Issues with topping vs not topping

[Ilike2grow]

For the past 2 grows I’ve done a experiment. Both grows I topped 2 and left 2 to grow normally. Each grow the un topped plants had a lot bigger harvests. I thought topping increases yield but it didn’t for me. I’m topping them correctly and they are coming out good. But why are my un topped plants giving me a bigger harvest? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

 

[growsince79]

For the past 2 grows I’ve done a experiment. Both grows I topped 2 and left 2 to grow normally. Each grow the un topped plants had a lot bigger harvests. I thought topping increases yield but it didn’t for me. I’m topping them correctly and they are coming out good. But why are my un topped plants giving me a bigger harvest? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

I think a lot depends on strain and how you grow them. How many times did you top? How long did you veg after the last topping?

 

[Ilike2grow]

I only topped them once. I vegged them for 8 weeks. You’d think the topped ones would have more.

 

[Aqua Man]

What do you mean by bigger harvest?

Bigger buds?

Total weight?

Total saleable size bud?

Imo topping doesn’t increase yield. It provides more even bud size and distribution leading to less popcorn waste and more mid size colas.

Topping in itself is an effective way to get better distribution of bud and make better use of a light source thats only from above to get better overall photosynthesis of the plant as a whole.

In cannabis nothing is as simple as saying topping increases yield… and while it may in some cases that doesn’t mean it will.

This is a frustration i see daily. People have been led to believe if you do this then that happens and if you do that then this happens.

In cannabis the answer is almost always it depends and people need to back off with the claims.

More light will give you bigger buds….ONLY if your capable for providing the extra demands that that creates.

We have to stop this all or none thought process, definitive answers for one variable and start thinking in terms of multiple variables.

When you have an equation that requires 50 inputs to give answer and you have 1 input dont have a chance of getting the right answer.

Tldr: is topping beneficial? Yes it can be for the right reasons and sometimes that will mean an increase in yields

Is topping beneficial in every situation? Absolutely not…. And sometimes it may hurt yields

This is not directed at anyone but rather everyone to stop and think about how complex these plants are.

There is very few if an easy answers when growing these plants.

I want to see everyone succeed and thats why the long winded post.

If someone tells you something question the why, how, and when it works before you believe it.

We are becoming all about the instant gratification and answers these days

@Ilike2grow im sorry your impression didn’t work out and if you like i can try to get help you understand some of the intricacies involved in topping if you like

 

[sambapati]

What do you mean by bigger harvest?

Bigger buds?

Total weight?

Total saleable size bud?

Imo topping doesn’t increase yield. It provides more even bud size and distribution leading to less popcorn waste and more mid size colas.

Topping in itself is an effective way to get better distribution of bud and make better use of a light source thats only from above to get better overall photosynthesis of the plant as a whole.

In cannabis nothing is as simple as saying topping increases yield… and while it may in some cases that doesn’t mean it will.

This is a frustration i see daily. People have been led to believe if you do this then that happens and if you do that then this happens.

In cannabis the answer is almost always it depends and people need to back off with the claims.

More light will give you bigger buds….ONLY if your capable for providing the extra demands that that creates.

We have to stop this all or none thought process, definitive answers for one variable and start thinking in terms of multiple variables.

When you have an equation that requires 50 inputs to give answer and you have 1 input dont have a chance of getting the right answer.

Tldr: is topping beneficial? Yes it can be for the right reasons and sometimes that will mean an increase in yields

Is topping beneficial in every situation? Absolutely not…. And sometimes it may hurt yields

This is not directed at anyone but rather everyone to stop and think about how complex these plants are.

There is very few if an easy answers when growing these plants.

I want to see everyone succeed and thats why the long winded post.

If someone tells you something question the why, how, and when it works before you believe it.

We are becoming all about the instant gratification and answers these days

@Ilike2grow im sorry your impression didn’t work out and if you like i can try to get help you understand some of the intricacies involved in topping if you like

Superb post @aquqman ....everyone wants an answer....but the one they want and don't give people an answer they don't want. Good thing there are no absolutes in weed growing or life. I believe @Moshmen, @1diesel1, and you do everything you possibly can to help people. I say bless you and thank you from the bottom of my heart. My world would be so much more isolated and lonely without the farmers on this site.

 

[growsince79]

I only topped them once. I vegged them for 8 weeks. You’d think the topped ones would have more.

How late was the last topping? It's about strain and structure, density ans size. Indoor indicas might not need to be topped, whereas some sativas have to be topped or bent or both.

 

[Aqua Man]

Superb post @aquqman ....everyone wants an answer....but the one they want and don't give people an answer they don't want. Good thing there are no absolutes in weed growing or life. I believe @Moshmen, @1diesel1, and you do everything you possibly can to help people. I say bless you and thank you from the bottom of my heart. My world would be so much more isolated and lonely without the farmers on this site.

This community is awesome and I wouldn’t know half of what i have learned without them all.

Sometimes the best advice is the cold hard truth… i know this because i was no different when i started and i learned many things the hard way… then ureaka i finally understood once i started to educate myself on how the plants, biology, chemistry, environment all played an intertwined role with many other factors like genetics etc.

So i get it… but if i can help others understand that too then we all improve our knowledge and skills

 

[DanC520]

“In cannabis the answer is almost always it depends...”

Swap cannabis for life lol. I know a few different disciplines where “it depends” is the prevailing answer to any question.

 

[sambapati]

“In cannabis the answer is almost always it depends...”

Swap cannabis for life lol. I know a few different disciplines where “it depends” is the prevailing answer to any question.

You mean what kind of underwear do old people wear -- that depends..

