Shady’s Natural Selection… Round 4: More Strains & Growing Pains

[mikegreenthumb]

Woah dude nice nutrient profile! How do you go about identifying each elements amount in the solution anyway?

I have often heard that yellowing leaves in the last few weeks of flower is a common thing, especially when one uses low N bloom ferts. Isn't the smoke smoother when the leaves have faded a bit?

I am liking those nugs, but that BH x KM #3 is calling me especially with its sativa tendencies! Loving that frost mang!
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/Shady%20Round%205/BHxKM3-2.jpg

yes they taste far better a well known grower/guru ( cant remember witch one right now ) calls it ifanite dankage but its a BALANCING act if they yellow too early you get premature leaf drop there are different theorys to each method but whats happening when they yellow is the plant is sucking remaining nutes in the plant it shouldnt start till three weeks before harvest cause thats how long it takes for the plant to use stored nutes ie turn yellow its a sign of perfect flush when they fade perfectly but havent "crisped" yet

 

[mikegreenthumb]

Looks a lot like a Mag def to me. Is the bottom of the plant further along than this leaf? Could be some build up that's causing lock out. Flushing is probably the best way to go.

-Supa

nope its zinc issue hit em with some micro nutes / secondary nutes min n-p-k

if its zinc lockout flush or down your feeding a bit on micro

 

[mikegreenthumb]

just reviewed your prev post and saw your werent feeding any zinc and its def a zinc issue so i would get some nutes that are only micro and then wouldnt need big adjusting to your schedule / dosing

 

[justiceman]

Damn dude all those close up nug shots are looking excellent!

As for the m x b leaf I wouldn't worry about it too much as R face said since you will be finishing up soon anyway, but I can understand the desire to well....understand haha.

It is possible that you have lockout from salt build up. Have you been getting 10-15% run off from the coco when you water?

What mike said is also a possibility since your micro doesn't contain any zinc? witch is kinda weird, but I use earth juice micro blast if I need a micro boost. I actually only used it a few times this round though cuz the soul has micro nutes in it.

So you said this has been a reoccurring situation throughout the last few rounds? has it been happening to just the coco/soil or the hydro as well? hmmm very interesting. I would personally try adding some type of kelp product whether it be liquid kelp added to the nute mix or kelp meal added to the coco to help with micro nute uptake, since kelp contains a far more diverse variety of natural micros then any micro nute product.

Or as you said It might just be a little bit of lockout. Your EC is at about 2.5 right? Either way those nugs look great man!

 

[JACKMAYOFFER]

Shady just a heads up all of my Master x Bubba would do this before they went Purple if you go back to my 8 x 1000 watt grow you will see them go yellow then almost black..I was super suprized last round when they did not change color on you.Alot of the clubs that are selling here are calling her Purple Master Bubba... Looking good Bro JACK

 

[LEBDOG]

Shady just a heads up all of my Master x Bubba would do this before they went Purple if you go back to my 8 x 1000 watt grow you will see them go yellow then almost black..I was super suprized last round when they did not change color on you.Alot of the clubs that are selling here are calling her Purple Master Bubba... Looking good Bro JACK

Same thing in BadFish's vertical grow Shady! I was wondering if this was the case... Why would everything be so off? Cool of Jack to chime in with this call!

 

[mikegreenthumb]

Zinc plays a roll in the same enzyme functions as manganese and magnesium. More than eighty enzymes contain tightly bound zinc essential for their function. Zinc participates in chlorophyll formation and helps prevent chlorophyll destruction. Carbonic anhydrate has been found to be specifically activated by zinc.



Deficiencies appear as chlorosis in the inter-veinal areas of new leaves producing a banding appearance as seen in figure 18. This may be accompany reduction of leaf size and a shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled. Branch terminals of fruit will die back in severe cases.

Also gets locked out due to high pH. Zn, Fe, and Mn deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH. Don't overdo the micro-nutrients- lower the pH if that's the problem so the nutrients become available. Foliar feed if the plant looks real bad. Use chelated zinc. Zinc deficiency produces "little leaf" in many species, especially woody ones; the younger leaves are distinctly smaller than normal. Zinc defeciency may also produce "rosetting"; the stem fails to elongate behind the growing tip, so that the terminal leaves become tightly bunched.

 

[mikegreenthumb]

after you see that (prev post) you tell me what you think it is shady ? im putting a pic of your leaf for side by side http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/MxBDef1.jpg

 

[HighTolerance]

Holy Nuts man. Dude the flowers look legit man, top notch brotha.

