Mushroom thread

[tobh]

You're a bad influence. I was looking at bags of rye, thinking hmmm.... get rid of the PITA WBS is, AND be able to make my own damn rye chips with the leftovers? I'm telling on you to my ol lady. Expect a strongly worded message from her through me, sir.

 

[Aqua Man]

That's what I was gonna say, it's a pressurized SAB you've built. As @FourthCity said, a flow hood just allows for more freedom of movement. I dig what you built, for sure. I think it'll serve you quite well, despite not having a filter before intake and a filter at exhaust.

I do have... simple cut to fit I put over the fan intake.

 

[Aqua Man]

This makes sense. The air exiting the box will create a vortex, and there will be some back draw. However, I imagine with enough pressure, the vortex will be confined to the opening, likely within millimeters. Doing a smoke test would validate, though that's a bit excessive for such a simple build.

Tested with a flare and tissue... will do a vid tomorrow.

 

[tobh]

I do have... simple cut to fit I put over the fan intake.

In that case, I think it'll be pretty damn sterile. Plus, unlike a SAB that you risk blowing up by filling with aerosol fumes from lysol, then lighting an alcohol lamp to sterilize a needle, you avoid the whole "disinfect" stage. Turn the fan on, let it run for 5+ minutes, then do you thing.

 

[Aqua Man]

In that case, I think it'll be pretty damn sterile. Plus, unlike a SAB that you risk blowing up by filling with aerosol fumes from lysol, then lighting an alcohol lamp to sterilize a needle, you avoid the whole "disinfect" stage. Turn the fan on, let it run for 5+ minutes, then do you thing.

I turn on and disinfect then let run for 5-10.

 

[FourthCity]

Sab is not better than this... idk what to say... this is a still air box with positive pressure of hepa filtered air... it doesn't get much more sterile

That's what I was gonna say, it's a pressurized SAB you've built. As @FourthCity said, a flow hood just allows for more freedom of movement. I dig what you built, for sure. I think it'll serve you quite well, despite not having a filter before intake and a filter at exhaust.

Regardless of whether or not it will work, if you have air blowing through it then by definition it is not any kind of "still" air box.

Oh, I won't be using the ducting open. I've been hunting for something to use to mount the gloves I have for it to. I was looking for 4" bulkheads but I'm not about to spend $50+ a piece on pieces of threaded plastic. Ducting is crazy cheap and will do exactly what I need.

Sealing up the arm holes or using mounted gloves will cause more of a pressure disturbance when you move making the air less still. The still air box is not about keeping contams out of the box, its about keeping contams out of your work. Having the gloves mounted will also make it difficult to bring your tools in and out of the box to flame sterlize, something that needs to be done each time you inoculate a petri dish or do any kind of agar transfer.

This makes sense. The air exiting the box will create a vortex, and there will be some back draw. However, I imagine with enough pressure, the vortex will be confined to the opening, likely within millimeters. Doing a smoke test would validate, though that's a bit excessive for such a simple build.

Agreed, smoke test would be useful here

I mean I just don't get how you can think a SAB is more effective.

Gravity. Contams can't jump into your petri dishes or mason jars, something has to drop them in there. If you dont move anything unclean, whether it be your hands, tools, or unclean air over an open petri dish or mason jar then they can not get contaminated. Even if your room and your sab are not perfectly clean, as long as you use smooth motions, wear clean gloves, and use clean tools then you will not get more contams in an sab.

If any air re-enters through the bottom of your box you will risk contamination no matter how good your technique is or how clean your tools are. The reasons I have mentioned are why people spend more for a flow hood or stick with a sab rather than building something in-between like your have.

In that case, I think it'll be pretty damn sterile. Plus, unlike a SAB that you risk blowing up by filling with aerosol fumes from lysol, then lighting an alcohol lamp to sterilize a needle, you avoid the whole "disinfect" stage. Turn the fan on, let it run for 5+ minutes, then do you thing.

No need to use lysol in a sab, just a paper towel with some 70% iso on it is fine. This should be done to the work area every time its used no matter the setup. If you don't flame sterilize every time your tool comes in contact mycelium then you are contaminating your dishes with the myc of your previous dishes as well, something that is not ideal when trying to isolate or innoculate, especially if you are working with multiple different types of mushroom at the same time.

 

[Aqua Man]

Regardless of whether or not it will work, if you have air blowing through it then by definition it is not any kind of "still" air box.

Sealing up the arm holes or using mounted gloves will cause more of a pressure disturbance when you move making the air less still. The still air box is not about keeping contams out of the box, its about keeping contams out of your work. Having the gloves mounted will also make it difficult to bring your tools in and out of the box to flame sterlize, something that needs to be done each time you inoculate a petri dish or do any kind of agar transfer.

