Advice needed please, plant looking sad.

[mxvet747]

Why wont flushing with ph'd water remove salt build up? Should I get sledgehammer or Epsom salt? I could add some molasses for microbes

 

[ArtfulCodger]

Only water when first 2'' are dry

You might let them dry back a little longer. In OF or HF, I don't water again until the pots are very light.

 

[Grownsince95]

They look like they were over fed for a bit and got salt lockout. It's easy to over do it in flower especially if they've had high VPD

Why wont flushing with ph'd water remove salt build up? Should I get sledgehammer or Epsom salt? I could add some molasses for microbes

You could do it with Castile soap. The yucca is just a wetting agent and that's what you really need. Back in the day we did it with Dawn dish soap. You need a surfactant to make a flush really effective, some people add it to their rez no matter what.

If you have the synthetic nutes on hand I wouldn't worry about microbes. Your plants are at a crucial stage and getting them back on track as quickly as possible should be the goal.

 

[Eledin]

So those are synthetic, nobody answered me hahaha but thats fine I used google like a big boy. I thought FF only sold organic stuff but apparently not.
I personally use epsom salts but because I grow organic, it doesnt flush the salts away but makes the salts available for the plant. Thats why you should avoid mixing epsom salts with a water nute feeding, you might burn your plants.

 

[mxvet747]

Thanks for all the great advice, I'm getting some sledgehammer today and I'll give that a try.

 

[Week4Bytch]

There are many charts of nutrient availability based on ph, some are slightly different than others but I always choose one that tends to be similar to most of them. While weed can perfectly handle 5,5ph the nutrient absorption will be altered and it might lead to nutrient umbalance in the soil, some nutrients block others from being absorved and others are absorved in bigger quantities than optimal.
View attachment 2466618

That's a chart is for soil grows. Because he is using salt based bottle nutrition you'd want to go with a hydroponic pH chart. Which is 10 below the soils. 5.5 to 6.5 is where bottle growers need to be.

 

[Grownsince95]

That's a chart is for soil grows. Because he is using salt based bottle nutrition you'd want to go with a hydroponic pH chart. Which is 10 below the soils. 5.5 to 6.5 is where bottle growers need to be.

This is incorrect. If the OP is growing in soil with organic material/buffers you use the soil charts. The hydroponic chart assumes an inert medium.

 

[Week4Bytch]

This is incorrect. If the OP is growing in soil with organic material/buffers you use the soil charts. The hydroponic chart assumes an inert medium.

Even if using synthetic bottle nutrients? The question would then be. . Why is he using bottled nutrients if the soil with organic inputs are in place? Using both systems, synthetic nutrients and organic inputs is just asking for a lockout as nutrients bind to the soil, vs readily available for plant uptake. If the OP is intent on using some form of bottle nutrition,he might have better luck looking into those that have nutrients that are already in chelated form, that would complement the soils input vs counter acting it as a synthetic input would.

 

[Grownsince95]

Even if using synthetic bottle nutrients? The question would then be. . Why is he using bottled nutrients if the soil with organic inputs are in place?

Because unamended bag soil like fox farm etc only have enough nutrients for vegging. You either have to add organic stuff like bone meal, worm castings etc in the beginning or top dress at certain points or you could just water with synthetics.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Because unamended bag soil like fox farm etc only have enough nutrients for vegging. You either have to add organic stuff like bone meal, worm castings etc in the beginning or top dress at certain points or you could just water with synthetics.

So then it's a synthetic grow...not organic. Right?

 

[Grownsince95]

So then it's a synthetic grow...not organic. Right?

Like certified by the FDA organic? Probably not. And the FF is chelated. Micros always are and it's not necessary with macros.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Like certified by the FDA organic? Probably not. And the FF is chelated. Micros always are and it's not necessary with macros.

Organic as dry amendments added with the reliance of active microbes and fungi to break down the fungi for plant available nutrients.

If that FF is chelated then not sure what the problem is other than the pH of the media. I'm really curious as to what FF recommended pH range is for their product. They're are two distinct recommendations, one for synthetic and one for soil. The soil is for those relying on the above mentioned action to work properly. The lower range is recommended for synthetic users whose bottle feed is meant for direct plant feed.
A quick Google and we get this ...

For most plants, when using FoxFarm fertilizers, including their liquid nutrient trio, you should aim for a nutrient solution pH range between 5.6 and 6.8.

Dam...that's a wide range. I'd still aim for that 5.5 to 6.5 especially since as you stated, the soil is obviously depleted by now so everything is reliant on the bottle feed.

Could also be just a simple lockout, especially if they don't feed or water till runoff. Get that runoff in . . It's important when bottle feeding.