I reckon you will have the def/lock situ under control real soon, I have full confidence in you making the right decision. If you have done enough research and feel one with the plant and the medium then going with the gut will most likely result in the right choice.

I don't know why but I am really feelin it, well I do know why it looks bomb.

http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/OGKush.jpg

 

[justiceman]

Holy Nuts man. Dude the flowers look legit man, top notch brotha.

I reckon you will have the def/lock situ under control real soon, I have full confidence in you making the right decision.

Amen HT. Shady has it on lock and he will surely figure it out!

Yo shady I got a Q for ya. I am thinking about using a flushing product at somepoint during the last 2 weeks. Would you recommend Flora Kleen over botanicare's Clearex?

 

[mikegreenthumb]

its not hard to figure out when you know your not feeding any zinc your not over feeding and then compare the two pics pretty obvious what the issue is

 

[Shady]

Shady Update...

Hey Shady, wow man your Raskal OG #3 looks GREAT dood. Id def love a cut of that and your DUD 3, cause man looks like those are some winners!! Your def doing good man, dont worry about the def.s, 1st time in coco, id say its a success my man.

And come thru anytime man, we gotta sample that bubble together, its out of this world! Like your budshots!

Later holmes!

Whaddup RF! Thx for the words of encouragement... Kinda been stressing on the job search and the garden, but maybe a road trip will get my mind off things over here. I'll touch base with you soon... :character0201:

Damn dude all those close up nug shots are looking excellent!

As for the m x b leaf I wouldn't worry about it too much as R face said since you will be finishing up soon anyway, but I can understand the desire to well....understand haha.

It is possible that you have lockout from salt build up. Have you been getting 10-15% run off from the coco when you water?

What mike said is also a possibility since your micro doesn't contain any zinc? witch is kinda weird, but I use earth juice micro blast if I need a micro boost. I actually only used it a few times this round though cuz the soul has micro nutes in it.

So you said this has been a reoccurring situation throughout the last few rounds? has it been happening to just the coco/soil or the hydro as well? hmmm very interesting. I would personally try adding some type of kelp product whether it be liquid kelp added to the nute mix or kelp meal added to the coco to help with micro nute uptake, since kelp contains a far more diverse variety of natural micros then any micro nute product.

Or as you said It might just be a little bit of lockout. Your EC is at about 2.5 right? Either way those nugs look great man!

Thx for the info on the Kelp! I think I should up my dosage on the Flora Blend. Yeah bro... This kind of lockout or deficiencies seem to occur between weeks 5 through 7 since Round 3... Doesn't seem to matter if it's PBP in soil or GH in hydro... Weird. Also this round I haven't used as much Bud Candy as I do in soil... Maybe the micro herd is hungry? :wondering

The coco and chunky perlite in a 1:1 ratio is getting decent runoff, but I believe I don't have sufficient coverage with the drip lines because of the great drainage that the mix has created...

Yeah that ROG is looking great. How you liking the smell of her, gotta love that scent.
Any pics of your exhaust inside your tent?

Thx bro! ROG #3 is starting to blossom... :mmm Click on the quote to see the rest of the picts in the LED journal.

Looks a lot like a Mag def to me. Is the bottom of the plant further along than this leaf? Could be some build up that's causing lock out. Flushing is probably the best way to go.

-Supa

I agree on the flushing Supa... There seems to be a very fine line with RO and CalMag. I just reread Round 3 where I went a little too high on the CalMag and don't want to make the same mistake. :itwasntme The lockout is beginning on the middle of the plant and progressing upwards. The lower leaves below the screen are still relatively green, but I can see this interveinal chlorosis is starting there too...

Shady just a heads up all of my Master x Bubba would do this before they went Purple if you go back to my 8 x 1000 watt grow you will see them go yellow then almost black..I was super suprized last round when they did not change color on you.Alot of the clubs that are selling here are calling her Purple Master Bubba... Looking good Bro JACK

Hi Jack! Aww man... I looked at your 8 kW and saw the yellowing leaves you mentioned and then I was reminded at how huge your MxB cola's were at the same point... Amazing work brother! One day I'll rock 1000 W... :smirk Until then, UCMESOON...

Same thing in BadFish's vertical grow Shady! I was wondering if this was the case... Why would everything be so off? Cool of Jack to chime in with this call!

