeing this makes me want to try it. Just to play it safe..
 
beluga

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I'll try to find you a microscopic picture of the weave micropore and why I'm not personally a fan.
I also believe it breaks down after repeated use.
Not to say it's not effective, but I've gotten picky over the years.

My tier of filter materials:
Cotton > painter's tyvek > micropore tape > kite tyvek > cellulose SFD > polyfil > PTFE SFD
 
beluga

beluga

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Micropore tape under magnification:

40x
255259827 tp40x


100x:
255259867 tp100x


400x:
255259905 tp400x


There's also the comparison of a P. cubensis spore in relation to those gaps somewhere that I'm having trouble finding.
The gaps are quite larger than even those, let alone bacterial cells or mold spores that are quite a lot smaller than basidiomycete spores.

edit: Don't let this shy you away from using it if it's what you have! People have and still do use it plenty successfully.
 
beluga

beluga

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Gypsum..?
Looks a little heavy.. but I've only tried using it a few times - usually in soak/boil water.
 
1diesel1

1diesel1

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So, in your lids, you wanna have a ~1/4" hole that has a filtering material - like polyfill, tyvek, micropore tape, or synthetic filter discs made from PTFE - over it. This prevents microbial transfer and allows gas exchange.

The process:
- load jars with prepped grain
- put lids on and loosen them a little bit
- cover in foil to prevent water from dripping through which could throw off your grain moisture
- fill PC with 3 quarts of water (per Presto 23 quart) and bring to a boil
- put your lid on without the rocker and wait until there is a steady stream of steam coming out of the valve.
- vent for 10 minutes.
- put your rocker on and bring to 15 PSI
- PC for 90 minutes to 120 minutes at 15 PSI.
(Pro tip: you can attach 2 US quarters to your rocket to bring it to 17-18PSI without releasing steam... this will make 90 minutes more effective.)
- let it come to atmospheric pressure on its own
- open, tighten the jar lids, and remove foil.
Is the 12-24 hour soak required before sterilization?
Or can I sterilize after adding all ingredients?
 
Dirtbag

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Micropore tape under magnification:

40x
View attachment 1056250

100x:
View attachment 1056251

400x:
View attachment 1056252

There's also the comparison of a P. cubensis spore in relation to those gaps somewhere that I'm having trouble finding.
The gaps are quite larger than even those, let alone bacterial cells or mold spores that are quite a lot smaller than basidiomycete spores.

edit: Don't let this shy you away from using it if it's what you have! People have and still do use it plenty successfully.

Ive read to double it up. Makes sense to me seeing those pics.
 
beluga

beluga

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Is the 12-24 hour soak required before sterilization?
Or can I sterilize after adding all ingredients?
Missed this.
People do it various ways but what I've found the most effective (for rye) is soaking in tap hot water for about 4 hours in the PC with the lid sealed > boiling that until you see a couple burst grains > then drying very thoroughly > then do your PCing.

There used to be an idea going around that soaking germinates bacteria and spores to help expose them to sterilization, but that was debunked.
The real value is to not hydrate your grain too quickly which leads to lots of burst grain that make your grain a starchy mess.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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Missed this.
People do it various ways but what I've found the most effective (for rye) is soaking in tap hot water for about 4 hours in the PC with the lid sealed > boiling that until you see a couple burst grains > then drying very thoroughly > then do your PCing.

There used to be an idea going around that soaking germinates bacteria and spores to help expose them to sterilization, but that was debunked.
The real value is to not hydrate your grain too quickly which leads to lots of burst grain that make your grain a starchy mess.

Id also imagine that rinsing the living shit out of it after the soak would be benificial. There is naturally a lot of bacteria and fungi on grains. Once hydrated i plan to rinse mine until i get crystal clear water running off.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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@beluga have you used oats before? Thats what i have the easiest access too but i dont see many folks using it, and dont see any tutorial on prepping it. Would it be essentially the same as rye?

Im also looking into millet. Seems a bit fussier to work with but being small it would have a ton of innoculation points compared to a large grain. Way more surface area.
 
beluga

beluga

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@beluga have you used oats before? Thats what i have the easiest access too but i dont see many folks using it, and dont see any tutorial on prepping it. Would it be essentially the same as rye?

Im also looking into millet. Seems a bit fussier to work with but being small it would have a ton of innoculation points compared to a large grain. Way more surface area.
Oats are pretty common but people report bacterial issues. I think people think that maybe it's got such a tough hull that it's harder to properly sterilize, so I think that's just a matter of running a longer PC cycle. Never used it myself.

Millet is what I do now and I love it. You can do it well in a "no-prep" method - add the right amount of water and millet and PC. Tons of tiny inoculation points.
It is messy, but that's just a learning curve.
 

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