Obama Campaign Begins

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squiggly

squiggly

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Do what you will--but do it with your brain.



It goes without saying that those who lean to the right won't have anything nice to say here; but, for those of you who lean left, or to the center, I'd ask that you to maybe hear a little bit of what I think has been "wrong" with the left for a long time now.

I'll need to start by very quickly stating what I think is wrong with the right, and that will be easy:

The right is convinced they've got the answer--and that it is pretty much infallible. That's really all I've got to say about that.

The left, if we can call it that, has been ailing for some time--and I think that part of that is the failure to recognize that we aren't in a debate over finding the perfect answer. We are in a debate about making the best decisions along the way. Best doesn't always mean right, and we aren't perfect.

The right takes a huge amount of its ideology (these days--it was not always so) from a document (the Bible) which they believe to be perfect in every way. I don't fault them for this because it is a tenant of their religion and they'd be hypocritical not to view it this way. That being said--those of us who do not believe they've got the ultimate answer need to be aware of the fact that it is their intention to transform America into one that reflects God's perfect plan for all of us.

Down to business. The problem we are facing is that the "left" shouldn't really be called the left anymore. It's not about finances at this point even. What we should be identifying ourselves as is ANYONE BUT THE DUDES DESCRIBED ABOVE. The right is very much united in their vision for the country--they are a force to be reckoned with. The "left" however is poorly organized and barely mobilized if at all. The right has the "perfect plan" that everyone can believe in--and so they do.

On the "left" we don't have that plan--because we know, or believe, one doesn't exist. We know that we can only do our best. That is much more difficult to believe in and get behind. The people who occupy the fringe of conspiracy theories and the like--who claim that all politicians are puppets or "its all the same", these people tend to fall in line ideologically more with people on the "left" than on the right. This is very damaging though--the cynicism and failure to choose the better option rather than the perfect one has sunk democrats more times than not.

What we need, once and for all, is for people to realize that you're either with us or you are helping them.Who seems crazier to you? What I offer is not something perfect, maybe not even something good--but it is something better. That much is certain.

We can't get to good until we go with better than bad--even if it still tastes a little bit like shit in our mouths.

I guess what I'm saying is--the country is going to fall the fuck in on us and all around us. Suck it the fuck up and do what's right. Do not let these people legislate the bible and install complicated financial instruments essentially accessible only to them by which they may leech off the economy of this great country so that they may re-route the funds to furthering "god's plan for America"--a vicious cycle to be sure. The "right" or the wrong as I usually feel like calling them, have been doing this for almost a century now--and it's about time they got their comeuppance.

If you don't want to see, in a future America (think distant future), the full realization of a Christianity-based version of Sharia law--then you really need to consider which way we should be attempting to steer the boat right now. It is clear by now which way the boat will be steered if we are unable to right it. The right is playing a long game--and we're sitting here bickering amongst ourselves and letting it happen.

We are letting them take it right out from under us--and that is a conspiracy theory which doesn't take all that much of a stretch to believe in, they'll tell you to your face if you ask them they think this is God's America and this country was founded for and by him. It's not much of a theory really. It's more just a legit conspiracy.

You either stand up against it or you are complicit with it. That's my view--I'm happy to hear yours. I can tell you one party that doesn't listen to views, though. The party who's already got all of their views figured out--the great and infallible GOP.
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

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Let me be one of the first to say I will NEVER cast a vote for barack obama,EVER,Having said that neither will i cast one for mitt romney as he is just like obama,how do you think he became governor of one of the most left leaning states in the country?I am tired of candidates who do not represent me or my interests and who lie through their teeth to get a vote,no matter the party.I dont think its right for you to say"if your not with us you are helping them"frankly its none of your business what I or anyone else do with OUR votes,Worry about what you will do with your own.We should all be free to make up our own minds and vote our conscience not what some person on the news or the internet tells us to.I would never dream of telling someone how i think they should cast their vote or vote for someone just because they are the same party as myself but instead i will vote for the person i beleive to be the most honest and whose beleifs identify with mine.This kind of party line bullshit is what has gotten us to where we are today,VOTE FOR WHO YOU THINK MOST REPRESENTS YOU NOT FOR WHO YOUR TOLD TOO.First it was "CHANGE" now its "FORWARD",Which fucking spin doctor advertising agency do you think came up with that one?
 
B

Bluenote

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Well FW was the first to say it , but I'm right there with him. I categorically REFUSE to vote for the available selection of thieves and con-artists.

It's LLOOONNGGGG past time for us all to quit settling for " better than the other guy". Along with voting purely along party lines. NEITHER party gives a brassplated f*** for the common man in this country any longer , they exist to line the pockets of the corporations that pull their strings.

And YES the country is/will implode economically , which of course will lead to civil unrest , thus giving the PTB the excuse they need to implement martial law. And unfortunately for us their will be VERY little difference conceptually between Sharia Law and the laws here as they will be enforced after martial law is implemented.

