Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[fatman41]

@ Cap hey cap can u post ur current bloom mix with jacks?ty in advance

 

[420Clones]

Nutrient profile graphs

Thanks for creating this thread!

Going with Jacks or something similar for hydro and Jacks classic for soil is a goal.

To my understanding there are levels of nutrients required in certain stages of growth. Each has a range of forgiveness in both their ratio to one another and their amounts.

H&G makes their nutrients for TAP water (according to their FAQ) so if using RO what would I add to it to get one of the profiles listed at Cannastats? Cal Mag Plus, GH CaMg, Uncle Johns, Tap water, Epsom...

Is there a nutrient profile for Aqua Flakes A&B separately?

With Flora Duo 15A 5B growth is leggy. When compared to Mel Frank and MJ Handbook profiles its best match is 6A 11B Lucas profile or Mel Franks Low Light Veg

 

[Capulator]

@ Cap hey cap can u post ur current bloom mix with jacks?ty in advance

Post 438 of this thread.

 

[420Clones]

Cap,
Is Jacks 1g per teaspoon?

Where to get N P K Mg Ca for each of the following from your formula?
mono potassium phosphate @ 0.15 grams/ gal (0-52-34 per gram?)
Potassium sulfate @ 0.16 grams / gal
Jacks hydro @ 3 grams / gal
Jacks MOST @ 0.1 grams / gal (might go to 0.2)
Epsom @ 0.6 grams/ gal
Cal Nitrate @ 2.7 grams per gallon
CaCl2 @ 0.1 grams / gal

 

[Capulator]

Cap,
Is Jacks 1g per teaspoon?

Where to get N P K Mg Ca for each of the following from your formula?
mono potassium phosphate @ 0.15 grams/ gal (0-52-34 per gram?)
Potassium sulfate @ 0.16 grams / gal
Jacks hydro @ 3 grams / gal
Jacks MOST @ 0.1 grams / gal (might go to 0.2)
Epsom @ 0.6 grams/ gal
Cal Nitrate @ 2.7 grams per gallon
CaCl2 @ 0.1 grams / gal

I think a gram is less than a teaspoon (mayeb a quarter teaspoon?). You would need to weigh it or re read this thread. I know its somewhere in here.

When I talk about NPK etc ppm/ratios.. I am talking about ELEMENTAL ppm, not percentage listed on the bag (0-52-34). Actual available ppm is different from listed percentages.

If you go back through this thread and study it, all of your questions will be answered. If you still have a question PM me.

 

[Capulator]

here are the Purple Kush (real cut) on my modified jacks veg formula. They are quite possibly the healthiest looking plants I have grown in hydro. This pic was taken at day 6 of flip.

 

[desertsquirrel]

I think a gram is less than a teaspoon (mayeb a quarter teaspoon?). You would need to weigh it or re read this thread. I know its somewhere in here.

When I talk about NPK etc ppm/ratios.. I am talking about ELEMENTAL ppm, not percentage listed on the bag (0-52-34). Actual available ppm is different from listed percentages.

If you go back through this thread and study it, all of your questions will be answered. If you still have a question PM me.

volume and weight are relative to the density of the substance being weighed. A tsp of copper and a tsp of epsom obviously have different weights.

Volume is a poor calculator for dry salts, always weigh them when possible.

 

[Capulator]

volume and weight are relative to the density of the substance being weighed. A tsp of copper and a tsp of epsom obviously have different weights.

Volume is a poor calculator for dry salts, always weigh them when possible.

I agree, but the question was how much does jacks weigh. If you have jacks and dont have a scale you can still wing it with teaspoons. I highly recommend a scale. I have a ohaus dial o gram. Love that thing.

 

[raincheck]

here are the Purple Kush (real cut) on my modified jacks veg formula. They are quite possibly the healthiest looking plants I have grown in hydro. This pic was taken at day 6 of flip.

Very interesting setup cap! looks clean. Are you in day 6 of flower?

 

[raincheck]

I'm just taking a wild guess but you are probably using tap water & 250PPM of Jacks? Or what dry nute are you using?

If you are at all implying jacks & ro at 250PPM you will without a doubt be killing plants left and right.

Here's the VEG recipe I'm working with at the moment with Jacks for moms & those that are rooted.

Feeding: Stardawg, Chem-T, Harlequin, Omrita RX, & LA Con.

Hydro: 1.0EC, .1 EC Mag, .5EC of Cal-Nitrate.

Flower:

Hydro: .7EC, .2EC Mag, .5EC Cal-Nitrate.

From my experience anything that is heavily based around Chem needs a lot of Calcium and mag. I literally can't feed the Chem-T enough, and the StarDawg you could pour calcium all over the leaves and it would still ask for me.

Harlequin, Omrita, & LA con grow themselves with the mix.

Goal for 2012 is to mix the StarDawg & Chem-T w/ the Harlequin & Omrita. High CBD's especially from the Omrita are very relaxing. But they need the refinement of the Chem line IMO.

I think your formula should be based on how often you feed, climate, and your media is also important to your EC levels. I dont think people should post their ECs without that information. It can be very misleading.

