LEDs causing magnesium like issues

[GasPlease]

I used to water feed with that type of cadence before moving into this place. That definitely doesn’t work here in veg anyway. I dryback to just before the point of drooping for the most part. Maybe slightly before that even. In veg I’m way more away of letting them dry back more as it seems to help. After transplant I’m watering once a week maybe. As they get more established once every few days and before I up pot it’s every day and sometimes twice a day. Really just depends on so many variables.

Sometimes I dribble the water in the areas of the pot I’m trying to wet and it takes a little bit. Other times after there are plenty of roots I’ll take the amount and put it in the pot quickly. It all just depends on how the plant is drinking and how big the root ball is I suppose.

I did read that you've tried different approaches and your watering varies. Once a week and until almost drooping? That seems too long for peat and coco plus you've added perlite.

 

[Tattooguy8]

Giving them a dark cycle doesn't equal lowering the DLI. If you shorten the on time then you increase the ppfd. 18 hrs at 650 ppfd is 40 something DLI. 42 or 43 can't remember.

If the plant is getting the right DLI during lights on then it shouldn't be stretching for light during the dark?

Anyways you said you're going to try again so I don't want to beat a dead horse.

If I can’t run more dli with a dark cycle what’s the point? Yes a plant grown under 24 hour light cycle will be shorter than the one grown with a dark period all other variables being equal. Pretty sure that has been proven out many many times.

I’m going to revisit 20/4. I don’t think I wanna try 18/6 as I have at least one mom that wants to flower at that light cycle.

 

[Tattooguy8]

I did read that you've tried different approaches and your watering varies. Once a week and until almost drooping? That seems too long for peat and coco plus you've added perlite.

Dood you are literally exhausting to try to communicate with. Your have comprehension skills you need to work on. The method you just quoted to me has worked flawlessly in the past. Along with thousands of other growers. Including people in my circle.

Since you can’t comprehend I’ll lay it out again. I’ve tried so many different dry back amounts it’s crazy. I’ve even gone so far as using a scale to weigh my pots to hit an exact dry back cycle that is proven across the board. I think you have helped here all that you can. I do appreciate the effort.

 

[Ninjadogma]

I used to water feed with that type of cadence before moving into this place. That definitely doesn’t work here in veg anyway. I dryback to just before the point of drooping for the most part. Maybe slightly before that even. In veg I’m way more away of letting them dry back more as it seems to help. After transplant I’m watering once a week maybe. As they get more established once every few days and before I up pot it’s every day and sometimes twice a day. Really just depends on so many variables.

Sometimes I dribble the water in the areas of the pot I’m trying to wet and it takes a little bit. Other times after there are plenty of roots I’ll take the amount and put it in the pot quickly. It all just depends on how the plant is drinking and how big the root ball is I suppose.

"Depends how big the root ball is"

Ding ding ding

You might already know this but I'll mention it for the benefit of others who may not. If you're doing aggressive drybacks, you've got to begin your watering by breaking the soil hydrophobia, especially if it's a peat mix. There's a couple ways, one is to work in increments where you most over the top until a little bit of water comes out the bottom and then coming back in a half hour to complete the watering, and another is to slow drip it in. I swear I've been in situations where I didn't feed for weeks and I've still had to water the EC to a safe level wondering where the fuq all this salt coming from? It finds a little pocket that's dry, when you water it doesn't get hydrated, becomes a gathering point, salts get drawn in from elsewhere in the soil, then when a little bit of water finally gets in, it dissolves into the water and you see your EC rising even though you're pouring more water in. And older plants with a pot full of roots are the worst for this. The best way to stay out of trouble with one of those is you prewater with straight water, add your fertilized water and then finish with plain water, and this ensures a lower EC across the top and bottom of the soil that usually dries first during drybacks and creates salt crusts. This is for those older plants, you don't need that level of TLC for a normal 1-3 months of veg to flower.

For your situation, I'd suggest doing drip waterings until you're sure you've gotten all the soil shelving and columning broken up.

