internet is full of bullshit

[RegularRebel]

You know with your breadth of knowledge as an expert witness you could stop the fraud all on your own.
You stated in an open chat that some 30 % of pot is all the same and yet they get away with calling it different strains.
This is called fraud.
Fraud can not be mitigated by including information of a technical nature in the transaction that shows that the product or service is not as described. Doing so becomes conspiracy.

So as you have done well shielding yourself from the " fight " as you say by not publicly stating the names of the breeders how about your join the fight there internet guy. Lead the way. Call em out and get some lawyer to pro bono your lawsuit exposing the lies.
You stated I have given up.
No just perhaps a bit more seasoned in the realities of our situation.
I have not chosen strains based on much as I am a really new grower. But I do know that Cannabis products help me deal with extreme pain and have gotten me off long term opioids. It has gone from an arrestable offence to a product on a shelf in 1/2 my lifetime. Our fight seems to be working.
Yours has yet to start.

I didn't do the scientific study. Its here: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0267498
And an earlier one here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7815053/



None of what you are saying changes the facts of the evidence. From a chemistry first perspective the overwhelming majority is just 3 terpene profiles. Thats evidence.

Call them out for what? Breaking which regulation? The commercial breeders can and do get away with it, because there is no labeling standards. Anyone can name any plant whatever they want. No rule, law or regulation is in place from naming any plant whatever somebody wants to and making up descriptions of it. Thats part of the problem. They have just made a fool of uninformed consumers. Thats allowed because the customer has no rights in place when buying from them.

I understand how ot can make someone cranky and jealous. Something they are identified with is suddenly devalued.

by the way "strain" is lingo for microbial life. You can have strains of bacteria. In horticulture its called cultivars. Im talking about chemovars. This is vocabulary day.

Obviously you are a seasoned pro and can't be told anything. So you tell tell us about which of the 3 terpene profiles works best for your particular situation to treat symptoms. How reliable and stable is it? What is its genetic relation to other samples of the same name? Lets keep on the subject and leave ad hominem fallacy out of it. The subject is chemovars, not about me.

Dont be ashamed man. You arent the only one that got duped by them. Look around here! Just tell us which commercial product you use and we can discuss its chemistry. If you want to write something, add something of value to the topic.

 

[Hossgrows]

Hitler tried the pure race thing, u see how that went.

As for plants...always evolving to weather, climate change, ect.

NOTHING LASTS FOREVER....EVER.

EVEN CLONES.

Yes, it sucks. But that's life, and it's short enough as it is. Just enjoy it, not bitch about it. Most aren't worrying about what's in it, compared to how it performs for their needs and location of growing. I'm glad we have crossed genes to cultivate with, I'd get bored growing and smoking the same shit over and over.

Understand where your coming from, but as myself....it's a personal choice. Like tobacco....I prefer a straight chewing tobacco over all the candy flavors out there, today.

It's human nature to fuck things up.
So, on with the fuckery.

 

[RegularRebel]

Hitler tried the pure race thing, u see how that went.

As for plants...always evolving to weather, climate change, ect.

NOTHING LASTS FOREVER....EVER.

EVEN CLONES.

Yes, it sucks. But that's life, and it's short enough as it is. Just enjoy it, not bitch about it. Most aren't worrying about what's in it, compared to how it performs for their needs and location of growing. I'm glad we have crossed genes to cultivate with, I'd get bored growing and smoking the same shit over and over.

Understand where your coming from, but as myself....it's a personal choice. Like tobacco....I prefer a straight chewing tobacco over all the candy flavors out there, today.

It's human nature to fuck things up.
So, on with the fuckery.

Im not complaining, I have my unique chemovars. I just keep cutting them down. It seems everyone gets happy when I kill and cut up plants.

Part of bad breeding practices is breeding for grower convenience instead of breeding for the end user. So you are doing your part to degrade the genetics in your case.

I'd get bored growing and smoking the same shit over and over.

