Micronized Sulfur vs Neem Oil (outdoor; broad mites)

[deadbeet]

Hey, folks.

My outdoor grow here in the (very) Upper Midwest is in ruff shape. I've posted a couple times, done some troubleshooting on my own, and have concluded that I may have (among other things) a broad mite infestation. It's a first for me as someone who's grown here, outdoors, for 13+ years.

I've been spraying primarily Azamax & Essentria IC3 the last couple weeks, occasionally throwing Spinosad into the mix. The infestation is bad enough that it's hard to tell if I'm making a dent.

My question(s) at the moment pertain to sulfur and/or neem oil. I ordered some of each and they'll likely arrive by the end of this week. I understand I can't use sulfur within approx 2 weeks of any oil-based product or risk burning. My first question, then, is do folks have a preference of one over the other, particularly as it applies to battling mites? My concern is that if I spray sulfur I may not have time to apply anything else before I presumably head into flower by the end of the month. I'm reluctant to spray really anything once my plants are flowering although maybe folks have opinions on that. Perhaps I'm alright up until the buds really start taking shape?

I'll also mention that I'm aware that once a grow has been as overcome by broad mites (among other things) as mine has, most treatments will only be so effective. I've considered removing the worst looking portions of my plants but, to be perfectly honest, that may well be 60-75% of my garden. Is this a band-aid I should rip off at this point? Can folks speak to what broad mites will likely do to my finished buds? I understand that in some cases the buds will brown out and die but am I just as likely to see some decent flowers out there? Further, will these little buggers post up in my soil, necessitating I move my grow next year?

Thanks for your time. Although I've included them in previous posts, I've attached a couple "Greatest Hits" pics of my grow this year just to bring folks up to speed on my situation. Thanks again.. very helpful community here!

 

[Zill]

DB,

I got the neem part. Why are you spraying sulphur? What are you controlling? Fungi?

 

[deadbeet]

DB,

I got the neem part. Why are you spraying sulphur? What are you controlling? Fungi?

Hmm.. guess I’ve read that sulfur can be an effective method for controlling mites.

 

[Zill]

DB,

You are correct.

“Using sulfur for mites, thrips and psyllids is not only effective but far less toxic than some other chemical pesticide options. Although it may be a skin and eye irritant, sulfur is nontoxic to humans and other mammals, advises Clemson University Cooperative Extension Service”

 

[Deadstill]

AgroMagen GrowSafe biopesticide. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M983TRL/ref=twister_B09R2CP56Y?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Organic/OMRI listed, can be used from seedling to harvest. Won't burn, won't kill honeybees. Works better than anything I've ever used to kill mites/aphids over 20+ years of growing cannabis. Highly recommended. Will eliminate even the heaviest infestations with just 1 application, 2 to be safe.

A little pricey, but not outrageously expensive, either. Quite literally the only downside to this in my opinion, it will leave a very slight "deep fryer" smell on your plants for a couple of days, but it goes away fairly quickly and it's easy to rinse off later on.

Check it out, you won't be disappointed. Worth every penny.

 

[Trash_2002]

broadmites are hell to deal with tho, one of the worst pests to clean. Outdoor im not sure if worse or better to treat, but you doing the right rotation, those bitches get resistant really fast to stuff.. i would spray every 3 days with 3 different products, one each time, spinosad, pyretrin, azamax, two rounds of each. only in veg!!

If some of the plants are just borderline infested i would just kill em.

thank god i never got it, but have a friend battling it for the second time, he is cleaning everything with pure bleach and repainting/preparing his room, and i will donate 10 clean clones for him to restart fresh.

 

[deadbeet]

broadmites are hell to deal with tho, one of the worst pests to clean. Outdoor im not sure if worse or better to treat, but you doing the right rotation, those bitches get resistant really fast to stuff.. i would spray every 3 days with 3 different products, one each time, spinosad, pyretrin, azamax, two rounds of each. only in veg!!

If some of the plants are just borderline infested i would just kill em.

thank god i never got it, but have a friend battling it for the second time, he is cleaning everything with pure bleach and repainting/preparing his room, and i will donate 10 clean clones for him to restart fresh.

What do you know about their life cycle? Think I should move my outdoor grow next year? It'd be a bit of a project for me.. my current setup is raised/terraced beds (plenty of Southern exposure at our place but no soil to speak of) which I reuse every year but amend with sifted compost, etc.

 

[Trash_2002]

What do you know about their life cycle? Think I should move my outdoor grow next year? It'd be a bit of a project for me.. my current setup is raised/terraced beds (plenty of Southern exposure at our place but no soil to speak of) which I reuse every year but amend with sifted compost, etc.

"The broad mite has four stages in its life cycle: egg, larva, nymph and adult. Adult females lay 30 to 76 eggs (averaging five per day) on the undersides of leaves and in the depressions of small fruit over an eight- to 13-day period and then die. Adult males may live five to nine days."

so two 9 days rotational treatments (every 3 days a different product), would get roughly 2 full cycles.

could be a good thing to change the garden elsewhere for some harvests.

