How can I organically raise my ph of my water?

  • Thread starter GrimloxK
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
G

GrimloxK

259
16
Bubbling tap water is a waste in my opinion. I have heard from many reputable sources that bubbling tap water for even 5 days does not in fact remove chlorine nor chloramine.

I do like to pump air into my res using and air pump and air stones before watering as I feel the oxygenated water is appreciated by the plants.

I use R/O water myself and love it. I have a friend who does just fine though with striaght tap water. Many Organic gurus will tell you its not truely organic unless you are using R/O water though.

I hear you...a little update...

So I bought the 8 oz of protekt...and i'm glad I did...this thing really skyrockets ph. my 6.7 tap water jumped to 8.0 plus with only a couple drops.

If you ask me...i'm really tired of these "organic gurus" that have these 2 cents to be put into every aspect of the grow. I mean I could say that if you wanted to go real organic just use rain water or natural creek/spring water.

I feel that the more i'm trying to go organic, the more these organic know-it-alls make me not want to join the fray. I feel you can only do as much as you can at the time...nothing more, nothing less.
 
C

captaincaveman

5
1
i have the same problem and i just use botanicares silica blast to raise the ph . its cheap and it makes for thicker steams.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
Bubbling tap water is a waste in my opinion. I have heard from many reputable sources that bubbling tap water for even 5 days does not in fact remove chlorine nor chloramine.
Seriously? I can dispel that myth, and further clarify it for you. First, for chlorine (Cl) to offgas, you don't even need to bubble it, you only need to leave the body of water exposed to open air for about 24hrs. You can get a test kit and test this out for yourself, but I can also assure you that if it weren't true, fishkeepers wouldn't have been using this method for decades upon decades. Assuming you have some acuity left in your sense of smell (mine's compromised) then you can also simply use the smell test. If you smell Cl, it's still there.

Chloramine is a different beast, it's NHCl (chlorine bonded with ammonia) and that bond needs to be chemically broken. Most commonly used product in places like fish shops and public aquariums is dry sodium thiosulfate, which breaks the bond, dechlorinates and leaves the ammonia as a residue. Again, you can pick up test kits to determine for yourself how and that this does indeed work.

So, in short, aeration or just leaving in an open container allows Cl to outgas, but does nothing for NHCl.
I do like to pump air into my res using and air pump and air stones before watering as I feel the oxygenated water is appreciated by the plants.

I use R/O water myself and love it. I have a friend who does just fine though with striaght tap water. Many Organic gurus will tell you its not truely organic unless you are using R/O water though.
Another myth is that the air bubbles that are passing through the water column are, in fact, what is aerating the water (which really means helping or even forcing the O2/CO2 exchange to occur). First, it is only at the water's surface that this exchange normally happens (outside of a venturi). Second, even if using wood blocks as the 'stone', the kind that create superfine bubbles, usually the surface area is completely insufficient as to allow much of a gas exchange. What is really happening is that the bubbles are creating surface turbulence, and it is by this action that the gas exchange occurs on scale.

If they've appointed themselves guru, perhaps they should be questioned. I think everyone should be questioned, though.
 
T

TheIronLung317

248
18
Nice..but if you don't mind me asking what do you use to ph your water past week 4 of flowering?

Could I use pro-tekt throughout the whole life cycle? even if it's only to ph?

Ironlung...i'm not using RO I just switched to my regular 'ol tap water. It's ph is 6.7. I leave the water out for atleast 36 hours....when you say bubble what do you mean?

That's some pretty neutral Ph for tap water. Here where I live the Ph for tap is @ 8.0. So what I do is mix my nutes in a 5 gallon bucket the day before the feed. I place an airstone that's attached to a pump. My Ph drops to around high 5's to low 6's initially. The next day the Ph goes back up. If the Ph then is too high I add a little more nute. If its too low I just add more tap water. I always add less nutes than the bottles recommends so I can add more if I need to. If the girls want more food I can feed more frequently since I'm always giving them less.
 
