HELP! Plants wilting and yellowing!

[Aqua Man]

H20 man, this gauge works really well, and buckwheat groat water worked to help retain moisture....

Yep but that gets expensive with 240 plants

 

[KeytheCaregiver]

Let wm dry until they wilt…. Im betting like 3-5 days between watering

Ince they get healthy they will drink more but go by lifting the pots. Again if you even wonder then its to soon…. You will absolutely know and be shocked how light they are in comparison

Yeah, they are drying up today, some have begun to wilt but with the Fungus Gnats being how they are we are letting them dry out until this afternoon and then hopefully give them some much needed water. I'm talking to the head grower about getting them some of the transition mix next feeding. He doesn't see the point in turning the lights down this late in flower though.

 

[KeytheCaregiver]

H20 man, this gauge works really well, and buckwheat groat water worked to help retain moisture....

I'd love to buy a bunch of gauges, but I feel comfortable telling when the soil is drying out fast/slow. I might've over-watered, but I can read my plants most of the time

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah, they are drying up today, some have begun to wilt but with the Fungus Gnats being how they are we are letting them dry out until this afternoon and then hopefully give them some much needed water. I'm talking to the head grower about getting them some of the transition mix next feeding. He doesn't see the point in turning the lights down this late in flower though.

Because they are stressed and having issues… the higher light will only make things worse faster and the plants are not able to use that much in this health anyways.

It makes 0 sense to keep pushing plants hard that are not healthy and will slow down the recovery.

It can be increased again once they recover.

Id also remove all of the damaged leaves

If he doesn’t see that you may want to question the experience he has to be a head grower.

 

[Aqua Man]

This is a clone recovering from bone dry media just to show how fast they recover.

Video of clone recovering from underwatering

Ok in one thread I posted I was going to do a video of how fast plants recover from underwatering. In hopes that new growers see how easy it is for a plant to recover from underwatering when compared to over watering. I have some toss away clones sitting about and wanted to show how fast they...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[KeytheCaregiver]

UPDATE: Today is the beginning of their 3rd day without water in attempts to dry the rootzone out, and the bottom inch or two which seems to be saturated and possibly rotten from Fungus Gnats/root rot. We are at the beginning of Week 6, room temp 80-82 F, RH 50%.

 

[Aqua Man]

UPDATE: Today is the beginning of their 3rd day without water in attempts to dry the rootzone out, and the bottom inch or two which seems to be saturated and possibly rotten from Fungus Gnats/root rot. We are at the beginning of Week 6, room temp 80-82 F, RH 50%.

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Get em some transition nutrients and id go feed feed water. Drop temps to around 75-77f and last week about 70f to pull out that color expression. Last week you can feed light but the next 2 feeds atlease 1.0EC and more like 1.8EC . The last week like 0.6-0.8

Lower the light and heat will help maintain and preserve terps, flavonoids and cannabinoids. RH around 50-55% to the end.

 

[Aqua Man]

They still look fine on watering to me.

Id let em dry back longer

 

[KeytheCaregiver]

They still look fine on watering to me.

Id let em dry back longer

Yeah might let them go until tomorrow, or until a majority starts wilting due to lack of water. Any wilting plants in these pictures above are the overwatered plants.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah might let them go until tomorrow, or until a majority starts wilting due to lack of water. Any wilting plants in these pictures above are the overwatered plants.

Yeah i think thats the right call

 

[KeytheCaregiver]

Yeah i think thats the right call

As far as the transition food mix goes (nitrogen deficiency theory), our bloom food has plenty of Nitrogen in it.

Here is the spec sheet on the nutrients we use.

Here is the feeding schedule they recommend.

Lotus BLOOM Nutrient Analaysis

Lotus GROW Nutrient Analaysis

Lotus Nutrients Wins Best Cannabis Nutrients Award From High Times

Indoor-cultivation focused Grow Strong Industries' nutrient brand is engineered to trigger the rapid onset of flowering, producing dense, massive yields.

globalcannabistimes.com

 

[Aqua Man]

As far as the transition food mix goes (nitrogen deficiency theory), our bloom food has plenty of Nitrogen in it.

