Forbid 4F timeline

[budboy299]

I sprayed forbid @ .5ml per 2L this morning......12 hrs later I still see a few mites moving around. I know its not a resistance as I have only ever used this one time, and label says there is little to no potential for the development for resistance.

Any experiences with this miticide? I just wondered if it perhaps takes a couple days to work. I will spray again in a couple days.

 

[budfriend]

I just had to use that stuff also on some ones i just planted. Sprayed once and a few days later saw mites so hit them again. Did not see any after. But then a few days later i hit them with azamax i think its called, the organic stuff. and the end of this week im going to hit them again with the forbid 4f. Then i'll flip em and in about a week i will hit them with the organic stuff and then a week later im going to hit them with the organic stuff again. About then bud sites will be forming so no more spraying and if the mites are still there i give up....

good luck

 

[CelticEBE]

Ok....I'm by no means the authority on defeating the BORG. But I will tell you what I did this run and it definitely worked for me.

I noticed that the little fuckers had moved into my room again while I was still in veg. I hit them with forbid and saturator. I then hung up two No Pest Strips in the room. Three days later I hit them with Avid and saturator. I haven't seen a mite since.

It's not recommended that you spray with the same thing twice on a crop. Thats how they develop a resistance. I have 6 different things in my arsenal. Floramite, Forbid, Avid, Neem oil, Mitey wash, and Azamax. I rotate things out.

Seamaiden has a really nifty way of dealing with the Borg as well. I believe it's something like this, but search her posts and find it verbatim.....

Put bamboo stakes near your plants and turn fans on the plants bigtime. The mites will seek out the stableness of the bamboo. Everyday wipe the bamboo with a rag drenched in a miticide (forbid, avid, floramite).

If you get deep into flower and they are still there then get yourself some predators.

 

[budboy299]

Good advice here all around :)

CelticEBE...you are exactly right about the not spraying twice with same product. From the bayer site it says "Using FORBID 4F in successive miticide applications during the same growing season is not recommended."

Also states that "Performance evaluations should be made 4 – 10 days after application." I would imagine this means that it takes that long to be totally effective. Maybe because of the translaminar mode of delivery...meaning the spraying of the top side of the leaf will migrate to the lower side of the leaf.
Perhaps this takes a short while to fully happen and kill the lil bastards.

 

[Seamaiden]

Hey Celtic, you remember the method! However, credit must be given where it's due--this is my son's method that he relayed to me. I can't get him to join any canna-sites, and that's really too bad because he knows a lot, has a lot of experience and is just about finished with his schooling (looking towards a horticulture degree, along with something else that for some reason requires calculus).

I just named his method going with a Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon theme.

Green Bamboo (because the bamboo stick should be green, apparently mites have color vision)
Blowing Fan

 

[Emithsuk]

You have to give it time to work its not magic. Fastest death is achieved by physically scrubbing the infested and all plants. Starting from a little plant regularly wash and dunk the plants, take your time and rub the leaves with your fingers. Use the toxic crap early and rotate in effective organic treatments like azamax, sns 217, organocide, and neem oil. Keep everything clean and stay on it every 3 to 7 days up to 2nd week of flower past that you risk mold.

 

[qupee]

wait a day or two. One application of Forbid knocked out all my mites. Haven't seen one since.

 

[Rach70]

I believe the 4-10 days is because depending on the environment, that is how long till any surviving eggs hatch. After doing some reading up on the life cycles of those *bleep* mites, when I got them earlier, I upped the temps in my veg room to 85 (Its normally about 78) and turned on the dehumidifier. They are happier in hot and dry environments, so the eggs hatched out quicker ( 3 days) and I could get through the "debugging" process a bit quicker.

Going at them aggressively is really the only way. While the plants were drying off in the bathroom, I cleaned the carpets in my house, gave the cats flea baths, (they stay inside, but you can't be too safe!) stripped the reflective sheets off the wall, bleached them and all hard surfaces, and then sprayed the floor where the plants sit with Forbid. Now, no one goes in my garden room unless they put on these cute mechanic coveralls and some of those booties carpet cleaners wear. :)

The mites have not returned lol

 

[Bamboo]

The key to defeating the BORG is integrated pest management (IPM). Don't try and find the strongest most powerful product on the block, because unless you are using that product as a part of an IPM program, you are wasting your money, and aimlessly polluting the environment with toxins. The key here is alternating on a regular schedule. Look at the life cycle of the insect that you are trying to eradicate, in this case spider mites. I believe they have a three to four day life cycle between hatching and laying eggs. The smart way to eradicate mites would be to alternate between different pesticides on a 10 day schedule.