Yeah brah... BadFish's trees are still burned into my mind... Absolutely stunning work in The Wherehouse. :anim_19:

after you see that (prev post) you tell me what you think it is shady ? im putting a pic of your leaf for side by side

It does look very much like a Zinc def although this is occuring on the oldest fan leaves closest to the light, as opposed to the new leaf growth in that picture from the def thread... interestingly elevated levels of Phosphorus and Calcium can aggravate the uptake of Zinc. :thinking

Holy Nuts man. Dude the flowers look legit man, top notch brotha.

I reckon you will have the def/lock situ under control real soon, I have full confidence in you making the right decision. If you have done enough research and feel one with the plant and the medium then going with the gut will most likely result in the right choice.

I don't know why but I am really feelin it, well I do know why it looks bomb.

Thx for the help HT... I think there's a salt buildup from excessive watering with the drip system, as opposed to watering only when the pots were light. Shit, now it seems as if I don't feed them enough, but it may just be a lockout... :worried As for my OG, hopefully she'll start to put on some weight in the next few weeks, but she'll never yield anything like your Casey Jones.

Amen HT. Shady has it on lock and he will surely figure it out!

Yo shady I got a Q for ya. I am thinking about using a flushing product at somepoint during the last 2 weeks. Would you recommend Flora Kleen over botanicare's Clearex?

Hmmm, I've never used Clearex, but I've heard that it's pretty good and pretty much the same as Flora Kleen. Both help break the covalent bonds in the salts and allow the medium to be flushed more effectively and without having to run 3x the pot with straight water... :icon_spin:


:speechless
Shady Update…

Well, I’m at a loss of words for the nutrient profiles… Honestly, that was the first time I ran them through the CannaStats and was surprised by the lack of trace nutrients such as Zinc, although I did see Zinc Phosphate on the GH Micro label. It actually seems that many of the nutrients formulas only list N, P, K, Mg, Ca and then they will state whether the formula was derived from a list of chemicals such as Zinc Phosphate. Hmmm, it looks very similar to a Zinc def, but this is starting on the mature fan leaves in the middle and progressing to the top rather than starting at the top. That’s what makes me believe it’s a Ca and Mg def, which has been aggravated by lockout due to high salts, and increased amounts of P and K. This always happens around the halfway point for me since I don’t usually flush. It also happens when I see the slight burn on the very tip of the each leaf... Is this a salt imbalance?

Hmmm, I’ll refer to Mulder’s Chart again, this one doesn’t show Molybdenum though: http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1610043&page=1

In any event, I honestly think there must be sufficient salts, from GH’s 3 part formula and the additional base to raise the pH, that will accumulate over time and create a lockout situation. This same thing has happened to me in Round 3 at the halfway point. Also, I suspect that the white scaling on the exterior of the Smart Pots has some salt, Calcium, and/or mineral deposits as well. Ultimately, on Monday I ended up flushing with GH Flora Kleen to the point of substantial runoff for all pots. Afterwards I resumed my watering cycle on the timer which has been 20 secs every 2 hours. This is another possible reason since all these issues began once I stopped hand watering and increased my overall PPM’s including PK boosters, notably Hammer Head PK 9/18.

This morning I changed the res for the last half of Wk #6 to the following ratios and for grins, I switched back to Hydroplex 0.5 – 4 – 10 at a very low dose, and will probably resume with Hammer Head in Wk #7 and 8. My server also crashed so I’m gonna write this in a diff format, with my naming conventions, until I can retrieve all my docs…

Here is the actual dosage for the 40 gal res w/o any shady dilution calcs:
CalMag (CM): 6.875 ml/gal
GH Micro (Micro): 6.25 ml/gal
GH Bloom (Bloom): 10.625 ml/gal
Hydroplex (HP): 1.25 ml/gal
Flora Blend (FB): 3.125 ml/gal
60 ml total of Mad Farmer’s Get Up (base) to raise pH: 5.79 pH
Total PPM’s(@ 0.5 conversion ratio): 1287 PPM’s or 2.57 EC

And now for the bud shots taken last night…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/RoundFive.jpg

Master Kush x Bubba Kush…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/MasterxBubba0.jpg

http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/MasterxBubba1.jpg

OG Kush…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/OGKush-1.jpg

Double Underdawg #3…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/DoubleUnderdawg3-1.jpg

Blue Hellfire x Kali Mist #2…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/BlueHellfirexKaliMist2.jpg

Blue Hellfire x Kali Mist #3…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/BlueHellfirexKaliMist3.jpg

Sensi Skunk #3…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/SensiSkunk3.jpg

Chem Valley Kush #4…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/ChemValleyKush4.jpg

Raskal’s OG #1…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/RaskalsOG1-1.jpg

Raskal’s OG #2…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/RaskalsOG2.jpg

Raskal’s OG #3…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/RaskalsOG30.jpg

I like Raskal’s OG #3 so much I took another shot of her…
http://i858.invalid.com/albums/ab146/ShadyRoundFive/RaskalsOG31.jpg

Interesting, the #3’s usually seem to be the best phenos…
:icon_dizzy:

P.S. I had to hit all my girls again tonight with BioNeem and I've been using the Hot Shot No Pest Strips 24 hrs a day in the bedroom... I'm probably gonna have to stop using both as I begin Wk #7.

