Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

[Moe.Red]

I knew this was coming. +1 to the Raging Kush II.

Not in this tent, those lights are in the fog tent.

I'll use external add on led bars for this. And push spectrum as far red as my lights will allow. I'll plan to top them multiple times and spread them out with a net. If they stretch thru the net and form colas there, that's a win. I'll probably do 16 tops on each plant. Something like this

But spread to take up 3x3 of the 4x4 space.

 

[smokedareefer]

I still plan to try gmo at some point too. Logic told me it’s the kind of plant you really want to grow. Once.

You'll want to control the streach there as well. Grew a gmo X clementine cross in my defoliation trial thread and was by far the most streach ive grown.

 

[Moe.Red]

You'll want to control the streach there as well. Grew a gmo X clementine cross in my defoliation trial thread and was by far the most streach ive grown.

yeah good call, when I grow the gmo I'll hit you guys up for advice. I know Mosh loves it even if it is a PITA to grow, so I just want to try my hand at some point. What's life without little challenges?

Left this AM without the agar, but at least I remembered my lunch. I'll get them out to you tomorrow.

 

[Moe.Red]

Todays updates. Nothing to do with fog but I have several projects going, so yeah. This is as good a place as any to document.

Finally seeing something on great white. Orca kicking ass.

The real sour doubling roots daily but stuff up top is not too happy.

She's got me a little worried.



And this is for @smokedareefer part one of testing the ability to use Potassium Silicate as a PH Up alternative in an automatic dosing system. Will it fall out of suspension over night?

Added 10 grams of Potassium Silicate (K2O3Si) to 1000mL of RO water:

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

Moe, what would be interesting to pre-pollute these agar-dishes with your household generic bacteria, like with dust from floor or MO from your hands (things that may get in touch with the plants or equipment) and then once visibly set in motion to use these MO grower products to see if they are able to thwart off the spread of the infection. Because they should be able to do so, at least, the way I'm thinking is that typically bacteria are already almost everywhere. And then you have an expensive growproduct with not-that-much spores containing, so that leaves the question open if that lifeform is actually efficiently able to compete vs what's already there.

 

[Moe.Red]

Moe, what would be interesting to pre-pollute these agar-dishes with your household generic bacteria, like with dust from floor or MO from your hands (things that may get in touch with the plants or equipment) and then once visibly set in motion to use these MO grower products to see if they are able to thwart off the spread of the infection. Because they should be able to do so, at least, the way I'm thinking is that typically bacteria are already almost everywhere. And then you have an expensive growproduct with not-that-much spores containing, so that leaves the question open if that lifeform is actually efficiently able to compete vs what's already there.

Welcome back.

That would be interesting. The issue will be identifying what’s what.

Maybe contaminate one side and once a good colony is there add the bottle to the other side and watch what happens in the middle.

Most of the bacillus strains are gram positive so if the contaminate was negative that would make it easier to see who wins the war.

Could also do this in an aqueous dextrose solution better simulating our grows

 

[Aqua Man]

What's your read on this one?

Bit to much wind maybe low humidity or a recent change in humidity I dont think its nutes

 

[Aqua Man]

Moe, what would be interesting to pre-pollute these agar-dishes with your household generic bacteria, like with dust from floor or MO from your hands (things that may get in touch with the plants or equipment) and then once visibly set in motion to use these MO grower products to see if they are able to thwart off the spread of the infection. Because they should be able to do so, at least, the way I'm thinking is that typically bacteria are already almost everywhere. And then you have an expensive growproduct with not-that-much spores containing, so that leaves the question open if that lifeform is actually efficiently able to compete vs what's already there.

Yea welcome back sir was wondering where ya went

 

[Moe.Red]

Bit to much wind maybe low humidity or a recent change in humidity I dont think its nutes

I can cut down on wind.

Rh is pretty stable you can see the spike down yesterday when I got in the tent for pics

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

Welcome back.

That would be interesting. The issue will be identifying what’s what.

Maybe contaminate one side and once a good colony is there add the bottle to the other side and watch what happens in the middle.

Most of the bacillus strains are gram positive so if the contaminate was negative that would make it easier to see who wins the war.