 

[Tattooguy8]

"Depends how big the root ball is"

Ding ding ding

You might already know this but I'll mention it for the benefit of others who may not. If you're doing aggressive drybacks, you've got to begin your watering by breaking the soil hydrophobia, especially if it's a peat mix. There's a couple ways, one is to work in increments where you most over the top until a little bit of water comes out the bottom and then coming back in a half hour to complete the watering, and another is to slow drip it in. I swear I've been in situations where I didn't feed for weeks and I've still had to water the EC to a safe level wondering where the fuq all this salt coming from? It finds a little pocket that's dry, when you water it doesn't get hydrated, becomes a gathering point, salts get drawn in from elsewhere in the soil, then when a little bit of water finally gets in, it dissolves into the water and you see your EC rising even though you're pouring more water in. And older plants with a pot full of roots are the worst for this. The best way to stay out of trouble with one of those is you prewater with straight water, add your fertilized water and then finish with plain water, and this ensures a lower EC across the top and bottom of the soil that usually dries first during drybacks and creates salt crusts. This is for those older plants, you don't need that level of TLC for a normal 1-3 months of veg to flower.

For your situation, I'd suggest doing drip waterings until you're sure you've gotten all the soil shelving and columning broken up.

This is interesting. I am aware of this and while I am fully open to this being a problem in my system I just don’t see how. Most of the time when I up pot or just plant in general I pre wet the media. Two ways I do it is in a big container or by filling the pot first and flooding it to the point of full saturation and runoff. I’ll let that drain for a while then plant into that pre hydrated media. After that it’s water by weight and feel. I have a pretty good feel of what a fully saturated pot weighs and how much I have to add to that to get runoff. On the rare occasion I put my normal amount of water in a pot for its size and I notice runoff happening before it should I know the water has just ran off and down the sides. At that point I wait a bit or add water slowly till it comes out the bottom again. I then lift the pot to see if I hit saturation. I’m sure I could do better at watering with this method has always worked. The pot I pictured earlier with the roots on the outside was damp in the middle. No dry spots. Maybe my watering techniques are trash only in veg. Maybe I’ll try bottom watering. That’s one method I haven’t tried yet.

 

[GasPlease]

If I can’t run more dli with a dark cycle what’s the point?

Why can't you run more DLI with dark cycle? Or at least equal to DLI in flower room?

Sorry I can't comprehend and trying to learn.

 

[TerpBeans]

Yeah that’s sounding pretty familiar. I have two heaters in my veg room hooked to a controller so I have decent control over temps. Running the room at 84 degrees right now. Leaf surface at 78. My current setup is a large bedroom in the basement split down the middle with a door. One side veg the other side flower. Controllers in both rooms with ability to control air exchange, movement, temps and humidity. In the flower room I don’t need heat for whatever reason. I use the dimmers in the lights as heaters basically and hang the lights as high or low as they need to achieving proper ppfd. Veg room not so much even with heat.

Do you run your veg cycles under led? Do you use 24 hou light cycle of do you break it up? 18/6?

Changing nutrients just gives me slightly different variations of the same issue.

20 on 4 hours off. Veg under a 100 watt LED at 60% roughly 18" from the top of plants

 

[Ninjadogma]

Wait, did I miss that you are running a coco peat blend? Whatever you do, you DO NOT WANT aggressive drybacks, it does nothing but cause problems. Soil hydrophobia, salt accumulation, bad cation exchange, ph drift, microbial slowdown, root oxygenation can be even as bad or worse than too wet, uneven moisture and nutrients, and plant shock when you finally water, because the EC has climbed very high with less water in the soil that is triggered when you water again, which is why the problems don't show until after you water.

 

[Tattooguy8]

20 on 4 hours off. Veg under a 100 watt LED at 60% roughly 18" from the top of plants

Badass! Sorry if I missed it do you know the actual ppfd in your setup at 20/4?

 

[GasPlease]

Dood you are literally exhausting to try to communicate with. Your have comprehension skills you need to work on. The method you just quoted to me has worked flawlessly in the past. Along with thousands of other growers. Including people in my circle.

Since you can’t comprehend I’ll lay it out again. I’ve tried so many different dry back amounts it’s crazy. I’ve even gone so far as using a scale to weigh my pots to hit an exact dry back cycle that is proven across the board. I think you have helped here all that you can. I do appreciate the effort.

Why so aggressive? We're reviewing your watering practices and hydrophobic media so I mentioned drybacks. Like you said to me. "It's working for others but why can't you do it?" The longer the drybacks the higher risk of of hydrophobic properties happening?