Here is the spec sheet on the nutrients we use.

Here is the feeding schedule they recommend.

Lotus BLOOM Nutrient Analaysis

View attachment 1273531


Lotus GROW Nutrient Analaysis

View attachment 1273534

Lotus Nutrients Wins Best Cannabis Nutrients Award From High Times

Indoor-cultivation focused Grow Strong Industries' nutrient brand is engineered to trigger the rapid onset of flowering, producing dense, massive yields.

globalcannabistimes.com

Its a 5-10-14 ratio. At the EC you are feeding there is not enough nitrogen. Its not just the ratio but the concentration

 

[Madbud]

My free advice, pull one of those out of the bucket and see how wet the root ball is, especially the bottom. It will likely be very damp still. Set it on paper towels to dry more.

 

[Aqua Man]

Idk what to say… if it had enough nitrogen it wouldn’t be showing nitrogen issues… yes part of it is the watering but with the amount of flushing they need more available nutrients. When you drop to a low N ratio like you have you need to run a much higher ppm to keep nitrogen levels adequate.

Thats why im saying to run a higher nitrogen ratio and giving an EC to coincide.

All i can do is give recommendations and if you choose not to take them then that understable as its your grow.

But at the same time if you choose not to follow them completely you cant say that the advice didn’t work either.

 

[Aqua Man]

In all honesty your not going to make a lot of difference in this grow but you can make some. Its more advice to correct your issues for next grow

 

[strider26554]

And consider getting those plastic pots up off of the trays by an inch or two to get air circulation underneath also. And don’t be afraid to drill a few more drain holes in the bottom. Then you might have a chance of getting some decent Drainage. Just my two cents.

I grow almost exclusively in plastic five and seven gal buckets, I predrill them not just on the bottom but up the sides as well and around the rim just below the support rings the handle is attached to. Ive learned over the years that you want almost as much open to the dirt area as enclosed area. ( think colander) while it does mean you may have to water more frequently and will have to almost line the inside with either mesh or screen to keep the fines of your soil from washing out, it drastically increases oxygen to the roots, when im doing my flush i can literally put the water where i want it . i dont think roots like plastic, it causes a myriad of problems if you neglect to provide the proper drainage., Also, i greatly encourage all to transplant at the first sign of root problems, doesnt matter if itts a full grown plant, transplanting allows you to address the problems that you can actually SEE. no guess work.

 

[MacroLogos]

Its a 5-10-14 ratio. At the EC you are feeding there is not enough nitrogen. Its not just the ratio but the concentration

So it appears the N deficiency in this case was not due to nutrient lockup, but absence of N.

This leads to excess nutrients (excess amounts of everything but N) in the medium due to feeding too much of mix lacking enough N trying to cure the N deficiency.

Is this the jist of cause & effect in this case?

 

[strider26554]

Im wondering, just for shits and giggles, what the temp of the concrete is that those pails are residing upon? concrete inside of a building acts as a heat sink or as a coldplate depending on what is going on within the building. and those tiny ass slits in the bottoms of those pails do not seem adequate to me, jmho.

 

[Aqua Man]

So it appears the N deficiency in this case was not due to nutrient lockup, but absence of N.

This leads to excess nutrients (excess amounts of everything but N) in the medium due to feeding too much of mix lacking enough N trying to cure the N deficiency.

Is this the jist of cause & effect in this case?

There were several contributing factors and over correction. A flush once was needed. But there was excessive flushing.

The transition to bloom nutrients and the concentration used was not adequate.

A lockout can occur from an imbalance in the media so the one flush was needed to ensure that would be corrected.

Im wondering, just for shits and giggles, what the temp of the concrete is that those pails are residing upon? concrete inside of a building acts as a heat sink or as a coldplate depending on what is going on within the building. and those tiny ass slits in the bottoms of those pails do not seem adequate to me, jmho.