Could also do this in an aqueous dextrose solution better simulating our grows

Thanks Moe.
Yes, exactly. So you have place, and also time, that would separate the pollutants from the growproduct. And a repeat, to see if said colonies look alike. It's interesting to see how the Great White colonies look so different from the Orca product. And thank you for doing these tests to begin with.

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

Yea welcome back sir was wondering where ya went

Hey Aqua ty. Well, sometimes I just do a radical cut away from anything online/virtual, in a strong hour. So now I'm back with sports (weightlifting - was actually deep into bodyshaping, then came flu, and all the clubs went closed) and I discovered a new hobby now for me - cooking (!) yes haha. That was a good choice which I feel really well bodily and mentally. One can be so creative with cooking, it doesn't always have a "good end" in the way of being ultra-delicious, but I'm an old-army type dude that eats what is served (if it's not poisonous) but right now I don't need recipes anymore, I just use my taste and number of spices to create the taste that I like (I like sharpiness of chilli or much raw pepper longcooked for example).

 

[Moe.Red]

Thanks Moe.
Yes, exactly. So you have place, and also time, that would separate the pollutants from the growproduct. And a repeat, to see if said colonies look alike. It's interesting to see how the Great White colonies look so different from the Orca product. And thank you for doing these tests to begin with.

I’m glad I’m not the only geek around that appreciates dumb stuff like this.

This is the first in a series of tests. I also have smokedareefer getting a root sample in agar for this because he grows RDWC successfully for a decade and adds nothing. No h2o2 no bennies. So what’s in his res?

When all is learned that I can I’ll have a lot of this stuff to share if you want I’ll send you some.

 

[mysticepipedon]

Not in this tent, those lights are in the fog tent.

I'll use external add on led bars for this. And push spectrum as far red as my lights will allow. I'll plan to top them multiple times and spread them out with a net. If they stretch thru the net and form colas there, that's a win. I'll probably do 16 tops on each plant. Something like this

View attachment 1325752

But spread to take up 3x3 of the 4x4 space.

Whoa. Ease up on the defoliation.

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

So what’s in his res?

My bet would be that there's also MO there, now I'm no expert on these matters but I do recall a number of studies and reviews, also on sterile hydro setups, that wrote something that plant roots release quite a number of secretes/excretes which actually atttract, and nurture, tendencially positive bacteria or fungus, for plant grow. It's really hard to see how one could have such a large lifeform like a plant that releases so much energy, plus all the dead tissue/cells which break away, and not have micros feeding off that. Even in "sterile" rez, there's bacteria known that are tolerant of H2O2, extremophiles that can actually feed off stuff that would kill others etc. So these supressants are never fail-proof that's where the counter MO thingy is promising. In theory, or studies, at least.

Same thing with the whole plant above the surface. A huge benefit would actually be to spread MO onto fruits, or say, "the endprodcut" to prevent botrytis and such. It has become such a huge problem over here, with some of these toxins being ultra-carcinogenic.

 

[Moe.Red]

My bet would be that there's also MO there, now I'm no expert on these matters but I do recall a number of studies and reviews, also on sterile hydro setups, that wrote something that plant roots release quite a number of secretes/excretes which actually atttract, and nurture, tendencially positive bacteria or fungus, for plant grow. It's really hard to see how one could have such a large lifeform like a plant that releases so much energy, plus all the dead tissue/cells which break away, and not have micros feeding off that. Even in "sterile" rez, there's bacteria known that are tolerant of H2O2, extremophiles that can actually feed off stuff that would kill others etc. So these supressants are never fail-proof that's where the counter MO thingy is promising. In theory, or studies, at least.

Same thing with the whole plant above the surface. A huge benefit would actually be to spread MO onto fruits, or say, "the endprodcut" to prevent botrytis and such. It has become such a huge problem over here, with some of these toxins being ultra-carcinogenic.

The plant spends as much as 12% of its sugars as exudates to feed biologics. If there was not a benefit Mother Nature would have evolved out of wasting energy a long time ago.

But folks still get pythium and other bad juju. I haven’t looked into this but my assumption was the sugar exudates call in bad bacteria too.