 

[7munkee]

Organic as dry amendments added with the reliance of active microbes and fungi to break down the fungi for plant available nutrients.

If that FF is chelated then not sure what the problem is other than the pH of the media. I'm really curious as to what FF recommended pH range is for their product. They're are two distinct recommendations, one for synthetic and one for soil. The soil is for those relying on the above mentioned action to work properly. The lower range is recommended for synthetic users whose bottle feed is meant for direct plant feed.
A quick Google and we get this ...

For most plants, when using FoxFarm fertilizers, including their liquid nutrient trio, you should aim for a nutrient solution pH range between 5.6 and 6.8.

Dam...that's a wide range. I'd still aim for that 5.5 to 6.5 especially since as you stated, the soil is obviously depleted by now so everything is reliant on the bottle feed.

Could also be just a simple lockout, especially if they don't feed or water till runoff. Get that runoff in . . It's important when bottle feeding.

Thats why I grow organically. I have a bytch (heh) of a time with pH. I spent hundreds of dollars on testers and solutions and struggled to make it to harvest. With organics its tap water straight from the fawcett. I don't even worry about the chlorine, there is enough microbes in my soil to rip that chlorine to shreds.

 

[Grownsince95]

Organic as dry amendments added with the reliance of active microbes and fungi to break down the fungi for plant available nutrients.

If that FF is chelated then not sure what the problem is other than the pH of the media. I'm really curious as to what FF recommended pH range is for their product. They're are two distinct recommendations, one for synthetic and one for soil. The soil is for those relying on the above mentioned action to work properly. The lower range is recommended for synthetic users whose bottle feed is meant for direct plant feed.
A quick Google and we get this ...For most plants, when using FoxFarm fertilizers, including their liquid nutrient trio, you should aim for a nutrient solution pH range between 5.6 and 6.8.

5.6 to 6.8 basically covers the entire range of all the nutrients cannabis uses. They're just covering their ass. Rainwater is below 6 pH. The truth of the matter is both soil buffers, microbes and the plants themselves change the pH of the rhizosphere as long as the water going in isn't too crazy out of range you're fine.

 

[Week4Bytch]

5.6 to 6.8 basically covers the entire range of all the nutrients cannabis uses. They're just covering their ass. Rainwater is below 6 pH. The truth of the matter is both soil buffers, microbes and the plants themselves change the pH of the rhizosphere as long as the water going in isn't too crazy out of range you're fine.

If you have the microbe biology... Meaning the soil is alive, and in them small pots, I highly doubt it. That's why I'd treat it as a straight synthetic grow.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Anyways, no disrespect guys, I'm just not a fan of FF nutrition and always question organic in a bottle for the main inputs. If it's working for some you then right on. Kick ass. Disregard this old man waving his fist in the air ...

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

Because unamended bag soil like fox farm etc only have enough nutrients for vegging. You either have to add organic stuff like bone meal, worm castings etc in the beginning or top dress at certain points or you could just water with synthetics.

Also, if a grower is truly looking for a water only soil mix, they do exist ... at a much higher price point. Lush by Roots Organic is a very rich mix and many people can get through a whole grow with little additional nutrients added.

Key word is "little additional" because even Lush will sometimes run out of gas. However, at $30+ a bag ... I'll pass. I'll stick to Ocean Forest which I can purchase locally for a bit more than $13 out the door.

 

[7munkee]

If you have the microbe biology... Meaning the soil is alive, and in them small pots, I highly doubt it. That's why I'd treat it as a straight synthetic grow.

Correct. To use organics and microbes correctly, I wouldn't use anything under 12 gallons or so. With 12 gallon pot you could probly go water only. Anything smaller and you will want to supplement it . Either compost teas ( if made properly) or soluble nutes.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Also, if a grower is truly looking for a water only soil mix, they do exist ... at a much higher price point. Lush by Roots Organic is a very rich mix and many people can get through a whole grow with little additional nutrients added.

Key word is "little additional" because even Lush will sometimes run out of gas. However, at $30+ a bag ... I'll pass. I'll stick to Ocean Forest which I can purchase locally for a bit more than $13 out the door.

True story. This it the only way Todd McCormick grows his stuff. With the Lush Roots Organic. Says he has pallets of it. No amendments nothing. Just soil.

 

[RoadKillSkunkHunt]

True story. This it the only way Todd McCormick grows his stuff. With the Lush Roots Organic. Says he has pallets of it. No amendments nothing. Just soil.

It's expensive ... but its good stuff. I used to use it when I could purchase it for $17 a bag. It's over $30 now locally. I'd have to make an hour and a half round trip to Grow Green Mi to get it cheaper ... at around $24 a bag.