Thats what the evidence proves you are doing. Same 3 products just different names and descriptions. You havent noticed that? Others do.


Lets have a look at these different varieties you enjoy. What are they?

 

[JIMKSI64]

I didn't do the scientific study. Its here: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0267498
And an earlier one here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7815053/



None of what you are saying changes the facts of the evidence. From a chemistry first perspective the overwhelming majority is just 3 terpene profiles. Thats evidence.

Call them out for what? Breaking which regulation? The commercial breeders can and do get away with it, because there is no labeling standards. Anyone can name any plant whatever they want. No rule, law or regulation is in place from naming any plant whatever somebody wants to and making up descriptions of it. Thats part of the problem. They have just made a fool of uninformed consumers. Thats allowed because the customer has no rights in place when buying from them.

I understand how ot can make someone cranky and jealous. Something they are identified with is suddenly devalued.

by the way "strain" is lingo for microbial life. You can have strains of bacteria. In horticulture its called cultivars. Im talking about chemovars. This is vocabulary day.

Obviously you are a seasoned pro and can't be told anything. So you tell tell us about which of the 3 terpene profiles works best for your particular situation to treat symptoms. How reliable and stable is it? What is its genetic relation to other samples of the same name? Lets keep on the subject and leave ad hominem fallacy out of it. The subject is chemovars, not about me.

Dont be ashamed man. You arent the only one that got duped by them. Look around here! Just tell us which commercial product you use and we can discuss its chemistry.

Ok I will let you know what I am running next.
Let me know what the profile is and if it is good for nerve pain, stiffness in joints. Left over trauma pain from 2 knees and multiple back surgeries including L3 to 5 fusion.
https://blimburnseeds.com/blackberry-moonrocks/

Also little story about technical growth and pushback
From 95 to 2000 I was an auto instructor at a government run training facility. I was also a proud member of the international Automotive Technician Network.
At this point in the automotive industry use of scan tools and the tools themselves were very limited. Some were junk and some were just ok. Unless you had an open tool in a lot of cases you were screwed.
A few of us guys had gotten together to discuss and we started bouncing ideas and best practices. At this time I had discovered a few things on my own due to a series of fortunate events.
A training center in the government run system was going down and I got to go shopping.
Among the things I got for the shop was a very nice lab scope. And when I say very nice it was the first scope I ever got my hands on that could measure track and display in pico seconds.
One day while looking at the secondary firing events with my students my hand bumped the time scale and kind of burped to maximum. The spark line we were discussing but the trace line had a blip in it. It looked like trash but it was not. It was just a low level " blip " of some sort.
I reduced the voltage scale from thousands for secondary until I hit 12v.
As soon as I saw the picture I knew what it was. I had seen that waveform before. It was a perfect trace of the primary ignition event.
I could see the coil fire with an inductive probe around the secondary ignition.
This was in zero literature and training. It was new. Wow with this scope I can do neat stuff. Let's see what else we can use this for
Every last electrical part on a car could be looked at for operation. A rotating electrical item will show 2 3 4 or more patterns from energizing/ termination of ground/ completion of work by looking at an electrical pattern that you just wrapped and inductive probe around.
If it is a very low powered signal we could wrap an extension wire in the circuit 10 times and the induced voltage would trigger with much more authority. These were excellent tools and techniques and I thought that the ability to lift up a vehicle, probe the pink with a black and test the fuel pump operation in 3-5 minutes vers tapping a harness and checking for voltage and if present hooking up a pressure gauge.
So I wrote up and industry paper and posted it.

Crickets.
Won't work.
Not important
That's NOT THE WAY WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE THAT.
I was sure I was onto something and a few of us had gotten together to discuss a company that would make inductive tools to process electrical signals for testing. Were were setting up things but after seeing the results of posting the paper I ran away. I saw that unless we could get a major tool company onboard or perhaps an OEM taking an interest there were very few people who can use this information.
Industry training was way behind.

