BHO by OGp, 1st crack at it.

[ogplatinum]

So today i picked up a glass piece to make BHO and a can of vector. First crack at it and with some tips from Crom I think I did a fine job...accept for slicing into my left thumb about .25 inchs with a straight razor making this really hard to type lol. I was to ancy while scraping lol!

So heres what i did...

30-35g's of bottom buds and sugary shake from my mentor grower and family member...Strain=Sour Goo (Sour D x Afgoo)

Chopped to a nice and fluffy texture, not to fine.
Fill glass piece.
Used some 120micron metal screen and 2 coffee filters for filtration.
Run that thane through there (think i might even get another can tomorrow and run it again, looks to still be some trichs n there!

Got my JUST boiling water for the first purge...After all butane is ran through I let it sit outside for a good ten mins while the oven is pre heating to 160-170 degrees.

Put the tray after all larger bubbles are popped in the oven for 10 mins...

After the 10 mins is up I put the pyrex on a skillet set at 200 degrees and began to whip the oil and get all the access butane out, after about 10 mins of whippin, let sit again and scrape!

It balled up into a nice semi malleable state, very stringy and sticky!

Smells like the material used with a lil more hashyness.

Feedback? This shit is strong too!

The pics go step by step, well sort of lol. Most of the inside purging isn't pictured, sorry guys.

Lemme know what you think, just got this BHO rig and i figure this will be the first of many runs!!! Good solid piece too for only 40!

 

[TreFarmer]

That last picture is crazy cool!! Beautiful ribbons;) Great pickup!! Can you get me a really good pic of the receptical at the top?

 

[ogplatinum]

That last picture is crazy cool!! Beautiful ribbons;) Great pickup!! Can you get me a really good pic of the receptical at the top?

Got you bro! And thanks for the support! My finger is killin me, but smokin on my first homemade errrrl is helpin! :sun

 

[GodZsoN]

I would have to say you did a very fine job.. FOR SURE.. That tube was a very nice pick up.. enjoy that shit bro

Take Care,

GodZsoN

 

[ogplatinum]

I would have to say you did a very fine job.. FOR SURE.. That tube was a very nice pick up.. enjoy that shit bro

Take Care,

GodZsoN

Thanks bro! Much appreciation!

:bong2:

 

[KILLERCHEF420]

:evilgrin0031: Nice job og that doesnt look bad by any means id dab that with you for sure lol take care brother and take one for me

PEACE
KILLERCHEF

 

[Graywolf]

Good first run bro! Looks good, how does it smell and taste?

I would repack it before running another can of butane.

 

[ogplatinum]

Good first run bro! Looks good, how does it smell and taste?

I would repack it before running another can of butane.

Smells very hashy, but still has the sour smell from the material used. I love it man, Its very potent too! tastes hashy, strong coffee with a lime. good shit.

as for consistency, its like shatter now, very hard. i wanted some more errrlllly type oil, but i figure ill only get better with practice!

 

[ogplatinum]

Going to go get another can of vector and run my tube again, filled it with a lil more fresh stuff but i feel like i should have used 2 to begin with. the can holds more than 28g's i feel an i can still see some trichs in there! i'll do a GOOOOD purge of the second run and be back with pics!

 

[DrCALIGREENTHUM]

Smells very hashy, but still has the sour smell from the material used. I love it man, Its very potent too! tastes hashy, strong coffee with a lime. good shit.

as for consistency, its like shatter now, very hard. i wanted some more errrlllly type oil, but i figure ill only get better with practice!

Good job first time ogp, if u want that softer texture like budder
Or some "play doh" wax drop your temps by 50% when your purging
Long slow low heat purge works best for me
When u say u put in the oven for 10 mins did you let it double broil
With the Pyrex? Try that on top of the stove with some Luke warm water for an hour, shouldn't be hot enough where you can't hold your finger in the water
For more than 10-15 sec.

Then try whipping it from there on a heat mat set at low 100-120
Take it off when your happy with it.
You'll get some REAL nice textures playing with that mEthod
Good luck bra

 

[blueburnsorange]

Congrats on your first run!!! Nice equipment choices too!

Here are a couple of suggestions, hopefully they will help in future runs...

1) that is a HUGE tube, looks roughly 2x as big as a Honey Bee extractor and a HB can hold up to 40g of material. You could fit a lot more in there per-run, which brings me to my next point...