Agreed, smoke test would be useful here

Gravity. Contams can't jump into your petri dishes or mason jars, something has to drop them in there. If you dont move anything unclean, whether it be your hands, tools, or unclean air over an open petri dish or mason jar then they can not get contaminated. Even if your room and your sab are not perfectly clean, as long as you use smooth motions, wear clean gloves, and use clean tools then you will not get more contams in an sab.

If any air re-enters through the bottom of your box you will risk contamination no matter how good your technique is or how clean your tools are. The reasons I have mentioned are why people spend more for a flow hood or stick with a sab rather than building something in-between like your have.

No need to use lysol in a sab, just a paper towel with some 70% iso on it is fine. This should be done to the work area every time its used no matter the setup. If you don't flame sterilize every time your tool comes in contact mycelium then you are contaminating your dishes with the myc of your previous dishes as well, something that is not ideal when trying to isolate or innoculate, especially if you are working with multiple different types of mushroom at the same time.

So closing off the front and putting in 4" holes would eliminate this in your opinion? If there is an issue?

 

[tobh]

Sealing up the arm holes or using mounted gloves will cause more of a pressure disturbance when you move making the air less still. The still air box is not about keeping contams out of the box, its about keeping contams out of your work. Having the gloves mounted will also make it difficult to bring your tools in and out of the box to flame sterlize, something that needs to be done each time you inoculate a petri dish or do any kind of agar transfer.
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No need to use lysol in a sab, just a paper towel with some 70% iso on it is fine. This should be done to the work area every time its used no matter the setup. If you don't flame sterilize every time your tool comes in contact mycelium then you are contaminating your dishes with the myc of your previous dishes as well, something that is not ideal when trying to isolate or innoculate, especially if you are working with multiple different types of mushroom at the same time.

I'm not sure if I'm misreading your tone, but it feels a bit condescending. While you obviously know what you're talking about, this isn't my first rodeo either.

I don't bring tools in and out of my work area -- I've always put whatever I'm going to work with into the box, blast it with lysol, let it settle for 10+ minutes, then proceed with lighting an alcohol lamp in a SAB. My current project list is an upgrade from how I used to do it with a cardboard box and saran wrap.

Lysol itself isn't flammable, it's the aerosol vapors that are combustible. Gloves are an extra insurance that the SAB is completely sealed from outside air, allowing for more rapid movements within the box. Simple as that. A clear rubbermaid tote with a lid, couple holes with gloves sealed over those holes, and you've got about as still air as you're going to get.

It's fine to push people to spending $400+ on building a flow hood or buying one premade for $1k+, or they can go cheap and do a SAB or something like @Aqua Man which will suffice just fine. Hell, I've knocked up hundreds of jars just fine in open air. Flow hoods are valuable when doing agar work or g2g transfers simply for ease of movement. Anything less than "open" air transfers carry minimal risk of contamination unless the room that the work is being performed has a high spore count, in which case, you probably shouldn't be in that area either.

Further, if one wants to go full lab style, a clean room with an isolated decontam area is needed as well as a bio suit with a SCBA is a requirement. Just saying. Clandestine mycology is not rocket science.

 

[Aqua Man]

Just being trying look this up and see if I can improve it... maybe cicles would be better but then found this. So much for thinking outside the box... no pun intended.

Vertical Laminar Flow Workstation

Compact and portable ISO 5 airflow: Learn More -->

www.aircleansystems.com

Laminar Flow Hoods | Laminar Flow Cabinets

Cleatech manufactures class 100 laboratory and cleanroom Vertical Laminar Flow Hoods, Laminar Flow cabinets are available in horizontal or vertical airflow configurations. Workstations are also available in polypropylene & powder coated steel.

www.laboratory-supply.net

 

[FourthCity]

So closing off the front and putting in 4" holes would eliminate this in your opinion? If there is an issue?

I think the issue is that its not a sab or a flowhood, it tries to borrow from both but they both work on different principles.

Just being trying look this up and see if I can improve it... maybe cicles would be better but then found this. So much for thinking outside the box... no pun intended.

Vertical Laminar Flow Workstation

Compact and portable ISO 5 airflow: Learn More -->

www.aircleansystems.com

Laminar Flow Hoods | Laminar Flow Cabinets

Cleatech manufactures class 100 laboratory and cleanroom Vertical Laminar Flow Hoods, Laminar Flow cabinets are available in horizontal or vertical airflow configurations. Workstations are also available in polypropylene & powder coated steel.

www.laboratory-supply.net

These are all functional flowhoods but I feel like yours is missing key features such as a pre filter, properly sized post filter, and air flow that is calibrated to work with the volume of your box and its sash opening.