So I am growing pot and like a bunch of guys here I still struggle with nutrition timing and watering practices. Much like automotive growing pot has a learning curve. You do not take a tire technician and give him an intermittent stall condition and the shop scan tool and tell him to go forth and fix this vehicle.
I will put this on my list if things to get to.
Gunna be a while.

 

[grayoldnproud]

I have my unique chemovars.

But even within the same cultivar the phytochemical response will change based on environment and post harvest handling. Measuring of one under various stressors doesn't necessarily equate across the board under different stressors.

In your case, being you have your own chemovars, have you tried growing in differing conditions, handling harvest differently to evaluate the phytochemical response?

Do you have those results?

 

[RegularRebel]

Ok I will let you know what I am running next.
Let me know what the profile is and if it is good for nerve pain, stiffness in joints. Left over trauma pain from 2 knees and multiple back surgeries including L3 to 5 fusion.
https://blimburnseeds.com/blackberry-moonrocks/

Also little story about technical growth and pushback
From 95 to 2000 I was an auto instructor at a government run training facility. I was also a proud member of the international Automotive Technician Network.
At this point in the automotive industry use of scan tools and the tools themselves were very limited. Some were junk and some were just ok. Unless you had an open tool in a lot of cases you were screwed.
A few of us guys had gotten together to discuss and we started bouncing ideas and best practices. At this time I had discovered a few things on my own due to a series of fortunate events.
A training center in the government run system was going down and I got to go shopping.
Among the things I got for the shop was a very nice lab scope. And when I say very nice it was the first scope I ever got my hands on that could measure track and display in pico seconds.
One day while looking at the secondary firing events with my students my hand bumped the time scale and kind of burped to maximum. The spark line we were discussing but the trace line had a blip in it. It looked like trash but it was not. It was just a low level " blip " of some sort.
I reduced the voltage scale from thousands for secondary until I hit 12v.
As soon as I saw the picture I knew what it was. I had seen that waveform before. It was a perfect trace of the primary ignition event.
I could see the coil fire with an inductive probe around the secondary ignition.
This was in zero literature and training. It was new. Wow with this scope I can do neat stuff. Let's see what else we can use this for
Every last electrical part on a car could be looked at for operation. A rotating electrical item will show 2 3 4 or more patterns from energizing/ termination of ground/ completion of work by looking at an electrical pattern that you just wrapped and inductive probe around.
If it is a very low powered signal we could wrap an extension wire in the circuit 10 times and the induced voltage would trigger with much more authority. These were excellent tools and techniques and I thought that the ability to lift up a vehicle, probe the pink with a black and test the fuel pump operation in 3-5 minutes vers tapping a harness and checking for voltage and if present hooking up a pressure gauge.
So I wrote up and industry paper and posted it.

Crickets.
Won't work.
Not important
That's NOT THE WAY WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE THAT.
I was sure I was onto something and a few of us had gotten together to discuss a company that would make inductive tools to process electrical signals for testing. Were were setting up things but after seeing the results of posting the paper I ran away. I saw that unless we could get a major tool company onboard or perhaps an OEM taking an interest there were very few people who can use this information.
Industry training was way behind.

So I am growing pot and like a bunch of guys here I still struggle with nutrition timing and watering practices. Much like automotive growing pot has a learning curve. You do not take a tire technician and give him an intermittent stall condition and the shop scan tool and tell him to go forth and fix this vehicle.
I will put this on my list if things to get to.
Gunna be a while.

Quality starts at the seed. Its the foundation of the garden. This has direct relation to plant health, pest/pathogen resistence, end product. I think a grease monkey doing his first oil change can confirm this logic.

If you start with junk, yeah... its going to be a junky grow. The other part of the story is how people have been duped by marketing people teaching you how to screw up your grow through bad and incomplete instructions to follow unthinkingly without knowing why, keep people ignorant of plant biology. Charging you more for selling you 12 plastic bottles for the landfill that are more than 90% water when you can save 60-80% using nutrients you add water to yourself. Show us your plastic bottle collection to grow a single plant. Imagine how many bottles grandma must have had in her shed to grow her marigolds and ferns!