2) the tighter it's packed, the more pressure. The more pressure, the better yield ratio of oil to starting material. You should be shooting for your oil to weight out at 15-20% of the starting material

3) don't grind or chop your material too much. The more you chop up, the more chlorophyll and other impurities get in the oil, making it greener and less tasty. With a tube that big, you can cram whole buds in there easily. The other advantage to this is that after the run, you can unpack and re-pack the one-used buds (breaking them down a little more this time, exposing new surfaces) and do a second run, getting more oil of out of the buds.

4) JUST BOILING water might still be too hot. Get a $10 cooking thermometer from Target and try to keep your water at 135-145F at all times. Your oven temp is perfect but I'd take that skillet down to 170F.

5) there is debate (I'm not taking sides here) that whipping your oil during the purge only further breaks up and traps the butane, making it harder to extract. Some people feel that budder is a result of butane and/or moisture being trapped in the oil. My only point is that you might want to try not whipping it to get a feel for the difference in the processing.

 

[ogplatinum]

Next time ill have 2 cans on hand, this tube still had some good errl left in it! Newer stuff is the lighter colored stuff on top of the rock hard shatter i made last night.

 

[MendoCruz]

Those bubbles are butane trying to escape. You need to purge that a lot longer if you want it purified. So many people try to whip or sun purge or just let it sit for a long period of time and that does not fully purge it. It takes a long slow heated purge to really purify it, whipping can help to purge, but a twenty minute whip is not sufficient. That is fact. Simple science. I would take a safety pin and scoop some out and light it on fire till it is all gone. I know that it will spark. I've been making this in large batches for over ten year and have tried almost everything to rush the process. The only way that I have found to purge is a long slow purge. Hit me up and I'll show you on my next run.

 

[squiggly]

5) there is debate (I'm not taking sides here) that whipping your oil during the purge only further breaks up and traps the butane, making it harder to extract. Some people feel that budder is a result of butane and/or moisture being trapped in the oil. My only point is that you might want to try not whipping it to get a feel for the difference in the processing.

To my eyes as an organic chemist the "budder" is nothing more than side reactions with terpenes and cannabinoids--in the form polymerizations, hydrations, oxidations, and epoxidations.

It is known that terpenes react very easily in open air--and as we all know whipping (when done in air) is nothing more than incorporating air into a medium. You can probably test this by splitting a batch of oil and whipping one in air, and using a stir bar to "whip" the other under vacuum (same temperature). You will still get some polymerizations potentially but not as likely as these typically happen with terpenes (and other alkenes) under increased, rather than reduced, pressure.

Furthermore you will have pulled proteins and amino acids out with an oil extraction, and these are known to react with oxygen containing terpenes. The list goes on an on.

Something that is important to understand is that C-C pi bonds (double bonds, but specifically the p orbitals of the "second" bond) are quite reactive--some of the most readily reacting materials on the planet excluding those which produce absolutely violent reactions (and some of these do as well). Addition reactions occur across these bonds with a litany of substances; In fact, additions across double bonds are what cause these chemicals to come to be in the first place (through many additions of isoprene units). Many times only a catalytic amount of a given impurity must be present to set off a polymerization chain reaction (not to be confused with PCR, polymerase chain reaction). Believe me when I say that I'm not overstating this.

I believe many of these terpenes actually self assemble and fold into their various odiferous forms during the curing process--this should demonstrate to you that these are reactive substances as these foldings and additions are non-enzymatic and occur spontaneously.

Furthermore, it would be expected that as you increase carbon chain length (polymerization takes care of this) and saturate carbon bonds (add across double bonds) you will expect to see oils become more opaque, and increasingly firm. This is, in fact, the precise difference between saturated fatty acids such as stearic acid (animal fat) and unsaturated fatty acids like oleic acid (olive oil).

Exposure to any of the following will more than likely lead into degradation/polymerization of terpenes through various pathways:

--Heat
--Oxidants (air)
--Acidic/basic conditions
--Free Radicals (atoms/molecules with an unpaired electron/open shell)


Even a single molecule of ozone can produce significant results with terpenes--leading into a long chain of possible side reactions.

It is almost certain that buddering is not desireable. I would more quickly smoke the butane than wonder about what chemicals I may have just produced by that process.