 

[BigBlonde]

I wonder if topping plants makes them grow slower. My thinking is that topped plants have to put more resources into healing and growing. So, hypothetically, there would be an inverse relationship between number of tops and rate of growth. In a test that keeps everything else equal, (such as the size of the pot, the light levels, the time to harvest, etc.), the topped plants would be at a disadvantage. Alternatively, if other growth factors were adjusted proportionately with the number of tops, then there should be at least equivalent yield for the topped plants.

 

[Justlovetogrow]

Lst and keeping the canopy reasonably even will do the same thing produce pretty even size buds without the added stress of the topping I’ve always found my plants get to bunched up if I top them indoor plants anyway

 

[sambapati]

Lst and keeping the canopy reasonably even will do the same thing produce pretty even size buds without the added stress of the topping I’ve always found my plants get to bunched up if I top them indoor plants anyway

On my current grow I topped the plants 4 times and kept them in veg for 3 months (all planned ahead) and did LST, pruning fan leaves and watering really slowly. This grow I got a CO2 bag for flower and I think the plants this grow have more 'frosting' -- same strain Exotic Genetics O-Face that I grew last time. 1st time user of Terp Tea in both late veg and flower; so many variables it is impossible to figure out which witch is which.

 

[Saul.Goodman]

I mean, think of any other fruiting or flowering plant. Take Serano Chili Peppers for example (not an apple to apple comparison but still a good example). I always top these plants to increase my overall yield as it promotes more top growth increasing the flower sites for peppers to grow.

The peppers don't get larger in size because I topped the plant. Actually the plant will use more resources because of the increase in flowers and fruit production. If the conditions are not on par for various reasons my peppers production/size will be below standard. If the seasonal conditions are perfect I'll end up with nice sized peppers in mass.

Weed is the same, if you top, provide LST...etc but don't have optimal conditions to support all those extra buds and growth you can bet your plant will show it in the fruit/flower production.

 

[mysticepipedon]

You'll notice a difference in yield if your untopped, giant cola gets bud rot, or if you properly orient growing points to receive maximum light. But if you top and end up with lots of small branches, without pruning them, you can end up with a lot of larf.

But when growing, you should consider your yield per growing area. If you don't top, you may be able to fit more plants in a given area. If you are limited in plant number, topping and training, to get full use of the area with fewer plants, is important.

In summary: It depends!

 

[SchwiftyGrower]

Great information so far on this forum! I used to top and LST when I grew sativas indoors, and that wasn’t for yield purposes, but for keeping a manageable size.

Outdoors, I do not top, I only LST, and I did a staircase LST on my mango haze.

But every situation is different, and so yeah it depends lol

Wish y’all the best!

 

[sambapati]

I mean, think of any other fruiting or flowering plant. Take Serrano Chili Peppers for example (not an apple to apple comparison but still a good example). I always top these plants to increase my overall yield as it promotes more top growth increasing the flower sites for peppers to grow.

The peppers don't get larger in size because I topped the plant. Actually the plant will use more resources because of the increase in flowers and fruit production. If the conditions are not on par for various reasons my peppers production/size will be below standard. If the seasonal conditions are perfect I'll end up with nice sized peppers in mass.

Weed is the same, if you top, provide LST...etc but don't have optimal conditions to support all those extra buds and growth you can bet your plant will show it in the fruit/flower production.

providing the optimal conditions to support all those extra buds....separates good from great results. True 'nuf.

 

[Madmax]

I dont think topping decreases yield that much..im going to find out shortly if i dont get 2p from this harvest.it is going to b very very close, same strain so i can compare.topping just changes main stem dominance and send signals to the laterals and will form a more even canopy.and yes it bumps up the yield from those branches there are reasons you do it but it not done for yield.better control of your plants height and shape and b more compact for its particular enviroment..more managable with stronger branching.i will report back on weight

 

[PipeCarver]

I'm a topping nut, I can't help myself, I top multiple times on most plants. The only plants I haven't topped are auto's. When I started indoors I had to top all my plants to stay under my light. I only had 5ft, floor to my 1000w hps hung vertically with an umbrella reflector.. I had trouble with Sativa's obviously but not with Indica's. I grew a Sweet Tooth I must have topped 50 times but it was a fail, I had big plans but it didn't really work out very well. Topping though helps me get clones off my plants. once topped the lower shoots start to jump up earlier

For the past 2 grows I’ve done a experiment. Both grows I topped 2 and left 2 to grow normally. Each grow the un topped plants had a lot bigger harvests. I thought topping increases yield but it didn’t for me. I’m topping them correctly and they are coming out good. But why are my un topped plants giving me a bigger harvest? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

 

[Aqua Man]

There are many reasons to top.

1. Your growing a strain indoor or out door that producing large colas and you have to battle higher humidity or rain to resuce chances of bud rot.

2. To provide a more even canopy to maximize the light you can provide indoors. As you can run it closer without burning the main colas.

3. Some genetics like to be topped and you may increase yields. Others hate it and may decrease yield. Do your research on the strains you grow.

4. Topping is a great option for mother plants to produce clones.

5. To manipulate the structure of the plant.

There are many more but used in combination with proper defoliation and genetics that respond well you can increase yield and lower the risks of bud rot as @mysticepipedon stated which is a huge reason for many. I have a buddy in Michigan that grows outdoors and it’s absolutely necessary to top with some genetics or its certain to be tossing out a significant anount of bud due to bud rot.

 

[Madmax]

Well said ...soo many variables hey.the list is long if you get right into it..i think i was droppped lots when i was a baby..drop kicked too haha...im a little like forrest..forrest gump...