Bud density, typical for Autos?

[Eledin]

2 of them are Gelato ,and the other Papaya Cookies from Fast Buds. I do use Bud clips and did some LST, is that the deformity your talking about?

No, the buds look a bit weird to me. I noticed the LST but that shouldnt be a problem with most autos, you didnt do any heavy stress training.

 

[Eledin]

You’ve got 16 sq feet of grow space and 200 watts of light, not nearly enough. That’s 12.5 watts per sq ft., the sweet spot for LED’s is around 32-35 watts per sq ft. Even at 25 watts sq ft (which is bare minimum) you need at least 400 watts, 550-600 would be optimum. You can dump all the nutes you want on them, but lack of light is your issue.

Ive got pretty decent buds with 2x75W LED bulbs for 4 plants in 5gal, yes bulbs hahaha. The thing with those low wattage panels or bulbs is that you gotta keep them close, keep the plant compact by keeping the light relatively close or do a good lollipop, or both, because they lose a lot of umols with distance compared to higher end LED panels. You also wont reach optimal umols if you dont keep them close and keep pulling them as the plant grows, but that creates another problem, heat. But since he is not using a tent witn a fan to disipate the heat focused towards the lights should be more than enough. Also increasing the light schedule to 20/4 will help too, thats my go for with autos considering my panels are just slightly better than his, if even because my diodes are cheap af. If you cant increase the umols, you might aswell increase the hours of lights to try to get as close as possible to the DLI (Daily light integral, how much light a plant can process in 1 day basically).
EDIT: Oh yeah forget about your lower buds getting any good too, I just cut the branches that are not gonna give shit and that really helps other buds develop better.

 

[Eledin]

This a GG4 auto harvest I'm going to clean up a bit more and put into a Grove Bag tonight. She was suppose to be a photo then showed auto so she never got a chance. Had a major PH issue. So it was doomed from the start. She smokes good and smooth, typical GG4 and fufu weed high. Taken care of properly and no PH issues she would have produced twice as much and a bit denser buds. Is what it is...

View attachment 2353390
View attachment 2353391

It still looks good! And have a good shape. But yes autos under photoperiod light are not the best and if it had problems from the start... you really had a green thumb to turn it around like that! Maybe what Im saying is not true with better panels than mine but 12/12 for autos only gave me deformed and small buds. Im trying a different approach this time, I got a tent with 3 photos going, was suposed to be 4 but 1 failed on me so Im gonna put 4 small autos. I will reduce light gradually to give time for the autos to develop nicely and I will try to delay 12/12 as much as possible. Photos still flower under 14/10 even if slower and I will probably try 16/8 before that and see what happens.

 

[Blastfact]

It still looks good! And have a good shape. But yes autos under photoperiod light are not the best and if it had problems from the start... you really had a green thumb to turn it around like that! Maybe what Im saying is not true with better panels than mine but 12/12 for autos only gave me deformed and small buds. Im trying a different approach this time, I got a tent with 3 photos going, was suposed to be 4 but 1 failed on me so Im gonna put 4 small autos. I will reduce light gradually to give time for the autos to develop nicely and I will try to delay 12/12 as much as possible. Photos still flower under 14/10 even if slower and I will probably try 16/8 before that and see what happens.

With a auto when the seed pops the time clock starts,,, period end of subject. We as growers have no idea what that time span is. The breeder has a idea and publish that idea. And it's just a average and marketing. It's life clock is running and you best be on your A game. I consider autos to be the domain of a advanced grower. A lot of beginners get suckered into autos. They grow faster, they flower faster, you get your weed faster, there easy blah blah blah. Every misstep, every mistake stunts them and those mistakes are compounding. And you never have time to truly correct it and get that stunting mistake back.