 

[squiggly]

You need to purge that a lot longer if you want it purified.

If you want to purge butane, you need to use a vacuum purge--no ifs ands or buts.

Despite whatever testing may be done, you likely leave trace amounts of butane in oil even purging under vacuum due to the kinetics of this application. It shouldn't be understated that butane is a non polar solvent which is heavier than air--for this application it is included as an impurity in a viscous non-polar oil.

The 29.9mmHg calculation is likely off due to not allowing for the Van der Waals interactions between butane and the non-polar extract. Even with the best equipment which isn't prohibitively expensive for a medical application (available at Dow chemical and the like) will likely leave some trace butane--that should give an idea what we're dealing with here.

I think everyone basically knows they aren't getting it all out, but those who don't should. We're talking about removing butane within a tolerance, not removing butane entirely. I don't think there's been much acceptance of that within the BHO world--it is important that we all agree on the scope of discussion before deciding what method is "best".

I think Aristotle said that in a less paraphrased way.

 

[ogplatinum]

WOW, thank you squig for a very informative post(s)! +1!!

 

[ogplatinum]

So i decided i wasnt really feeling the consistency of my errl and after mendos comment about the thane still bein in there i decided to play around and try and purge it some more!

Got it in a mini double boil at about 150 f for 15-20 mins, whipping it on and off, lots of bubbles surfaced!
Then i popped the double boil in the oven at 170 f for 30 mins, this is what i came out with!

 

[DrCALIGREENTHUM]

=

It is almost certain that buddering is not desireable. I would more quickly smoke the butane than wonder about what chemicals I may have just produced by that process.

Can you please collaborate :dull

great job og that double boil method for an hour looks like it did you justice

 

[squiggly]

Can you please collaborate :dull

I'm sure you mean elaborate, and so I shall. :sun

Polymerization is a process by which monomers (similar subunits) are linked together to form a polymer (poly meaning many and mono meaning one).

Terpenes are known to polymerize under certain conditions. Most alkenes (C-C double bond is an alkene functional group) are fairly reactive, but terpenes are made up of special monomers called isoprene, or isoprenoid, units (isoprene is short for isoterpene).

Under various conditions, not the least of which being presence of air and heat--previously stable terpenes may begin to break apart/link together in a way not dissimilar to the linking together of isoprenoid units. A polymerization of polymers if you will.

In addition to this terpenes are known to react with various compounds to give new compounds (in the case of ozone for example). Google terpenes ozone and do some digging if you want to see how complex this can get in terms of side reactions--this reaction can give a hydroxyl radical which can go on to do all types of nasty shit.

In general I'm saying stuff doesn't just change color and consistency from losing less than a mL of solvent and a little heat. A reaction is occuring.

In terms of elaborating on the possible danger/non-danger. I can't. No one really can--this stuff amounts to a chemical soup in terms of how many compounds are present. You get to doing side reactions/polymerizations in a chemical soup and you could end up with some fairly terrible results. As a for instance, adding only 3 reactants in a research lab once left me with maybe 100 different compounds at the end of a reaction where an impurity had caused side reactions to take place. The NMR looked black clear across!

Now consider that there may already be 100's of compounds present in an extract.

I'm not trying to say its certainly unsafe--but it could potentially be creating carcinogens and other nasty things. I'm ultimately saying sans a lab and lots of fancy testing we won't know or even come close to knowing. Even then this could be on a plant to plant basis in terms of deciding whether this process is safe. Each plant has different relative levels of terpenes and cannabinoids and different terpene profiles. That changes reaction conditions and confounds analysis.

This could also be a hydration reaction, as some terpenes are known to complex with water to create--I believe--a trihydrate. This would be considerably less dangerous. Testing this might be easier. Weigh a beaker (with stirrer and oil already in) on an analytical scale. Whip up a batch. Re-weigh.

There should be a noticeable difference in weight if hydration is occuring. (depending on the mechanism the same will be true for oxidation)

TLDR:

You don't know what that is.

It looks like a polymerization/side reaction to me.

 

[MendoCruz]

Regardless of everything you just said. Every "budder" "toast" "gold flake" and "amber glass" that I've got my hands on still sparks. I may not use vac purg but my oil does not spark. There are trace amount, but never enought to cause flare up. That is my only point to all these other methods.