Where I completely disagree with Squiggly is in the concept that the Democrats are some sort of " Savior" , they aren't , they're merely a different bunch of thieves with a different moniker and ***exactly*** the same agenda.
 
budfriend

budfriend

234
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Banking is buying Obama and Romney. News media makes it appear Ron Paul cant win in order to create the impression that a vote for Ron Paul is a wasted vote. The banks own the media, literally.

That being said these people crave power. How could you vote for someone again that lied about almost everything they said. OBAMA kept the same policies that Bush started. WHAT CHANGED???

Right and left are designed to divide the people.

Look where Obama's cabinet appoitments came from squigley. Look it up.
 
budfriend

budfriend

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I kind of just watched that video. I guess it works for people trained to get there info from watching tv like most americians.

Jobs- they changed the requirements and changed the old ways job figure were reported. they also did this in canada and the us with safe radiaion levels. Because of Fukasima both contries were getting unsafe reading so the increased the number making it reportable safe now.

His job creation- Come on now. have you not heard about the jobs he created at a crazy costs to the americian taxpayers.

Technology inovation- come now you must of read how almost all of his solar engery investments have gone bankrupt. Which I might add that these people donated large sums for his elections.

Markets increase- yes they did make the markets increase by doubling or trippling the money supply. I cant keep track any more. wait its tripple cause they did QE1, QE2 and QE3 is on the table. The gain is artificial.

Obama is on track to break Bushes exective order record. Meaning he creates law the elected congress won't pass all by himself just like a KING.

Ive lost interest now but I could go on and on. Read for yourself
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
Let me be one of the first to say I will NEVER cast a vote for barack obama,EVER,Having said that neither will i cast one for mitt romney as he is just like obama,how do you think he became governor of one of the most left leaning states in the country?I am tired of candidates who do not represent me or my interests and who lie through their teeth to get a vote,no matter the party.I dont think its right for you to say"if your not with us you are helping them"frankly its none of your business what I or anyone else do with OUR votes,Worry about what you will do with your own.We should all be free to make up our own minds and vote our conscience not what some person on the news or the internet tells us to.I would never dream of telling someone how i think they should cast their vote or vote for someone just because they are the same party as myself but instead i will vote for the person i beleive to be the most honest and whose beleifs identify with mine.This kind of party line bullshit is what has gotten us to where we are today,VOTE FOR WHO YOU THINK MOST REPRESENTS YOU NOT FOR WHO YOUR TOLD TOO.First it was "CHANGE" now its "FORWARD",Which fucking spin doctor advertising agency do you think came up with that one?


It's this mentality multiplied times 300million people that keeps it such that our only options are people who don't represent us well.

It's as I've said--you don't go from shit to perfect. You go from shit, to better, to better, to better, ad nauseum--never really getting to perfect.

As long as everyone feels this way (and most of us who are not specifically on the right do)--then we are going to end up with people we don't want running the country. Not voting is not taking a stand--it's casting a vote for whoever wins the election essentially. It's checking out.

I really can't say that I blame you or anyone for this--but it's not going to fix it, dude.
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
I kind of just watched that video. I guess it works for people trained to get there info from watching tv like most americians.

Jobs- they changed the requirements and changed the old ways job figure were reported. they also did this in canada and the us with safe radiaion levels. Because of Fukasima both contries were getting unsafe reading so the increased the number making it reportable safe now.

His job creation- Come on now. have you not heard about the jobs he created at a crazy costs to the americian taxpayers.

Technology inovation- come now you must of read how almost all of his solar engery investments have gone bankrupt. Which I might add that these people donated large sums for his elections.

Markets increase- yes they did make the markets increase by doubling or trippling the money supply. I cant keep track any more. wait its tripple cause they did QE1, QE2 and QE3 is on the table. The gain is artificial.

Obama is on track to break Bushes exective order record. Meaning he creates law the elected congress won't pass all by himself just like a KING.

Ive lost interest now but I could go on and on. Read for yourself

Again, its not about perfection.

It's about an alternative to Romney and the Christian right.

I believe a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy, gays should be able to marry, etc. and so on and so forth.

I don't think its their fucking business. Not all of us believe in the Bible--its really that simple for me.
 
nebulius

nebulius

457
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Here's my quick 2c. Get rid of all parties (they create bias) vote on merits alone. Get ride of electoral college votes and switch to popular vote, we now have the technology and every vote should count (Bush-Gore as an example). Change campaign financing.
 
Skunkmasterflex

Skunkmasterflex

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There aren't separate parties. It's all a dog and pony act. I look at political parties like its the wwf (not that I watch the wwf). It's all a show to get you to lean towards certain ideas. They can get you to agree with things you normally wouldn't just because you believe in some of the stuff they are saying and are the party you side with. I don't talk politics to much as iv found it always ends in drama. This country is ran nothing like our founding fathers intended it to be nor wanted it to be. If they were alive to see what this country has become they would freak. If you read the constitution or decloration of independence it's patriotic and almost gives you chills. My true feeling On the next presidential election is that I have not been impressed by any of the people running. No good choices. I just look at it this way. Who will be best for the job and carry themselves to gain the respect of other nations so that war doesn't break out. We don't need another cowboy like bush. Not much has changed with Obama in office but no one can turn a whole country and economy around in one term.
I respect all the things that have been said in this thread because everyone is allowed there own opinions and ideas. But in the end we all want the same thing....the best man for the job.~Smf~
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Well said skunkmasterflex.