I like to grow autos in the winter. And I run them 20/4 or 24 hours straight. Seedling always run 24 hrs straight for at least two weeks. If they seem to like it they stay 24 hrs. If they don't then it's 20/4. You have to drop down on the PPFD because your running the lights longer. That's where the DLI for autos changes verses photos. So one has to really stay on top of the lighting. That pushes your watering and feeding and environment. You have to have a A game in the world of autos. That's why I always tell beginners to start with photos and dirt. A basic grow and get it down. Then move on to autos if you want. Then rip off into a photo coco grow. Get that down go in to coco auto's. Have all that in your tool kit then go Hydro and Blow & Go. And then at some point you will get sick of mad scientist crap and be back to basic dirt grows like I am and happy as a pig in a mud hole with basic organics.

The struggle is real!

 

[Gmix]

This a GG4 auto harvest I'm going to clean up a bit more and put into a Grove Bag tonight. She was suppose to be a photo then showed auto so she never got a chance. Had a major PH issue. So it was doomed from the start. She smokes good and smooth, typical GG4 and fufu weed high. Taken care of properly and no PH issues she would have produced twice as much and a bit denser buds. Is what it is...

View attachment 2353390
View attachment 2353391

They are doing a organic grow bud no need to ph organic grows

 

[kenk1960]

What else could it be? Do you know at how many inches do you keep those lights from the canopy? Getting some reflectivity out of the walls with white paint as suggested by @Gmix is a great idea. If you dont wanna paint you could also buy mylar and put it on the walls. 2x100W for 3 plants is not bad but they can certainly benefit from more light, specially coming from the sides to help the secondary branc

Ive got pretty decent buds with 2x75W LED bulbs for 4 plants in 5gal, yes bulbs hahaha. The thing with those low wattage panels or bulbs is that you gotta keep them close, keep the plant compact by keeping the light relatively close or do a good lollipop, or both, because they lose a lot of umols with distance compared to higher end LED panels. You also wont reach optimal umols if you dont keep them close and keep pulling them as the plant grows, but that creates another problem, heat. But since he is not using a tent witn a fan to disipate the heat focused towards the lights should be more than enough. Also increasing the light schedule to 20/4 will help too, thats my go for with autos considering my panels are just slightly better than his, if even because my diodes are cheap af. If you cant increase the umols, you might aswell increase the hours of lights to try to get as close as possible to the DLI (Daily light integral, how much light a plant can process in 1 day basically).
EDIT: Oh yeah forget about your lower buds getting any good too, I just cut the branches that are not gonna give shit and that really helps other buds develop better.

There is some confusion here , I am using a 4 X 4 Viviosun tent, exhaust fan, fan for air circulation, humidifier/dehumidifier as needed.

I kinda figured I was low on wattage, maybe that is the biggest culprit.

 

[Blastfact]

They are doing a organic grow bud no need to ph organic grows

You do have to PH organic grows bud. To high or to low ph and you best deal with it. I've been down this road. Thats was a organic grow. Put the ph on ignore and got lazy then got caught out with 8.5+ ph out of the tap. Organics can't perform miracles.

 

[Gmix]

No you do not
That myth has been dispelled here many many times.

 

[kenk1960]

For what's it's worth, using distilled H2O and the PH hasn't been an issue.

 

[Blastfact]

No you do not
That myth has been dispelled here many many times.

Right on killer.....

 

[Gmix]

Right on killer.....

I was going to talk rationally, you don’t need to call me names.

I was going to admit if your pH is wildly out then yes, you may have to adjust it

Which I was gonna post before you even posted again as I am man enough to admit when I’m wrong

 

[Redneckx]

Right on killer.....

He's right.
Me personally never pH'd anything, not even in pure Coco so far...maybe I will in future when things getting out of hand, but by now not one nute issue, not even with adding silica or rock phosphate.
Also using tab water.
I know it's not optimal and it's always good to know the pH but stay in range of nutes and everything's fine.

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

You have to have a A game in the world of autos. That's why I always tell beginners to start with photos and dirt. A basic grow and get it down. Then move on to autos if you want. Then rip off into a photo coco grow. Get that down go in to coco auto's. Have all that in your tool kit then go Hydro and Blow & Go. And then at some point you will get sick of mad scientist crap and be back to basic dirt grows like I am and happy as a pig in a mud hole with basic organics.