 

[Dr Tweed]

lookin super dank as always bro . the #3 seems to be a lucky one for you ...lol and id say your right bro cal mag lockout and maybe Zn to due to salt build up especially if the leaf tips are burnt first and then the def starts .
too much K impairs Mg,Mn,Zn,Fe
too much P impairs Ca,Zn,Mg,Fe
id say that is the prob bro

 

[TheCoolestMan]

Yo Shady that #3 bro ahah i will have to hit that number next time i play lotery!!

My #3 raskal is the best too and my #3 prophet too ahaha, ur Blue Hellfire x Kali Mist #3 and Double Underdawg #3 looks dank as fuck too!!

What is this about #3? huh? The power of the trinity i will say lol...

nice job bro, everything looks so clean and well set! big up!!

 

[John Smith Esq.]

lookin good shady, that Blue Hellfire x Kali Mist #2 is hairier than pornstar bush was in the 70's, never seen pistils like it?! :party0033:

 

[supasticky]

Yeah brah... BadFish's trees are still burned into my mind... Absolutely stunning work in The Wherehouse.

That grow was RIDICULOUS! Jack is fuckin killin it too right now. And so are you Shady lol I love that MxB in the bay I'm pretty sure they are just calling it Master Kush, but it's different than what I used to get as MK. Keep up the good work brah!

-Supa

 

[mikegreenthumb]

looks dank as fuck shady im a lil curious thou they kinda look undersized dont get me wrong looks dank as fuck but a lil under sized for week 6? im a lil curious as to what you yield is per plant and the size of those plants do you think they could be bulkier do i dont think you flower under mh but they kinda look like it idk just a thought

 

[justiceman]

Damn nice buds shady! Look at that frost on the raskal og #3. Looks like you have me beat in the frost department this time around. I need to up my resin production like that. And i still love that BH x KM #3. Seriously man what is up with all the #3 ones gaining status of ultimate?!

In any event, I honestly think there must be sufficient salts, from GH’s 3 part formula and the additional base to raise the pH, that will accumulate over time and create a lockout situation.

That seems like quite the logical thought right there since GH's 3 part should contain practically all of the "necessary" elements for plant growth.

Since you think that a build up over time has happened that would mean the salts your plant doesn't want just build up right? So does that mean you should somehow tweak the GH feeding schedule in order to protect against that salt build up as in figure out the right amounts of grow/micro/bloom so that your plant doesn't leave as many unwanted salts behind or you could flush with Flora kleen every few weeks? What do you plan to do to counter this?

 

[mikegreenthumb]

looks dank as fuck shady im a lil curious thou they kinda look undersized dont get me wrong looks dank as fuck but a lil under sized for week 6? im a lil curious as to what you yield is per plant and the size of those plants do you think they could be bulkier do i dont think you flower under mh but they kinda look like it idk just a thought

just mean you might wanna drop the light a lil more other small tweak they are all on point i mean look at the leafs other than that one tiny issue with zinc they are deep green no bending curling your on point bro lacking nothing over fed nothing just about perfect

it was just a thought
focus should be quality
im just curious i guess and dont always word things right

 

[CaliShark]

Damn nice buds shady! Look at that frost on the raskal og #3. Looks like you have me beat in the frost department this time around. I need to up my resin production like that. And i still love that BH x KM #3. Seriously man what is up with all the #3 ones gaining status of ultimate?!



That seems like quite the logical thought right there since GH's 3 part should contain practically all of the "necessary" elements for plant growth.

Since you think that a build up over time has happened that would mean the salts your plant doesn't want just build up right? So does that mean you should somehow tweak the GH feeding schedule in order to protect against that salt build up as in figure out the right amounts of grow/micro/bloom so that your plant doesn't leave as many unwanted salts behind or you could flush with Flora kleen every few weeks? What do you plan to do to counter this?

I think salt build up is going to occur anyway, I think that's why it's important to give a nice flush once in a while. I don't believe Shady flushes much.

Shit's looking DANK Shady, nice work bro.