If anyone doesn't understand this I can explain further..

 

[Capulator]

That pic at day 6 flower. 1.8 ec. Rockwool croutons. Top drip/ebb flow/nft. Rh is 60. Temp 82. Co2 1000ppm.

 

[Capulator]

lovin the croutons North. I can buy by the box. gives a little more air int eh rhizosphere.

Gonna try to run a test soon in my system lava vs. hydroton vs croutons..

if you compare cannabis with tomatoes (which has been done in the past), the plants are down with even higher EC's than what I am using. Also, more light and you need to feed more. I know you like the burn and thats why you use low ppms.

Of course its all relative to what system you are running. I would think that the more you can push your plants without seeing ANY signs of lock out, burn, necrosis, curl etc.. the better as far as performance is concerned.

Snowblind using jacks does not flush at all and claims a clean burn and great taste.

I believe the key really is to keep P down, and taper off N after stretch.. From what I read that is what leads to a white ash.

 

[TylerDurden119]

I believe the key really is to keep P down, and taper off N after stretch.. From what I read that is what leads to a white ash.

+1

i've been thinking growing with a dialed nutrient profile is whats gona take my plants to the next level. yield, smell, taste, high, r all gona b better. Basically unlocking the genes true potential.

i duno, maybe i'm crazy but i swear this is like the holy grail for us. take the same two grows n switch out the most expensive store bought shit and i'd bet the farm a dialed "homemade" nutrient profile would smash it

this is a game changer.

i don't wana say this out loud but this knowledge is sooo valuable i don't think people realize. It became clear to me when i started doing research on the bloom formula for the six pack. It wasn't published anywhere on the net, or atleast i couldn't find it. i found the veg formula but no bloom. i wondered why? the only reason i could come up with is its too valuable to give out. I'm not sayin that that bloom formula is the holy grail just that clearly this kind of information(proper nutrient profile) is invaluable to us.

n when I can I'm gona be sending a thankyou to some of the peeps who played a role in bringing all this info to light. who knows, my six pack formula mighta sat on my shelf indefinitely and possibly been forgotten had i not read this.

 

[raincheck]

That pic at day 6 flower. 1.8 ec. Rockwool croutons. Top drip/ebb flow/nft. Rh is 60. Temp 82. Co2 1000ppm.

A VERY informative post. Interesting setup, very interesting. Where do you use the lava rocks? What made you want to go 1000ppm of co2 vs spurr recommending 800ppm?

A question for you..What techniques do you use to find out how much EC to increase or decrease by?

How often do you water in the environment?

 

[Capulator]

A VERY informative post. Interesting setup, very interesting. Where do you use the lava rocks? What made you want to go 1000ppm of co2 vs spurr recommending 800ppm?

A question for you..What techniques do you use to find out how much EC to increase or decrease by?

How often do you water in the environment?

I was using lava rocks (red lava bought at the local building supply, the 3/8" is the best) as a media. Its cheap @ about $5/bag. I soak it in a trachcan full of 10% bleach solution and then rinse and use. I got turned on to croutons recently and I am just trying it out. MY best run to date was with lava on a 24/7 drip. I ran blueberry and all the colas were bigger than my arm. The roots go through all the little holes, it holds pretty much the same O2 as aeroponics IMHO. Also, bugs have a hell of a time reproducing in it when it is on a 24/7 top feed.

Problem with lava is if a pump goes out (or you forget to plug it back in as in my case usually), it is not forgiving. I figure the rockwool will hold its moisture a little longer and may save me from disaster some day.

Right now I am 5 on 20 off. top feed. 24/7 river down the tube via around 600 gph. Then I have a secondary pump that pumps 1 x per hour so that the "tide" rises to a second overflo. its all experimental. I have the pumps on different breakers. Trying to make it run itself for a couple weeks so I can take a break.


The technique I use for EC is experimentation. Run the same strains over and over and take lots of notes. Try to change one variable at a time. I mostly just play around. Sometimes I get burned, sometimes I am rewarded. Either way, I write down what I did and reflect on it during each grow. Dont make the same mistake twice and when you find something that works for you, do it again.


The CO2 was a compromise between spurr and the masses. :mmm

 

[raincheck]

I was using lava rocks (red lava bought at the local building supply, the 3/8" is the best) as a media. Its cheap @ about $5/bag. I soak it in a trachcan full of 10% bleach solution and then rinse and use. I got turned on to croutons recently and I am just trying it out. MY best run to date was with lava on a 24/7 drip. I ran blueberry and all the colas were bigger than my arm. The roots go through all the little holes, it holds pretty much the same O2 as aeroponics IMHO. Also, bugs have a hell of a time reproducing in it when it is on a 24/7 top feed.

Problem with lava is if a pump goes out (or you forget to plug it back in as in my case usually), it is not forgiving. I figure the rockwool will hold its moisture a little longer and may save me from disaster some day.

Right now I am 5 on 20 off. top feed. 24/7 river down the tube via around 600 gph. Then I have a secondary pump that pumps 1 x per hour so that the "tide" rises to a second overflo. its all experimental. I have the pumps on different breakers. Trying to make it run itself for a couple weeks so I can take a break.