I disagree slightly that it is all a WWF match--but there is certainly some of this going on. I like that you still essentially look at it as "who won't fuck it up" or "who will fuck it up the least"

This is really the way that I look at it too--just a bit more critically perhaps. I think that until we make the "right" decision on who will fuck it up the least for like 20 years straight--we won't see any evidence that we made the right decision. There is this constant tug of war between both of sides that never sees any of the issues resolved, or progress made.

We'd be better off with a 100% republican plan rather than this hybrid bullshit we keep getting--and you can believe it makes me cringe to say that. (I'd still rather the 100% democratic plan, though).
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

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Am I really going here? :rolleyes:

I believe a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy, .
well you went there..so.... Can I ask one, Yes or No question of you bout this statement?

Q. Do you think Abortion is a good thing? ( i think I know the answer)

I think you probably agree with the "Right"...It Is Not good.
Some of us feel very strongly that "stopping a beating heart of a human being" Is NOT Cool
In the US alone there are
3,322 abortions per day:mad:

Who is gonna make a stand for those Babies?
Do what you want to your own body..No one should tell someone what to do with there own body
some of us just dont think any body have two separate beating hearts. and have the option to stop one of them.


EDIT; Ok I went out and took a few hits...
Blazed

Im better now...

Im just sayin...I dont want my Tax money going to any more killing...

and that includes the WARS the "Right" want to fight

Ron paul 2012


Blazed
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Do I think it's good?

No.

Would I want it done if it were up to me?

No.

Do I think it should be up to me?

No.

You either, for that matter.
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

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Do I think it's good?

No.

Would I want it done if it were up to me?

No.

Do I think it should be up to me?

No.

You either, for that matter.


Cool... I agree..its not up to me....But What happens with MY tax money should be MY concern.
ya think?
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Cool... I agree..its not up to me....But What happens with MY tax money should be MY concern.
ya think?

Yes but there are no programs where your tax money goes to pay for this.

There is no such thing as a government subsidized abortion.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Being pregnant is a medical condition. It can cause:

Death
Disfigurement
Paralysis
Psychological Damage
Stroke
Aneurism/Blood Clotting
List goes on

I'm just gonna guess that you're a dude. Well how convenient for you that you'll never have to deal with any of the above stemming from such a condition. The fact is, you don't have the right to tell a woman she must carry a pregnancy to term. Nine months is a long time, and there are a lot of inherent dangers in the process.

I don't think abortion should be used as primary birth control--but stemming this behavior is more about education than prohibition. (Does this sound similar to any other type of governmental prohibition you might have heard of before?)

Making it illegal will only see coat hangers used in dirty alleys rather than a physician with his instruments. History tells us this, clearly.

You can't stop it. You can maybe control it--but again I suggest this will come from education rather than law.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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Yes, they keep the accounts separate.

Those dollars never mingle with one another.

Getting rid of planned parenthood would mean more abortions--that's a fact. Specifically getting rid of the tax-subsidized portions which are meant to reduce unwanted pregnancies for the most part (and to give access to adoption programs and shit like that).

I understand that you don't like that money goes to an organization that does this--but it DOES NOT go to pay for this specific thing. It actually all goes to probably the most effective thing in this country in terms of reducing the rate of unwanted pregnancies, and thereby abortions.
 
sanvanalona

sanvanalona

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Squiggly: Keep on keeping on man! I really for the most part agree with you. We would have one hell of a time with some proper og and nice political discussion. I also must say that reading your posts gives me hope, that not everyone is dissuaded with politics and its always nice to see political opinions that mirror my own.
 
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caregiverken

caregiverken

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Yes, they keep the accounts separate.

Those dollars never mingle with one another.

Getting rid of planned parenthood would mean more abortions--that's a fact. Specifically getting rid of the tax-subsidized portions which are meant to reduce unwanted pregnancies for the most part (and to give access to adoption programs and shit like that).

I understand that you don't like that money goes to an organization that does this--but it DOES NOT go to pay for this specific thing. It actually all goes to probably the most effective thing in this country in terms of reducing the rate of unwanted pregnancies, and thereby abortions.

Yeah But Squiggly...I dont wanna pay for other people's condoms either. :rolleyes:

Do you think I should have to?

I' am just a GED holding surfer dude that spent his life swinging a hammer(so to speak). and sort of a hippy
But
To me, it doesnt seem right for the goverment to demand money (taxes) from people and give it to other people....
People should be able to give freely and joyfully to those in Need.
How can they, when they are taxed to death?...and then that money is wasted killing people in stupid wars...

and Our goverment shouldn't be our babysitter or our Nanny.....our our Kids Nanny's either.

Heck, the founding fathers didn't think we should have standing armys.

But Im glad we can agree to disagree Sqiggly
Hippie guy


Peace out farm Bro :)
 
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