I'm not sure if I'm misreading your tone, but it feels a bit condescending. While you obviously know what you're talking about, this isn't my first rodeo either.

I don't bring tools in and out of my work area -- I've always put whatever I'm going to work with into the box, blast it with lysol, let it settle for 10+ minutes, then proceed with lighting an alcohol lamp in a SAB. My current project list is an upgrade from how I used to do it with a cardboard box and saran wrap.

Lysol itself isn't flammable, it's the aerosol vapors that are combustible. Gloves are an extra insurance that the SAB is completely sealed from outside air, allowing for more rapid movements within the box. Simple as that. A clear rubbermaid tote with a lid, couple holes with gloves sealed over those holes, and you've got about as still air as you're going to get.

It's fine to push people to spending $400+ on building a flow hood or buying one premade for $1k+, or they can go cheap and do a SAB or something like @Aqua Man which will suffice just fine. Hell, I've knocked up hundreds of jars just fine in open air. Flow hoods are valuable when doing agar work or g2g transfers simply for ease of movement. Anything less than "open" air transfers carry minimal risk of contamination unless the room that the work is being performed has a high spore count, in which case, you probably shouldn't be in that area either.

Further, if one wants to go full lab style, a clean room with an isolated decontam area is needed as well as a bio suit with a SCBA is a requirement. Just saying. Clandestine mycology is not rocket science.

Definitely misreading the tone, I wasnt trying to be condescending at all. I think I do get what you mean though, I am phrasing comments in a way that assumes some of the people reading them will need more info or context than the person I am responding to, please don't take it personally I just want anyone reading to be able to follow what I am saying.

Im not trying to push anyone into spending money on a flow hood at all either, I think a $10 sab does the job fine. I also wasn't suggesting not wearing gloves, just not attaching them to the sab. Having them detached will cause less disturbance to the air when you move then having them attached. I would also advise against using the flame inside the sab, not only does it take up precious space but the flame will cause air to be drawn in from the outside as it consumes the air inside.

I agree with this not being rocket science, and how open air inoculation can work but I think @Aqua Man's box is not going to work well for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not posting to try to be a jerk, I'm posting because it may save aqua and some other people reading this thread time and money if they want to try this hobby.

 

[Aqua Man]

I think the issue is that its not a sab or a flowhood, it tries to borrow from both but they both work on different principles.

These are all functional flowhoods but I feel like yours is missing key features such as a pre filter, properly sized post filter, and air flow that is calibrated to work with the volume of your box and its sash opening.

Definitely misreading the tone, I wasnt trying to be condescending at all. I think I do get what you mean though, I am phrasing comments in a way that assumes some of the people reading them will need more info or context than the person I am responding to, please don't take it personally I just want anyone reading to be able to follow what I am saying.

Im not trying to push anyone into spending money on a flow hood at all, I think a $10 sab does the job fine. I also wasn't suggesting not wearing gloves, just not attaching them to the sab. Having them detached will cause less disturbance to the air when you move then having them attached. I would also advise against using the flame inside the sab, not only does it take up precious space but the flame will cause air to be drawn in from the outside as it consumes the air inside.

I agree with this not being rocket science, and how open air inoculation can work but I think @Aqua Man's box is not going to work well for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not posting to try to be a jerk, I'm posting because it may save aqua and some other people reading this thread time and money if they want to try this hobby.

Yes I understand the calculations... I have a pre-filter but a pre-filter is only for reducing the workload and extending the life of the HEPA I'm not sure how a pre-filter make a shed of different other than that.

Look in the first link the filter is smaller... thus is why I built it taller so that the flow out of the filter can easily disperse... what post filter are you talking about its a hepa filter why would you need a post filter... im genuinely confused as to this logic

 

[tobh]

Definitely misreading the tone, I wasnt trying to be condescending at all. I think I do get what you mean though, I am phrasing comments in a way that assumes some of the people reading them will need more info or context than the person I am responding to, please don't take it personally I just want anyone reading to be able to follow what I am saying.

No harm, no foul. You make a very valid point of other, less experienced viewers reading through this thread and being able to pick up important details that are inherent knowledge to those of us that have been there, done that. All good man!

Im not trying to push anyone into spending money on a flow hood at all, I think a $10 sab does the job fine. I also wasn't suggesting not wearing gloves, just not attaching them to the sab. Having them detached will cause less disturbance to the air when you move then having them attached. I would also advise against using the flame inside the sab, not only does it take up precious space but the flame will cause air to be drawn in from the outside as it consumes the air inside.