I'm with you on that, for sure. I've wondered if autos might be best for commercial growers who want predictable growing times. I don't live in that world, though, so IDK.

You do have to PH organic grows bud. To high or to low ph and you best deal with it. I've been down this road. Thats was a organic grow. Put the ph on ignore and got lazy then got caught out with 8.5+ ph out of the tap. Organics can't perform miracles.

I grow organically. I occasionally check the pH of my tap water and it's always right on 7.6, so I don't spend much time worrying about it. It can be difficult to diagnose other grower's problems, though, because pH certainly can be a problem if it's out of the range that the mycorrhiza can handle. I suspect it's uncommon for the water's pH to be a problem. It certainly can happen, though.

 

[Blastfact]

I'm with you on that, for sure. I've wondered if autos might be best for commercial growers who want predictable growing times. I don't live in that world, though, so IDK.


I grow organically. I occasionally check the pH of my tap water and it's always right on 7.6, so I don't spend much time worrying about it. It can be difficult to diagnose other grower's problems, though, because pH certainly can be a problem if it's out of the range that the mycorrhiza can handle. I suspect it's uncommon for the water's pH to be a problem. It certainly can happen, though.

Historically my ph runs in the mid 7's and thats not a issue at all. I got lazy and stopped checking and got hung out with mid to high 8's. As the water plant was working to get the ph down it would swing low. So the yoyo set in and I didn't catch it.

 

[Captspaulding]

He's right.
Me personally never pH'd anything, not even in pure Coco so far...maybe I will in future when things getting out of hand, but by now not one nute issue, not even with adding silica or rock phosphate.
Also using tab water.
I know it's not optimal and it's always good to know the pH but stay in range of nutes and everything's fine.

Same, ph issues are actually rare.
Looks more llike heat stress blast.

 

[Blastfact]

Same, ph issues are actually rare.
Looks more llike heat stress blast.

Look organics can not at any level deal with documented high 8 ph and next watering have high 5 ph. You can't yoyo organics. Sure ph at the tap of high 7's and low 6's aren't a issue and low 8's maybe ok if stable. I chased this for 3 months before I pulled my head out, calibrated my ph meters and checked. Then called a buddy of mine thats a retired water plant operator here in town who still monitors the water and he laughed and told me about the massive swings. No heat stress temps/rh are stable. And neither tent can handle running high ppfd right now. The plants show different deficiencies because there uptake changes as the ph changes and no amount of organic setup can take a beating like that. I only got into this thread because I had a stunted auto. I didn't know it was a auto seed package with photos. And I didn't know I was having massive ph swings. And any issue with a auto can trash it and effect bud density and over all production. When I watered the other day and I checked the ph it was 8.4 out of the tap. I'm not watering with that, so I knocked it down. The yoyo has been stopped....

 

[Eledin]

With a auto when the seed pops the time clock starts,,, period end of subject. We as growers have no idea what that time span is. The breeder has a idea and publish that idea. And it's just a average and marketing. It's life clock is running and you best be on your A game. I consider autos to be the domain of a advanced grower. A lot of beginners get suckered into autos. They grow faster, they flower faster, you get your weed faster, there easy blah blah blah. Every misstep, every mistake stunts them and those mistakes are compounding. And you never have time to truly correct it and get that stunting mistake back.

I like to grow autos in the winter. And I run them 20/4 or 24 hours straight. Seedling always run 24 hrs straight for at least two weeks. If they seem to like it they stay 24 hrs. If they don't then it's 20/4. You have to drop down on the PPFD because your running the lights longer. That's where the DLI for autos changes verses photos. So one has to really stay on top of the lighting. That pushes your watering and feeding and environment. You have to have a A game in the world of autos. That's why I always tell beginners to start with photos and dirt. A basic grow and get it down. Then move on to autos if you want. Then rip off into a photo coco grow. Get that down go in to coco auto's. Have all that in your tool kit then go Hydro and Blow & Go. And then at some point you will get sick of mad scientist crap and be back to basic dirt grows like I am and happy as a pig in a mud hole with basic organics.