The technique I use for EC is experimentation. Run the same strains over and over and take lots of notes. Try to change one variable at a time. I mostly just play around. Sometimes I get burned, sometimes I am rewarded. Either way, I write down what I did and reflect on it during each grow. Dont make the same mistake twice and when you find something that works for you, do it again.


The CO2 was a compromise between spurr and the masses. :mmm

Wow so if I am understanding your setup correctly you in essence have a undercurrent/table ebb n grow system. Your secondary pump is only 1gph? That is interestingly low, care to explain the reasoning for such a small pump over a larger pump, say 100 gph?

Your EC are really high for a constant drip system. You have if I understand correctly, top drip into the canisters and then the roots grow through the croutons into the bottom of the canisters where there is some type of screen or netting in which the roots pass through into a river of hydroponic solution. The top drip system in powered by pressurized pvc via the 600 gph pump likely inside of a 75 gallon + rez into the table? Then all the meanwhile the smaller inlet for the 4*8 table I am basing all this off of while the 1 gph pump fills from the rez into the table through the smaller inlet until it reaches the upper overflow also located on the table maybe directly across from the inlet?

 

[Capulator]

No.

The top drip is on an 1800 GPH pump. It has a bypass valve in the res. WHen it comes on, it stirs the water (5 minutes every 20 minutes)

The second pump (1800 GPH) runs 24 hours, and pumps in water from the bottom, this water is 24/7 running down one end of the pipe, to the other end where there is an overflow that can handle draining 600 gph (there are three rows so 1800/3 is 600 minus some loss in friction from a few pvc elbows).

The third pump is connected to the same line as the second. It is also 1800 GPH. when it kicks on 1 x per hour, it makes each rows water travel at 1200 GPH, which is too much for the first overflow to handle, so the water rises until it hits the second overflow.

So yes it is a combination shallow water culture, NFT, ebb flow, drip, hybrid. The reason for this is because I lost whole rows before by being a dumbass and forgettign to plug pumps in. This way if I forget a pump there are still 2 others taking care of business. Also, I cant imagine a system with more water movement than this one. There is a shitload air moving through those pipes. Im actually going to pipe in fresh air, so that the pipes are not accessing the CO2 enriched room air, just the air from my res room.

 

[Quantrill]

Great thread!

 

[raincheck]

No.

The top drip is on an 1800 GPH pump. It has a bypass valve in the res. WHen it comes on, it stirs the water (5 minutes every 20 minutes)

The second pump (1800 GPH) runs 24 hours, and pumps in water from the bottom, this water is 24/7 running down one end of the pipe, to the other end where there is an overflow that can handle draining 600 gph (there are three rows so 1800/3 is 600 minus some loss in friction from a few pvc elbows).

The third pump is connected to the same line as the second. It is also 1800 GPH. when it kicks on 1 x per hour, it makes each rows water travel at 1200 GPH, which is too much for the first overflow to handle, so the water rises until it hits the second overflow.

So yes it is a combination shallow water culture, NFT, ebb flow, drip, hybrid. The reason for this is because I lost whole rows before by being a dumbass and forgettign to plug pumps in. This way if I forget a pump there are still 2 others taking care of business. Also, I cant imagine a system with more water movement than this one. There is a shitload air moving through those pipes. Im actually going to pipe in fresh air, so that the pipes are not accessing the CO2 enriched room air, just the air from my res room.

I see. Excuse my imagination, it was fun to imagine how it might go off your pictures and description. I assume you aren't running all those bennies and the stuff that goes along with them (humics, sugar, etc.) correct? are you setup on a 4x8 table? How large is the rez? What is your target plant size with your system the way it is setup or the size with the most efficiency (I am thinking sog)? I am thinking the biggest limiting factor in your setup is the amount of space for the roots is this correct? Are you worried about anything building up in your PVC pipes over time? I remember I think it was ttystik did something with PVC pipes too but they ended up being a PITA to clean to he abandoned his project.

"this water is 24/7 running down one end of the pipe"
Are you referring to the 1 in. plastic inlets typically found on EF tables? Are the drains the same 1 in. drains typically found on EF tables (i.e. botanicare ) Are you running the water across the 4 ft. cross section of the 4x8 or across the 8 ft. section?

"so the water rises until it hits the second overflow. "
Is the second overflow stacked/mounted on top of the first overflow?

What is your plan on piping in fresh air? How will you keep the co2 from combining into your fresh air?

How many gallons of water do you have circulating during a run?

Seems like a cool all around system. How do you like it against your lava rocks compared at the same time period? Would you mind explaining how your lava rock setup was ran? Its always interesting to hear about new setups, helps stir the creative imagination.

Thanks for taking some time to read the questions and props to you for some great ingenuity and great effort.

 

[tokinupon1]

Hey cap plants look great man. Have you been using your new mix in flower yet? I'm three weeks in flower with a full jacks grow and plants are happy as hell. Cannot thank everyone in this thread enough.