 

[GasPlease]

I have at least one mom that wants to flower at that light cycle.

I did forget you said that yesterday.

 

[Tattooguy8]

Wait, did I miss that you are running a coco peat blend? Whatever you do, you DO NOT WANT aggressive drybacks, it does nothing but cause problems. Soil hydrophobia, salt accumulation, bad cation exchange, ph drift, microbial slowdown, root oxygenation can be even as bad or worse than too wet, uneven moisture and nutrients, and plant shock when you finally water, because the EC has climbed very high with less water in the soil that is triggered when you water again, which is why the problems don't show until after you water.

No right now I’m mostly peat and have stuck with peat the last two ish years. I was in tuper for a while. Had similar issues in coco though.

Right now I have about half of my moms in canna coco and the rest in peat just doing some more experimenting making sure I’m covering everything. Similar issues in both.

I’ve literally tried every type of dryback you can imagine over the years. From heavy dryback to watering every day regardless of moisture content. I’ve used a scale to weigh all my pots to judge specific dryback percentages like 50% or 30%. Dryback which are tried and true. I’ve done so much to try to eliminate my dumb ass guessing at stuff even though that all worked for 20 years till I moved into this place.

In the end I realize it has to be me right? I’m the variable that can’t be consistent? Although I try pretty dam hard at it.

 

[TerpBeans]

Badass! Sorry if I missed it do you know the actual ppfd in your setup at 20/4?

Yes Sir

 

[Tattooguy8]

Yes Sir

Thank you!

 

[Ninjadogma]

Why so aggressive? We're reviewing your watering practices and hydrophobic media so I mentioned drybacks. Like you said to me. "It's working for others but why can't you do it?" The longer the drybacks the higher risk of of hydrophobic properties happening?

I work with a coco peat hybrid blend that technically exists in the weird realm halfway between a soil grow and hydro. It took me forfuckingever to realize it shouldn't get drybacks like soil. But it doesn't need to be fertigated like coco either.

You'll keep the soil happy by keeping it more moist, and you'll keep your plant happy in it with appropriate amounts of perlite and biochar so it can breathe great in almost always moist conditions. You'll find the right dryback cycle by pot weight... and an example of the difference a normal dryback you're watering again when it's dropped to something like 25% of its weight. With a coco peat blend you want to water again while it still has about 75% of its water weight.

 

[noobatsex2001]

View attachment 2600325
Check this out. This was a mom I had in a one gallon. This plant was in this pot for four months roughly. Way too long I know but I’m always fiddling with stuff. I decided to break open the root ball and most of the roots were growing between the pot and media. So confusing.

wow that is really weird... maybe it just wanted more oxygene? do u use a bubbler or anything?

 

[Tattooguy8]

I work with a coco peat hybrid blend that technically exists in the weird realm halfway between a soil grow and hydro. It took me forfuckingever to realize it shouldn't get drybacks like soil. But it doesn't need to be fertigated like coco either.

Yeah I hear that. When I first started messing with coco it blew my mind how it was supposed to be used. Can’t argue the results people get.

 

[Tattooguy8]

wow that is really weird... maybe it just wanted more oxygene? do u use a bubbler or anything?

Yeah I’m stumped on it as well. I don’t use a bubbler. I don’t have a reservoir. I make every batch fresh every watering twice a day. It gets a bit exhausting but I also love being with my plants. It’s a love hate haha

 

[noobatsex2001]

Yeah I’m stumped on it as well. I don’t use a bubbler. I don’t have a reservoir. I make every batch fresh every watering twice a day. It gets a bit exhausting but I also love being with my plants. It’s a love hate haha

weirddd mann i dont even use a bubbler i just give my water a good shake in a gallon jug and iveeee never seen something like this. another thought, it could be a strain thing. maybe she wouldve like it more in some hydro clay or something like that.

 

[Tattooguy8]

I work with a coco peat hybrid blend that technically exists in the weird realm halfway between a soil grow and hydro. It took me forfuckingever to realize it shouldn't get drybacks like soil. But it doesn't need to be fertigated like coco either.

If I remember right tuper is kind of like that. Something like 30% coco and the rest aged forest products. I really liked the water holding properties were right between coco and peat. Wish I had better results with it. Maybe I’ll go back to it.