T

TheIronLung317

248
18
I like to use organic nutes. One reason I like to bubble the water is to oxygenate the water for two reasons. One is for feeding the soil oxygen rich water, and two because I like to have beneficial bacterias always present in the water. Keeping the water aerated will Allow the benies to become active and start reacting with the nutes. This way when I feed my plants they are getting food and live beneficial organisms to help them out.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
i start out w/ 7.0- 7.2 ROd. depending upon soil pH/drift I tweak the solution i'm adding to land in the 5.7-7.0 range- usually towards the acidic side because 2 of my my Ca sources release slowly. A good container will stabilize at 6 on it's own. The up-down can usually can be achieved by nutes alone but if it needs some more punch:
Cold Pressed Cider Vinegar (if you just had a good month;-)
Citric Acid- I have a 10# bag, food grade that I got from a restaurant supplier for less than $15 as I recall. I'm 61. Should last me the rest of my life.
Dolomite as previously mentioned works fast.
Mined Silica and trace from colloidial clay deposit slower.

Last night I wanted a Ca boost on a few plants, pHd the RO water w/ citric acid to 4.5 because I knew if I added the cup of dolomite I wanted in my solution, it would give me the concentration I wanted and that the pH will be at 6.0 when I walk in today after it bubbled overnight.

Baking Soda- not on topic- just recieved this in email from friend today- don't think he'll mind if i share it so... another use for sodium bicarbonate-

View attachment bakingsoda.pdf

Potassium Bicarbonate- researching
 
CrippledArcher

CrippledArcher

348
28
Well I think that about sums it up. Keep doing what works, aerating tap water, insert lime add all nutes end up right at 6.3 -6.8 every time. Know I she how the ladies got shocked giving them nutes at 5.1 -5.5 before purchasing digital PH meter :sign0065: If it is a little High I just add a little trinity and it's dialed in !
 
ShutUpDonny

ShutUpDonny

107
18
Having just learned this the somewhat hard way, I wanted to remind everyone not to be a Donny, and to let their solution sit for awhile after adjusting pH with dolomite (and maybe with anything else for all I know). I mixed up a gallon of 5.7, mixed a tablespoon of dolo into a separate pint of RO, dumped maybe a third of it into the main solution, and BAM! - pH of 8.5 10 minutes later.

In retrospect I should have been skeptical when the pint of dolomite water initially pH'ed at 7.3. I was too busy being nervous about mixing my first-ever plant food to pay proper attention. Stupidly, I tested it right after mixing in the lime and didn't give it enough time to integrate. Same thing again when I tested the solution immediately after dumping in the lime water. The only thing that saved me was a 10 minute phone call which kept me from applying the nutes right away. When I hung up and luckily tested it again I was astounded at the difference. Never again.

Chemical reactions aren't necessarily quick, and anything worth doing is worth taking time on. Also, take lots of notes and don't answer the freakin phone in the midst of chemistry projects! Glad I didn't have to kill my seedlings to figure that one out...
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
Chloramine is a different beast, it's NHCl (chlorine bonded with ammonia) and that bond needs to be chemically broken. Most commonly used product in places like fish shops and public aquariums is dry sodium thiosulfate, which breaks the bond, dechlorinates and leaves the ammonia as a residue. Again, you can pick up test kits to determine for yourself how and that this does indeed work.

So, in short, aeration or just leaving in an open container allows Cl to outgas, but does nothing for NHCl.

Another myth is that the air bubbles that are passing through the water column are, in fact, what is aerating the water (which really means helping or even forcing the O2/CO2 exchange to occur). First, it is only at the water's surface that this exchange normally happens (outside of a venturi). Second, even if using wood blocks as the 'stone', the kind that create superfine bubbles, usually the surface area is completely insufficient as to allow much of a gas exchange. What is really happening is that the bubbles are creating surface turbulence, and it is by this action that the gas exchange occurs on scale.

If they've appointed themselves guru, perhaps they should be questioned. I think everyone should be questioned, though.
Great post Seamaiden. Dodged over the NHCl, (didn't sink in) first time around. My water- a mix of sources in a seaside, agricultural area- needs to be heavily sedated and NHCl is a big part of the cocktail. I obviously RO my water but was wondering if sodium thiosulfate might a good idea in addition?

Chemical reactions aren't necessarily quick, and anything worth doing is worth taking time on. Also, take lots of notes and don't answer the freakin phone in the midst of chemistry projects! Glad I didn't have to kill my seedlings to figure that one out...
Donny- thx for share. Exactly what I did before I got more patience going and what I still do when I'm "in a hurry."
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
I would think that going through the RO membrane and carbon filters would have pulled that NHCl out of the water column, Ganja. You may want to test it, but aren't you culturing microbes successfully using that water? If so, they're as good as a canary in a coalmine, IMO. Just like using sharks, skates, rays, sponges and sea squirts as a gauge of water quality.
 