While I understand the idea that yes, a flame requires oxygen to burn, I don't believe that a five minute process, especially with a small number of jars (12 or less pint jars), would exhaust all available air reserves to a point air gets drawn in. I'll have to do some of my own experimentation to confirm this; you very well may be right.

I agree with this not being rocket science, and how open air inoculation can work but I think @Aqua Man's box is not going to work well for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not posting to try to be a jerk, I'm posting because it may save aqua and some other people reading this thread time and money if they want to try this hobby.

Appreciate the clarification, and I apologize if I came across aggressively, or in a similar tone to which I perceived. You make valid points, and for sure -- this hobby can lead to a lot of frustration, wasted cash, and poor results without the right approach or inadequate equipment. You're approaching your posts from a good position, that which I took personally and was in the wrong place to do so.

 

[FourthCity]

Yes I understand the calculations... I have a pre-filter but a pre-filter is only for reducing the workload and extending the life of the HEPA I'm not sure how a pre-filter make a shed of different other than that.

Look in the first link the filter is smaller... thus is why I built it taller so that the flow out of the filter can easily disperse... what post filter are you talking about its a hepa filter why would you need a post filter... im genuinely confused as to this logic

The hepa is the post filter, I was referring to the filter before the blower as the pre filter and the one after the blower as the post filter. You are right about the pre filter extending the life of the post filter but even that is an understatement. Without a pre filter any larger bits of dirt or debris could get sucked in through blower and shot at high speed at the post filter, any little punctures will significantly reduce its effectiveness.

Appreciate the clarification, and I apologize if I came across aggressively, or in a similar tone to which I perceived. You make valid points, and for sure -- this hobby can lead to a lot of frustration, wasted cash, and poor results without the right approach or inadequate equipment. You're approaching your posts from a good position, that which I took personally and was in the wrong place to do so.

No worries, sometimes I am condescending even if I don't mean to be.

 

[Aqua Man]

The hepa is the post filter, I was referring to the filter before the blower as the pre filter and the one after the blower as the post filter. You are right about the pre filter extending the life of the post filter but even that is an understatement. Without a pre filter any larger bits of dirt or debris could get sucked in through blower and shot at high speed at the post filter, any little punctures will significantly reduce its effectiveness.


No worries, sometimes I am condescending even if I don't mean to be.

Hmmm I use a dryer vent hose but... im not sure how if I don't have pieces hurling at its not gonna work cause it dows have a pre-filter. I'll do a smoke test vid tomorrow.

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok video... and yes before someone asks that where I poop. That's right you are now scarred for life.

It doesn't seem to show as much flow as it feels like but I'm sure it's more than adequate. Wish I had some smoke sticks but I don't. Would probably show a lot better.

 

[1diesel1]

The cusp of success:)

 

[1diesel1]

Feels good to make it to this point, knowing that you’ve successfully avoided contamination and there’s microscopic spores forming to create a magical wonderland in a small box that you’ve created life in.
About as close as a man comes to giving birth himself, LMAO:)

 

[1diesel1]

Are you using heat mats? From my research they may slightly speed up colonization but at the cost of much greater risk of a competing fungal or bacterial infection. The heavily spikey aerial growth also may indicate there already is some kind of infection the myc is trying to escape and grow away from. I had some of that in my first couple boxes but they still gave a few clean flushes before triching out though.

On another note, here are some boxes and agar
6qt

66qt

Agar in the sab, no contams here!

Ya, heating mat set at 70f
I’ll pull it out from under and set it aside.
I just keep it in there to keep a solid 70 temp

 

[FourthCity]

Ya, heating mat set at 70f
I’ll pull it out from under and set it aside.
I just keep it in there to keep a solid 70 temp

In that case with it set to 70f I can't really imagine it causing any issues. I think its when you get in the high 70's and upwards there can be trouble but at 70f you aren't really heating the boxes, just keeping them from getting too cold. I have an oil heater in my room set to 70f too so I dont think that temp is a problem, I didnt know there were heat mats that could be set that low. Probably jumped the gun a little on you because I have seen some pretty crazy (not good) stuff come out of boxes on heat mats (while reading on another forum) but unlike you they had theirs cranked up and running pretty hot.

 

[Aqua Man]

The past couple posts you've done with pics are turning up with broken image links. Not sure if you're stripping exif data before upload or there's a problem with the uploader on the site that's isolated to the particular encoding your images use, but figured I'd bring it to your attention. Maybe @logic or @Aqua Man can comment on that.

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