 

[JIMKSI64]

Quality starts at the seed. Its the foundation of the garden. This has direct relation to plant health, pest/pathogen resistence, end product. I think a grease monkey doing his first oil change can confirm this logic.

If you start with junk, yeah... its going to be a junky grow. The other part of the story is how people have been duped by the other people teaching you how to screw up your grow through bad and incomplete instructions tonfollow, keep people ignorant of plant biology, and how to grow plants. charging you more for selling you 12 plastic bottles for the landfill that are more than 90% water when you can save 60-80% using nutrients you add water to yourself. Show us your plastic bottle collection to grow a single plant.

Where my terp profiles ?
Where's my recommendations from the guy on the internet.

I was told there would be discussions and invites to post a seed I bought.

 

[RegularRebel]

Where my terp profiles ?
Where's my recommendations from the guy on the internet.

I was told there would be discussions and invites to post a seed I bought.

I sent the recommendation for treating your physical symptoms to your inbox. I would recommend this for the obvious reasons. Historical accounts even have it used by warriors. https://growdiaries.com/diaries/296486-grow-journal-by-the-wanderer

As for the commercial hybrid, I hadn't looked into what it tested to be. Im eating hamburgers. If you actually took your choices in medicine seriously, you wouldn't be waiting around for me to spoonfeed you the information whenever I feel like it. You would already know.

Start by asking the supplier for lab results. You shop the plant now, not the names and descriptions.

 

[crimsonecho]

what's everyone's opinion of AK47?
should i do some or not?
simple question

i think i smoked it once like 15 years ago sure give it a go :)

 

[Hossgrows]

Quality starts at the seed. Its the foundation of the garden. This has direct relation to plant health, pest/pathogen resistence, end product. I think a grease monkey doing his first oil change can confirm this logic.

If you start with junk, yeah... its going to be a junky grow. The other part of the story is how people have been duped by marketing people teaching you how to screw up your grow through bad and incomplete instructions to follow unthinkingly without knowing why, keep people ignorant of plant biology. Charging you more for selling you 12 plastic bottles for the landfill that are more than 90% water when you can save 60-80% using nutrients you add water to yourself. Show us your plastic bottle collection to grow a single plant. Imagine how many bottles grandma must have had in her shed to grow her marigolds and ferns!

They used decayed organics/ composts. Primarily. Wasn't much out there for dry or liquid fertilizer at those times. That came about with industrial/commercial farming to increase productivity....change by intervention by man, once more.

So is corn, still corn. Or is it something else. It's GMO. So it can be better utilized for the climate that it's growing in. Same thing as for cannabis seed. And if left alone, will do this itself over many years of growing in the same location....a product of its own environment. Everything evolves in life and time. Change is inevitable, even without man. We'll never be able control it. We just think we can.

 

[RegularRebel]

They used decayed organics/ composts. Primarily. Wasn't much out there for dry or liquid fertilizer at those times. That came about with industrial/commercial farming to increase productivity....change by intervention by man, once more.

So is corn, still corn. Or is it something else. It's GMO. So it can be better utilized for the climate that it's growing in. Same thing as for cannabis seed. And if left alone, will do this itself over many years of growing in the same location....a product of its own environment. Everything evolves in life and time. Change is inevitable, even without man. We'll never be able control it. We just think we can.

At the end if the day the plant has the same needs. Primary, secondary, and trace nutrients. Seperating each nutrient component into its own plastic bottle to seemingly justify charging more is not ecologically friendly or budget friendly. Its just greed at any expense that preys upon the uninformed. There are distinct advatages to a dry nutrients. Adopting a defeatist attitude and saying its happened before, and continue to buy, empower and support it with your money it doesn't justify it or change it. It just prolongs and increases the problem.