Day 1 - Pesticide A
Day 3/4 - Pesticide B
Day 7 - Pesticide C or Back to Pesticide A
Day 10 - Pesticide A if you used C, or back to B if you used A.

The key here is that by repeating attacks with different pesticides, even if you miss a couple due to resistance, the likelihood of any individual mite being resistant to more than one pesticide is unlikely, and the by spraying in a consistent manner, you are killing all the adults and newly hatched eggs before they can continue to lay more eggs.

I purposely left out the pesticides that I use because the last thing we need is everyone running the same formula, but the most important aspect of this is the schedule, and the rotation of pesticide. I have had far better success using this method with mild organic pesticides, than I have ever had using stronger synthetics. Again, use whatever you feel appropriate, or whatever is convenient, the key is rotation and rhythm.

Peace,
Bamboo

 

[click80]

You know I fought these fuckers for two years on and off. I have been mite free for about 5 months now. I started using Caps Foliar Pack and his Root pack. from on here, and in combination with just Neem.

Yeah I thought I had resistant mites following me around like everyone else.

I think my problem was that I allowed my newbiness to establish spidermites in my head as some kind of invinceable enemy. Not true. It takes a healthy plant, clean environment, and IPM with biological controls. You can pick any number of Biologicals, Great White, Subculture...etc

I started using Caps Beneficials, he is on here in the approved vendor thing. I started using his Root pack and Foliar pack as both a root drench, tea and Foliar. I have no bugs. None. Zippo.

I do have roots that look like angel hair pasta.

 

[purpleberry]

Forbid doesnt right out kill them, I believe it stops there ability to reproduce. Resistance happens from them getting low exposure to the spray. Besy way to spray is to make sure you get every single leaf sprayed on the plants, If they are large mothers id either take clones and throw them out, or prune the lower leafs off so you can get the spray in there better. A second spray after 7-10 days makes sure you get them good with the same chemical, and less likely you will end up with resistant mite. After that switch to another organic spray like azatrol going into flower. Over the years ive had mites pop up several times ussally in early summer since where i live there mites everywhere outside, Forbid has got ride of them completely every time and i dont see them again til the next year.

 

[devilsshare]

Lazy farmers who only use one pesticide are in effect breeding supermites that are resistant to whatever pesticide they are using. It only takes one mite out of the (tens of) thousands in a garden to survive and all of its offspring will be immune as well. Forbid is not 'better' than other miticides, it is just the newest one right now, so until the lazy farmers have created Forbid resistant mites and let them loose on fellow farmers, it appears to be the superior product. Integrated pest management is key. Rotating miticides will not only take care of your own mite problem, but helps the greater growing (and agricultural) community keep mites under control on a graeter scale. Organic integrated pest management would be even better. (and actually ethical)

 

[click80]

Lazy farmers who only use one pesticide are in effect breeding supermites that are resistant to whatever pesticide they are using. It only takes one mite out of the (tens of) thousands in a garden to survive and all of its offspring will be immune as well. Forbid is not 'better' than other miticides, it is just the newest one right now, so until the lazy farmers have created Forbid resistant mites and let them loose on fellow farmers, it appears to be the superior product. Integrated pest management is key. Rotating miticides will not only take care of your own mite problem, but helps the greater growing (and agricultural) community keep mites under control on a graeter scale. Organic integrated pest management would be even better. (and actually ethical)

amen brother. I used to think that smites were a fact of life. Since using IPM I have irradicated them. I have only used cleaner methods, biological controls and utilized a more healthy plant to resist the borg.

 

[Daniel Edmondson]

Any one have information on the residual effects of Forbid 4F Miticide & Avid EC Miticide on Predator mites they where both Miticides where developed from organisms found in the soil. They both need to ingested to be effective .
Forbid 4F Miticide say that it has no effect on Predator mites, but I have found nothing about Avid EC Miticide but I do know that it has much short period where it is effect. It begins breaking down in about 48 hours and if it is used in bright light it breaking down much faster. That may have been your problem with the Miticide not working it is suggested that both be sprayed as the plants are going in to dark period . they are both photo sensitive and the stronger the light the faster they break down. The one good thing about Forbid 4F Miticideis after it absorbed into the plant it is no longer photo sensitive.
Forbid 4F Miticide is absorbed into the plant and has a longer residue effect (gone within 6 weeks), but is clearly labeled to have no effect on Predator mites because they don't feed on the plants sap. Has any one had experience releasing Predator mites after using them? Do you need to wait for a period? What happens if you spray them after you have relased the Predators?