 

[deadbeet]

AgroMagen GrowSafe biopesticide. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M983TRL/ref=twister_B09R2CP56Y?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Organic/OMRI listed, can be used from seedling to harvest. Won't burn, won't kill honeybees. Works better than anything I've ever used to kill mites/aphids over 20+ years of growing cannabis. Highly recommended. Will eliminate even the heaviest infestations with just 1 application, 2 to be safe.

A little pricey, but not outrageously expensive, either. Quite literally the only downside to this in my opinion, it will leave a very slight "deep fryer" smell on your plants for a couple of days, but it goes away fairly quickly and it's easy to rinse off later on.

Check it out, you won't be disappointed. Worth every penny.

Outstanding, thank you so much. I ordered some immediately, looking forward to incorporating it into the rotation. If I have your ear, can I ask what I might should expect from my plants this year? They're definitely stunted and so I anticipate a lower yield but should I anticipate mostly unusable bud? Or maybe expect it to be a plant-by-plant basis, even stem-by-stem?

 

[Deadstill]

Outstanding, thank you so much. I ordered some immediately, looking forward to incorporating it into the rotation. If I have your ear, can I ask what I might should expect from my plants this year? They're definitely stunted and so I anticipate a lower yield but should I anticipate mostly unusable bud? Or maybe expect it to be a plant-by-plant basis, even stem-by-stem?

Yeah that's a pretty tough call to be honest.

Did you determine that broad mites are the cause of that mutative growth?

 

[deadbeet]

Yeah that's a pretty tough call to be honest.

Did you determine that broad mites are the cause of that mutative growth?

Not definitively, no. I've found mites under a microscope but can't confirm that they're broad mites.. the eggs don't have the dimpled look anyway. I guess I was suspecting broad mites in light of the way the newest growth is coming in as well as the stunted nature of the plants overall. They don't exactly show distinct signs of any of the diseases I've been pointed to, namely HLV, Fusarium, and/or Beet Curly Top.

 

[deadbeet]

Yeah that's a pretty tough call to be honest.

Did you determine that broad mites are the cause of that mutative growth?

Additionally I should mention that my pH has been at or around 7 which doesn't raise any red flags, no?

 

[Deadstill]

Additionally I should mention that my pH has been at or around 7 which doesn't raise any red flags, no?

Nah not in outdoor soil

 

[Zill]

There you go DB. Listen to the DS.

 

[deadbeet]

Yeah that's a pretty tough call to be honest.

Did you determine that broad mites are the cause of that mutative growth?

I just came from my garden and it's dire straits down there, DS. Whatever it is, it's got ahold of better than 90% of my grow if I'm being honest with myself. Every bit of new growth looks like what's in the video. I need a plant pathologist! Sure looks ominous though.. I don't have high hopes for my buds. Oh well. I brought a stem back to the house n looked at it under my microscope.. no evidence of mites. I sprayed for em regardless but it feels more and more like they're diseased. Truly, they look possessed.. breaks my heart.

 

[deadbeet]

I just came from my garden and it's dire straits down there, DS. Whatever it is, it's got ahold of better than 90% of my grow if I'm being honest with myself. Every bit of new growth looks like what's in the video. I need a plant pathologist! Sure looks ominous though.. I don't have high hopes for my buds. Oh well. I brought a stem back to the house n looked at it under my microscope.. no evidence of mites. I sprayed for em regardless but it feels more and more like they're diseased. Truly, they look possessed.. breaks my heart.

Beginning to suspect Witches Broom..

 

[Zill]

DB,

That is crazy looking. All all your plants similarly affected?

Not my words…
“Witches’ broom disease is not caused by witches, however. They’re actually caused by stress that is brought on by pests or diseases. This includes anything from mites, aphids, and nematodes to fungi, viruses, and bacterial organisms (phytoplasmas)”.

 

[deadbeet]

DB,

That is crazy looking. All all your plants similarly affected?

Not my words…
“Witches’ broom disease is not caused by witches, however. They’re actually caused by stress that is brought on by pests or diseases. This includes anything from mites, aphids, and nematodes to fungi, viruses, and bacterial organisms (phytoplasmas)”.

Honestly, it's every plant at this point. My understanding of Witches Broom is that it's a phytoplasma that is typically carried by leafhoppers. Unfortunately, I had tarnished plant bug in my garden this year. It was my first time dealing with this pest and I wasn't particularly aggressive as I didn't see them actively damaging my plants. Alas, I'm beginning to suspect they were vectors for this disease.

 

[Zill]

All the plants, huh. I guess same seed lot. It sort of looks like a genetic aberration. There's a lot a lot work in all that. Ok, so morphologically it looks awful. Are you getting flowers?

 

[deadbeet]

All the plants, huh. I guess same seed lot. It sort of looks like a genetic aberration. There's a lot a lot work in all that. Ok, so morphologically it looks awful. Are you getting flowers?

The seeds are from various sources/breeders, some of which I've had in my possession for a couple years and have grown w/o issue. Leads me to think it's a disease from without and not contaminated seeds. I saw beginning stages of flowering last time I checked but I haven't looked in a few days. I'm tempted to chop everything to the ground, mostly out of frustration but also in the hopes of preventing the disease from overwintering in my planting space. Alas, my gut tells me I should relocate my grow next year regardless, let this garden rest for a season.