Dry nutrients you mix yourself (soluble powders for hydro or organic amendments for soil) are far superior ecologically and practically. Lightweight for lower emissions, minimal packaging, stable combinations (no need for multi-bottle splits due to precipitation), zero spill hazards, drastically cheaper (60-80% savings per grow), indefinite shelf life, and full customization.

Hydro growers: Proven dry salts like Jack's 321 or Masterblend dissolve cleanly and deliver professional results in any system.

Soil/organic growers: Amendments like Gaia Green build thriving microbes for slow-release feeding and superior terpenes/flavor.

Fellow growers, switch to dry feeding and dry nutrients you add water yourself to, and explore regular seeds for responsible, resilient cultivation. You'll slash waste, costs, and your footprint while growing top-shelf cannabis that benefits the planet and community.

Let's make your grows genuinely green.

 

[Ninjadogma]

"Strain" is nothing but a bro science word that got used among underground growers and stuck, and is now the accepted scientific term when we are referring to cannabis. Sorry pal, bro science won that round. But if you reflect on the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the production of terpenous compounds and the extent they contribute to and influence the smell of our weed, somehow it feels quite appropriate.

 

[RegularRebel]

this is usually where I teach people a recipe to make their own calcium nutrient from inexpensive, or sometimes even free waste products along with magnesium with a little sulfur as a concentrate they can dilute and feed directly to the plants because its available for immediate uptake. Who makes their own calcium-magnesium-sulfur mix at home for pennies? Lets see some hands.

The fizzy part is the fun part.

 

[RegularRebel]

"Strain" is nothing but a bro science word that got used among underground growers and stuck, and is now the accepted scientific term when we are referring to cannabis. Sorry pal, bro science won that round. But if you reflect on the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the production of terpenous compounds and the extent they contribute to and influence the smell of our weed, somehow it feels quite appropriate.

Just like flippin plants. Flippin lights. We get it, but its not correct terminology. Nice addition to the topic! Fits. Lets start calling seeds eggs.

 

[Ninjadogma]

Just like flippin plants. Flippin lights. We get it, but its not correct terminology. Nice addition to the topic! Fits. Lets start calling seeds eggs.

Well the toilet snake is called the turd gun, that's not correct terminology either but in our house when somebody says quick grab the turd gun you don't get a bunch of sideways glances because that's what we've decided to call it. So you can be the dumbass who stares back at everybody else and says, "You mean the auger snake, right?" While everybody else is beginning to wade in shit.

 

[RegularRebel]

Well the toilet snake is called the turd gun, that's not correct terminology either but in our house when somebody says quick grab the turd gun you don't get a bunch of sideways glances because that's what we've decided to call it. So you can be the dumbass who stares back at everybody else and says, "You mean the auger snake, right?" While everybody else is beginning to wade in shit.

Its not about secret language for in-grouping and out-grouping of herd mentality.

People use a shared vocabulary to communicate effectively. You can provide an example where ineffective communication is harmless or funny, but there are just as many scenarios where having a common vocabulary is seriously needed as well, like when there can be a difference between life and death. Arguing one absurdity doesn't erase the need to communicate information clearly.

Thats the second fallacy, reductio ad absurdum fallacy. Wow, thats pretty fun that you all keep bringing them. Which fallacy will be next? Exciting

 

[Ninjadogma]

Its not about secret language for in-grouping and out-grouping of herd mentality.

People use a shared vocabulary to communicate effectively. You can provide an example where ineffective communication is harmless or funny, but there are just as many scenarios where having a common vocabulary is seriously needed as well, like when there can be a difference between life and death. Arguing one absurdity doesn't erase the need to communicate information clearly.

Thats the second fallacy, reductio ad absurdum fallacy. Wow, thats pretty fun that you all keep bringing them. Which fallacy will be next? Exciting

You entirely missed the point trying to post an intelligent sounding assembly of blather. Sometimes we need to communicate EFFICIENTLY just as much as we do clearly, and that's why we come up with easier ways to quickly say things, like flipping instead of transitioning a plant to flower because it's a lot less words... or saying SCUBA instead of self contained underwater breathing apparatus. And herhaps the biggest point you missed, is when slang is used long enough, it becomes the accepted terminology.