Yeah very good points, this was not a single issue but a collection of contributing factors. Much could have been and should be improved.

 

[KeytheCaregiver]

My free advice, pull one of those out of the bucket and see how wet the root ball is, especially the bottom. It will likely be very damp still. Set it on paper towels to dry more.

I don't have time to pull 240 plants out of their pots and dry on paper towels unfortunately.

Idk what to say… if it had enough nitrogen it wouldn’t be showing nitrogen issues… yes part of it is the watering but with the amount of flushing they need more available nutrients. When you drop to a low N ratio like you have you need to run a much higher ppm to keep nitrogen levels adequate.

Thats why im saying to run a higher nitrogen ratio and giving an EC to coincide.

All i can do is give recommendations and if you choose not to take them then that understable as its your grow.

But at the same time if you choose not to follow them completely you cant say that the advice didn’t work either.

I'm the assistant on this grow so all I can do is relay the advice and hope for the best.

To address your points,

We have turned the lights down from 115% to 100% and decided to let the plants dry out another day so we'll keep checking in to ensure they aren't wilting yet but I think they'll go another day without water.

As far as the Nitrogen deficiency, I relayed the advice you've given but the grower is saying there is plenty in the Bloom food, so I will reinforce your point with the concentration being different to see if his opinion changes.

In all honesty your not going to make a lot of difference in this grow but you can make some. Its more advice to correct your issues for next grow

This is my thought process as to why our grower doesn't see much potential in changing too many factors at this point, being week 6, the damage is done, and we can only hope for the best and keep them drinking/healthy.

I grow almost exclusively in plastic five and seven gal buckets, I predrill them not just on the bottom but up the sides as well and around the rim just below the support rings the handle is attached to. Ive learned over the years that you want almost as much open to the dirt area as enclosed area. ( think colander) while it does mean you may have to water more frequently and will have to almost line the inside with either mesh or screen to keep the fines of your soil from washing out, it drastically increases oxygen to the roots, when im doing my flush i can literally put the water where i want it . i dont think roots like plastic, it causes a myriad of problems if you neglect to provide the proper drainage., Also, i greatly encourage all to transplant at the first sign of root problems, doesnt matter if itts a full grown plant, transplanting allows you to address the problems that you can actually SEE. no guess work.

I agree wholeheartedly in this, first sign of root rot, transplant to a bigger pot with fresh soil. I plan on drilling more holes in our pots from now on, we used to do this when we ran with the plastic bag type pots, not sure why we neglected to do it this season.

All great points, thank you!

So it appears the N deficiency in this case was not due to nutrient lockup, but absence of N.

This leads to excess nutrients (excess amounts of everything but N) in the medium due to feeding too much of mix lacking enough N trying to cure the N deficiency.

Is this the jist of cause & effect in this case?

Quick run down for ya
1st issue: Plants are transitioned to flower and are burned due to lights being 115% first 48 hours.
2nd issue: Fungus Gnats causing root rot/signs of over watering due to bottom of pot being rotten/wet.
3rd issue: Plants show signs of over-watering from flushing due to root drenches for gnats and high EC/low pH runoff.
4th issue: Possible Nitrogen deficiency
5th issue: Powdery Mildew spotted, sprayed Plant Therapy 3 days straight, still some PM showing on the tops of our bigger plants, still spraying accordingly.

Im wondering, just for shits and giggles, what the temp of the concrete is that those pails are residing upon? concrete inside of a building acts as a heat sink or as a coldplate depending on what is going on within the building. and those tiny ass slits in the bottoms of those pails do not seem adequate to me, jmho.

The concrete floor stays about the same temperature as the room, 76-80 degrees F.


Again, thank everyone for all the help, I hope I don't come off the wrong way. I am here to learn, listen, and I appreciate you all for being here to help me grow as a cultivator.