 

[Seamaiden]

Thank you for this! So, you're saying that Oberon is exactly the same as Forbid4F, but is a lower strength? (I ask without following the links, got a lot going on here at the moment.)

 

[trinityalps]

Thank you for this! So, you're saying that Oberon is exactly the same as Forbid4F, but is a lower strength? (I ask without following the links, got a lot going on here at the moment.)

Yes, just at a lower concentration. Though I don't know how or what it's formulated with. Oberon might be suspended in a different kind of dispersant, but the active ingredient is the same.

 

[trinityalps]

This is another helpful link about a lot of miticides from Cornell: http://ucanr.edu/sites/UCNFA/files/181232.pdf
And another poster about the different classes of insecticides from IRAC: http://www.irac-online.org/documents/moa-structures-poster-english/?ext=pdf

 

[trinityalps]

This post goes three posts up. Sorry about all the confusion.

---
Here's a bunch of Forbid 4F info. Be overly cautious of this chemical. It's dangerous.

Forbid 4F (http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld6P7000.pdf) and Oberon 2 SC () are Bayer Crop Science products. Both contain the same active ingredient, Spiromesifen, but at different concentrations.

Forbid 4F is for ornamentals ONLY, not for food crops. It's spiromesifen concentrated at 45.2%.

Oberon 2 SC -- also spiromesifen-- is OK to use on many food crops. Its concentration is 23.1%. Same chemical but at about half the concentration.

This link is about Spiromesifen from the State of California Department of Pesticide Regulation: . It’s okayed for some crops, but I wouldn’t use it only very early in the summer or not at all. Hard to know what it does when it combines with trichomes.

This is a bunch of links at UC Davis's IPM site regarding Oberon 2 SC:

It's very effective against egg and nymph stages and should be used during the mite build-up period is what they say.

• If you're going to use Forbid 4F, use half as much as directed, or 1-2 oz /100 gallons to get you to the concentrations for food crop uses. (100 gallons = 12,800 ounces... be careful doing the math).
• As per their label, wear long sleeve shirts, long pants, socks, shoes a mask and rubber gloves when applying. I'd wear a carbon filter mask. Change clothes immediately afterwards and shower with detergent. Wash clothes separately. Clean your sprayer with detergent and rinse several times. If you have pets. I wouldn’t let them in the spray area for a long time... maybe wash the floor down a couple of times too.
• Wait 12 hours before re-entering the area you sprayed. The residue can stay on the plant for up to 28 days so wear gloves and long sleeves for a month after spraying.
• I'm not sure how long you should wait before harvest--Pre-Harvest Interval (PHI)-- varies by crop but the minimum is strawberries at 3 days and the max is cotton at 30 days. I'd err on the maximum side, but again it’s really hard to know how it reacts to trichomes.

It's ethical for us as food producers to play by the rules, follow directions and not poison customers, friends, neighbors, and ourselves and create resistant pests.

UC Davis has a lot of information about Integrated Pest Management online at:

Danke!
Trinity

 

[trinityalps]

Forbid doesnt right out kill them, I believe it stops there ability to reproduce. Resistance happens from them getting low exposure to the spray. Besy way to spray is to make sure you get every single leaf sprayed on the plants, If they are large mothers id either take clones and throw them out, or prune the lower leafs off so you can get the spray in there better. A second spray after 7-10 days makes sure you get them good with the same chemical, and less likely you will end up with resistant mite. After that switch to another organic spray like azatrol going into flower. Over the years ive had mites pop up several times ussally in early summer since where i live there mites everywhere outside, Forbid has got ride of them completely every time and i dont see them again til the next year.

Forbid actually kills the nymphs and eggs so adults might survive.

 

[Mrstylez]

Ok....I'm by no means the authority on defeating the BORG. But I will tell you what I did this run and it definitely worked for me.

Didn't know that about spraying the same thing twice. Thanks for the advice!

I noticed that the little fuckers had moved into my room again while I was still in veg. I hit them with forbid and saturator. I then hung up two No Pest Strips in the room. Three days later I hit them with Avid and saturator. I haven't seen a mite since.

It's not recommended that you spray with the same thing twice on a crop. Thats how they develop a resistance. I have 6 different things in my arsenal. Floramite, Forbid, Avid, Neem oil, Mitey wash, and Azamax. I rotate things out.

Seamaiden has a really nifty way of dealing with the Borg as well. I believe it's something like this, but search her posts and find it verbatim.....

Put bamboo stakes near your plants and turn fans on the plants bigtime. The mites will seek out the stableness of the bamboo. Everyday wipe the bamboo with a rag drenched in a miticide (forbid, avid, floramite).

If you get deep into flower and they are still there then get yourself some predators.