The Merriam Webster Dictionary isn't a guide on how to correctly spell and say things. It's a compilation of words used in a language and context to their meaning.

 

[RegularRebel]

You entirely missed the point trying to post an intelligent sounding assembly of blather. Sometimes we need to communicate EFFICIENTLY just as much as we do clearly, and that's why we come up with easier ways to quickly say things, like flipping instead of transitioning a plant to flower because it's a lot less words... or saying SCUBA instead of self contained underwater breathing apparatus. And herhaps the biggest point you missed, is when slang is used long enough, it becomes the accepted terminology.

The Merriam Webster Dictionary isn't a guide on how to correctly spell and say things. It's a compilation of words used in a language and context to their meaning.

I asked for another fallacy and you type away with a head red as a beet to provide me with 5. Excellent work! I underestimated you.

You missed a few key distinctions again, but that's okay. Let's break it down step by step so everyone can follow along and see where the reasoning goes off track.

Ad Hominem, False Analogy, Appeal to Popularity, Straw Man, and Appeal to the Dictionary.

First, opening with "intelligent sounding assembly of blather" doesn't actually address the argument. It's just dismissing the response personally instead of engaging the point about why precise vocabulary matters in technical contexts like horticulture and chemistry. That's a classic way to sidestep substance.

Second, comparing "strain" to SCUBA or "flipping" plants doesn't hold up. SCUBA is an acronym that filled a real gap and has no conflicting scientific meaning. "Flipping" is harmless casual shorthand. But "strain" actively confuses because it's a microbiological term improperly applied to plants. Botanists and scientists reject it for cannabis, preferring cultivar (for genetics) or chemovar (for chemistry). Sources from Royal Queen Seeds to PubMed articles call out "strain" as misleading and incorrect for plants, especially when it enables marketing fake diversity.

Third, claiming slang automatically becomes "accepted terminology" if used long enough mixes up everyday language evolution with scientific standards. Dictionaries do record common usage, sure, but science demands accuracy to avoid real-world harm. like consumers getting duped into buying the same 3 terpene profiles under hundreds of fancy names. Popularity doesn't make it right in a lab or regulated industry.

Fourth, the whole efficiency argument twists the original point. Nobody's demanding perfect formality in casual chat or household nicknames. The issue is clear communication in discussions about chemistry and breeding, where sloppy terms let breeders and sellers fool people. Pretending it's about "quick grab the turd gun" levels of urgency misrepresents the concern entirely.

Fifth, leaning on Merriam-Webster as proof ignores that descriptive dictionaries track how people talk, not how experts define terms for precision. In botany, "strain" isn't accepted, it's criticized as bro-science leftover that stuck in underground culture but never graduated to actual science.

Don't feel bad, man. A lot of folks cling to old lingo because change feels like devaluing what they're used to. But facts are facts real progress in cannabis means ditching misleading terms for chemovars and evidence-based classification.

Appreciate you keep supplying these teaching moments because it's entertaining watching the defenses pile up. What's next? Loving the pattern!

Add something useful.

For anyone curious, here's a solid read on why "strain" is botanically wrong and chemovar is better:

Cannabis Cultivars vs Chemovars vs Chemotypes: A Breakdown - RQS Blog

Do you know your cultivars from your chemotypes? How about your strains from your chemovars? Discover the meaning of these important cannabis terms.

www.royalqueenseeds.com

The science backing the limited chemical diversity: those PLOS ONE and PMC studies I linked earlier.

Let's get back to actual chemovar discussion if anyone has real input.

 

[Greenadian]

Just saying

 

[Greenadian]

Dont care to argue on this site. You do you bro
Feel free to post up some actual growing photos, room pics, breeding projects, chemovars, cultivars or the 3rd one I have already forgotten......fucking old brain is full of useless info.....sometimes hard to remember new info