The struggle is real!

Amen. The only reason I wanna put 4 autos in there and try to make it work is because the 3 plants that are in there are already 2 weeks old so I need something fast, Im aware that Im not gonna get the perfect auto. Ive grown them succesfully many times under 20/4 but when I started growing I started with photos because someone was nice enough to tell me what you just said hahaha so I went with photos and thank God, because my first first couple of grows were a mess and still managed to get nice buds, with autos it would have been horrible and demoralizing hahaha.

 

[Eledin]

There is some confusion here , I am using a 4 X 4 Viviosun tent, exhaust fan, fan for air circulation, humidifier/dehumidifier as needed.

I kinda figured I was low on wattage, maybe that is the biggest culprit.

Yeah most likely is lack of light. Sorry I saw them outside of the tent in the pic and I forgot you mentioned the tent at first. So how far away are the lights from the plants when you grow? If you feel warmth when you put your hand on the top canopy is probably too hot, if not it could be too far. I know right now you cant check but do it next grow, if your fans are good enough it shouldnt be a problem to keep it fairly close, do you have a probe in the upper canopy meassuring temperature besides the one in the tent? Autos are very light hungry next time I would try 20/4 or even 24/0 (Im not a fan of 24/0 but if you cant hit the daily light integral it will surely help) 18/6 is fine but with such low wattage I dont think it is.

 

[Captspaulding]

Look organics can not at any level deal with documented high 8 ph and next watering have high 5 ph. You can't yoyo organics. Sure ph at the tap of high 7's and low 6's aren't a issue and low 8's maybe ok if stable. I chased this for 3 months before I pulled my head out, calibrated my ph meters and checked. Then called a buddy of mine thats a retired water plant operator here in town who still monitors the water and he laughed and told me about the massive swings. No heat stress temps/rh are stable. And neither tent can handle running high ppfd right now. The plants show different deficiencies because there uptake changes as the ph changes and no amount of organic setup can take a beating like that. I only got into this thread because I had a stunted auto. I didn't know it was a auto seed package with photos. And I didn't know I was having massive ph swings. And any issue with a auto can trash it and effect bud density and over all production. When I watered the other day and I checked the ph it was 8.4 out of the tap. I'm not watering with that, so I knocked it down. The yoyo has been stopped....

Oh, I get it bro. I’m not trying to be a dick or anything. I’m just doing it for the conversation, brother.
So your pre-treating your water before every feed or are you just dealing with the crazy swings that are coming from? I guess your water department?

 

[Eledin]

About the PH thingy... Ill give my 2 cents because I think both sides are right. Ive grown organic for enough years to give my opinion I think. Yes, you can get away with not meassuring PH in organic, should you do it? Depends, if its tap water hell to the no, I would test PH at least once and make sure is not too far from 7 PH and work from there. If its distilled water (ph of 7) or RO water (ph of 6,5) then sure, why would you need to check it. You can also do tap water and it might be fine or not, my tap water has a PH of 8,5+ and this highly depends on where you live. But the thing is that I got lazy with the PH a couple of times and I started having mineral deficiencies despite the fact that I was feeding them, nothing crazy when I noticed I started PHing again. So... can you get away with it? Yes, if youre not using high alkalinity tap water. Is it optimal? I prefeer to keep my PH at 6,5. The microorganisms decompose the organic matter for your plant and make nutrients available no matter the PH, but that doesnt mean that you cant increase the absorption ratio of nutrients so they eat faster, many ammendments contain chelated minerals or just minerals that are better absorved at that PH.
AN knows this, Iguana Juice will PH your water to 6,5 at full dose despite being from the organic line and it has phosphoric acid like many PH downs.