 

[Dirtbag]

The plant spends as much as 12% of its sugars as exudates to feed biologics. If there was not a benefit Mother Nature would have evolved out of wasting energy a long time ago.

But folks still get pythium and other bad juju. I haven’t looked into this but my assumption was the sugar exudates call in bad bacteria too.

In Nature the Plant releases those exudates primarily because nutrient cycling microorganisms need that fuel to convert nutrients into bioavailable forms the plants can uptake and use.
In a hydroponic environment, those exudates don't have the same list of benefits, though they can still attract and nurture some root protectant fungi and bacteria. But as you point out, it also calls over the bad bacteria and fungus too.

 

[Moe.Red]

In Nature the Plant releases those exudates primarily because nutrient cycling microorganisms need that fuel to convert nutrients into bioavailable forms the plants can uptake and use.
In a hydroponic environment, those exudates don't have the same list of benefits, though they can still attract and nurture some root protectant fungi and bacteria. But as you point out, it also calls over the bad bacteria and fungus too.

Dude I love having you around. You come at it from the other direction, lay down some knowledge, and always make me think. Easy to get tunnel vision, you are like the Anti-Elon tunnel buster.

Here's what I think I know.

Fungi that grows on roots is effective in both hydro and soil to increase root surface. (there is a bit more to it than that obviously)
Bacteria that grows in soil is responsible for making nutrients in a form the plant can use. They do many other things as well.
Plants feed bacteria in a symbiotic relationship, evolved in dirt.
We do not need bacteria to ionize nutes in hydro if we use chelated synthetics.
Good bacteria colonies out-compete bad bacteria and fungus to hopefully prevent root rot.

Are you thinking all this beneficial bacteria stuff is only good for preventing root rot in hydro? All the other perceived benefits like stinkier weed is just placebo? If the only benefit is to prevent rot, H2O2 works identically?

 

[steamroller]

What about other bacteria like those found in living aqueous environments like Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrobacter, Nitrospina, Nitrospira and Nitrococcus?
Would they offer any benefits?

 

[Aqua Man]

What about other bacteria like those found in living aqueous environments like Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrobacter, Nitrospina, Nitrospira and Nitrococcus?
Would they offer any benefits?

They are also abundant in the air

 

[Moe.Red]

Tonight's updates. I'm putting the worst first, good news further down.

The real sour continues to add root mass, although I don't think it is doubling daily now. More like 80%. Those roots are more than enough to support the leaf mass, I just need this plant to turn on. It's just plain being a finnicky lil bitch. Take a look at this:


I'm about ready to start researching viruses. Here's Sour Diesel:

At least she is becoming more typical, even if the variegation adds to the oddity. This plant is respiring and becoming healthy. Incidentally it was closest to the humidifier fan (now off).

Her root mass is still doubling daily. She has caught up to and overtaken the other.

Hey, those twist locks were nearly perfect, just made one adjustment for fog. So that tent gets put back together and turned on this weekend.

Going on the too much wind theory, I shut off the AC infinity canopy fan Yesterday. It wasn't hitting the plant much at all, if it was enough to cause a wind burn, it just needs to be better genetics. I'm not even pushing yet. Everything but AC and humidifier as of this report has also been turned off.

All fans were on the lowest settings barely keeping the air filtered and moving. I am not exhausting. Still no CO2 nesessary in a sealed room, so virtually no photosynthesis.

I just need these girls to turn on. I know this seem impatient, but normally my growth is much faster.

I have adjusted my spectrum as far red as it will go in this tent. I've just got different temp COB LEDs with dimmer knobs. I also turned on the "bloom enhancer" leds. These lights are kinda dated now. But they sure have put out a ton of nice weed.

400PPFD of red shifted light at 40" away. If I turn off bloom enhancer I'm at the light's minimum. I've never run my lights this low this long before, so I'm adding these colored bloom leds in, even tho it raises PPFD, I just want to see if I can trigger something good with spectrum. I'm really running out of knobs to try here.

I got seeds ready to get wet if these don't take a turn to the better. Or maybe I'll hit Mosh up for those GMO clones. Next up Microbes!