Growster

Growster

62
8
I would think that going through the RO membrane and carbon filters would have pulled that NHCl out of the water column, Ganja. You may want to test it, but aren't you culturing microbes successfully using that water? If so, they're as good as a canary in a coalmine, IMO. Just like using sharks, skates, rays, sponges and sea squirts as a gauge of water quality.

Thanks Seamaiden... Lol @ The Canary, does that mean when the water starts to stink from dead microbes that he should run from it? Haha.

Would anybody know if using vinegar as somewhat of a "pH down" can in any way hurt / harm your plants?

I've searched everywhere on this and can't find anything on the matter...

Any input would be greatly appreciated... Thanks!
 
CrippledArcher

CrippledArcher

348
28
Wouldn't a few drop of lemon juice or roots trinity be a better choice ? Never have used vinegar before always the above mentioned
 
Growster

Growster

62
8
Wouldn't a few drop of lemon juice or roots trinity be a better choice ? Never have used vinegar before always the above mentioned

Yes, lemon juice would have been a much better choice, but I had none and living out in the middle of nowhere with no vehicle left me with one choice, white vinegar lol... I used the white vinegar and adjusted my pH to an ideal level, but I am afraid to use it on my plants until I have some advice on the matter from more experienced growers haha.
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
When I was really broke, (rather than just broke) I used white, distilled vinegar and quite honestly, I didn't see any detrimental effects. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't have had a better response had I been able to afford cold pressed apple cider vinegar. I have lemon trees and used lemons until I ran out. Nowadays, I use food grade citric acid which is what lemons give you. Depending upon how rough your water supply is and the size of your grow, you can go through lemons pretty fast.
 
Growster

Growster

62
8
When I was really broke, (rather than just broke) I used white, distilled vinegar and quite honestly, I didn't see any detrimental effects. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't have had a better response had I been able to afford cold pressed apple cider vinegar. I have lemon trees and used lemons until I ran out. Nowadays, I use food grade citric acid which is what lemons give you. Depending upon how rough your water supply is and the size of your grow, you can go through lemons pretty fast.
Thank you Ganja, that is the same exact reason why I am using distilled vinegar, and thank you as well, original poster for allowing me to also gain some knowledge from your thread. :)
 
GanjaGardener

GanjaGardener

848
63
I would think that going through the RO membrane and carbon filters would have pulled that NHCl out of the water column, Ganja. You may want to test it, but aren't you culturing microbes successfully using that water? If so, they're as good as a canary in a coalmine, IMO. Just like using sharks, skates, rays, sponges and sea squirts as a gauge of water quality.
True Seamaiden. Common sense should have been enough to answer my question but know very little about chloramines and have never used sodium thiosulfate so was just covering the bases. My ROd water supply has sort of a sulfur-methane- aged shit smell- sometimes it smells like vomit. My canary died last week. Does that mean that I should run?
 
G

GrimloxK

259
16
Hey buds I just wanted to do an update....I effed up royally.

This past week was not any good to my plant. I couldn't get my ph up past 5.4 and my plant "looked" like it was starving so I just gave her her first feeding of nutes hoping the soil would buffer it and it would be okay....WRONG!

Plant was super droopy, leaves were yellowing, spots were forming, newer growth was yellow....I really thought my plant was dying.

Well now I switched her from a 1 gallon plastic container to a 3 gallon smart pot and I had to actually ph down my regular tap water with some fresh lemon juice today to get it to 6.1 and I gave her a slight flush.

Hopefully she'll buck up and I can get her back to normal. I'm hoping I can salvage her and give her some extra veg time to recoup.

Growing pains...literally.

Also I just wanted to ask...if I don't have an RO system is their a cheaper alternative for the budget grower to filter out that chloramine?

and also...pellet/pebble size dolomite lime is not for the indoor grower...at all. My mistake but you live and you learn...
 
CrippledArcher

CrippledArcher

348
28
Man I seen this commercial the other day and it caught my eye, Wondering how this would work for the small time farmer
 
G

GrimloxK

259
16
thats a good find...but does it also take out the good stuff from the tap water?
 
Top Bottom