azmmjadvocates
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Ok here’s the deal; I’m just going to post what I wrote to Dr. Peters (head chemist) regarding the 5-12-26 and the lack of total solubility which in their own words, it should have. You can get the gist of what is going on by reading what I wrote them so I’ll save my breath. Haven’t heard back as of yet but I have a hunch there are some of you out there that may figure this out. It will be a good exercise anyway.
Also in case you didn’t know, I’m not the only person to figure out that jacks 5-12-24 has a problem with hitchhiking buggars. Their website does not include the 5-12-26 with the algae problem (or whatever it is that grows in stock solutions) but it is there and that is why I would like to put some h202 or chlorine in my stock. It isn’t from my containers as the gal at Jacks first suggested, I must also say they are good folks there so I’m not complaining, this is just another step to figure out my problem i'm having so my yealds can go back to what I’m use to having. My Veg is absolutely loving 3 5-12-24 and 2.44 of Cano3
So here is the email with my name removed;
This came back to me as undeliverable, I assume because of the file size with photos, (9mb). I have removed all but one of the photos now., the last showing material in the bottom. It looks to me to be crystals or metalic, i'ts hard to tell from the photo. Another thing I forgot to mention is that in the past when I placed the 5-12-20 into a 2l bottle and added ro or distilled directly to it, the bottom would get real hot when mixing. That is a reason I mix in a bucket, figuring perhaps It should be stirred rather than shaken however, the result is always the same.
From:
To:
Subject:
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:00:26 -0600
Hello Dr. Peters.
My name is, I was referred to you by Lyn she suggested I present you with a couple questions. I’m hoping that you can resolve issues Im having so I don’t have to publish to forums asking for other growers suggestions about jacks 5-12-26 that I keep hearing great things about.
The first question that is pretty straightforward is this; can I add chlorine or h2o2 to a stock solution to prevent alge growth? I though I read on a thread somewhere you do not recommend mixing 5-12-26 with chlorinated water? If so, is that due to some effect on EDTA’s or just because chlorinated h20 is usually tap and that has Calcium and who knows what else? I use RO and add chlorine in measured amount. Ive noticed that after about day 5 after mixing a stock solution, small growth starts in my stalk solution container, not a lot but enough to annoy me.. Lyn advised that I should use the stock within 5 days, however that defeats the purpose of a stock. I sanitize my rex with h2o2 or give 10ml chlorine pr 20gal which some plants I grow need as a nutrient, others tolerate it well too, I rotate h2o2 with chlorine each week in rez changes. Is 5-12-26 only be added directly to the Rez. If there is no ability to sanitize the stock?
My bigger dilemma is with indissolubility and lyn states there should be total dissolvability.
I’m dissolving a 2L concentrate (stock) for 80 gallons. 240g of 5-12-26 (only, no other ingredients) in 2 L of warm distilled water (started with multiple RO sources, went to distilled after problem continues) (tried hot water too). Ive tried shaking, stirring, you name it, stainless steel, glass pot, BP free plastic bucket lol. I suspect contamination of some sort, I keep my ferts in the original package in a 5 gallon bucket sealed with a screw on gamma lid (see photo’s), air tight and in temps not exceeding 85 degrees.
Lyn had stated that it may be a trace of Calcium in my container causing a precipitate. Photo shows I thoroughly cleaned and rinsed with distilled h2o (rinse was after sanitize and air dry), also EC’d h2o after distilled h2o sat in container for an hour, no EC change. The photo that shows the 200ppm chlorine sanitizer was for the bucket and was also made with distilled h20 so there should not have been any calcium present to cause the slightest precipitate..
Lyn stated the limit of dissolvability is 1/2 tsp pr gallon, that didn’t make sense to me and seemed like the recipe for small batches of finished solution, and now I confirm that from what lyn sent in mixing directions. your dissolvability of jacks should be roughly 1 ½ pounds per 2L if my calculations are correct? Which I am way way under, I couldn’t imagine not being able to mix a stock for only 80 gallons. Irrigardless I am doing this experiment with a total of 2l h2o and adding 240g to total volume of h20 to rule out any displacement guessing, again that is way way under dissolvability, if packaging info is correct.
I don’t go by teaspoons for measuring, I use calibrated scales, tds, ec, and ppm meters all with backups, so it isn’t like I just decided to grow Hydroponics yesterday, you can refere in ppm’s and weighted measures. As I stated to lyn I’ve used multiple RO sources, I have not experienced this problem with mixing other nutes that are totally h2o soluble. I’m no expert though so perhaps It’s my error somehow. You will see my ec taken from the 2l bottle of distilled h20 after it sat for an hour. So my conclusion is there isn’t anything leaching from my containers. They are squeaky clean
I decided to go about this in a scientific approach to help you, help me to see the errors of my ways. I trying to rule out ANY contaminated ro on my end by using distilled (yet this time again) and taking photos along the way with ec measurements. This shouldn’t be rocket science.
Lyn stated if it was a batch problem I wouldn’t be the only one reporting a problem, that may be true, but would I be informed if there was a problem back in January? I informed her that I purchased this quite a while back, Jan 22, 2012 ( I did not tell her the date). I quit using the product after noticing un-dissolved solids, crunchies that I worried about getting in my pumps. I went to other products, but keep coming back to this bag because of hearing so much positive feedback from other growers, also to use it up.. Ive been using it up alright dumping and dumping, mixing and mixing again and again. Plants have had strange lockout problems and I’ve been chasing deficiency problems that look like MG deficiency. This is un characteristic results for my methods of cultivating, I though I had off gassing issues, old hydroten, ect.. Each step of the way illuminating them from the equation through a scientific approach, like new hydroten next to a year old cleaned hydroten, nope that isn’t the issue. Take everything out of my room sanitize, change panda, take out the tent, ect. Nope not the problem... I’m not saying this is the issue, I just need to rule out something that seems odd. I may just go back to mixing Hoagland.
2 different scales calibrated to 20g rules out measuring error.
EC of Distilled bottled water with reading of 0
Containers checked for leaching, EC reading 0
mixed with warm water new plastic stirrer, mix, wait, wait, wait.
Photo shows salts that are shinny, perhaps a metal? I could run it through a coffee filter and send it to you?
Thank you in advance for any suggestions you might have.
Then I sent this email;
I sent you an email earlier one came back undeliverable I believe due to the number of photos I sent you, I forwarded that again with only one picture and it seems to have been delivered. So I took another photo just now after I strained the solution through a new nylon stalking. Took some photo's from the camera and some through the microscope, looks like some kind of salts and something black and squiggley. Ill try sending 2 pics.
Also in case you didn’t know, I’m not the only person to figure out that jacks 5-12-24 has a problem with hitchhiking buggars. Their website does not include the 5-12-26 with the algae problem (or whatever it is that grows in stock solutions) but it is there and that is why I would like to put some h202 or chlorine in my stock. It isn’t from my containers as the gal at Jacks first suggested, I must also say they are good folks there so I’m not complaining, this is just another step to figure out my problem i'm having so my yealds can go back to what I’m use to having. My Veg is absolutely loving 3 5-12-24 and 2.44 of Cano3
So here is the email with my name removed;
This came back to me as undeliverable, I assume because of the file size with photos, (9mb). I have removed all but one of the photos now., the last showing material in the bottom. It looks to me to be crystals or metalic, i'ts hard to tell from the photo. Another thing I forgot to mention is that in the past when I placed the 5-12-20 into a 2l bottle and added ro or distilled directly to it, the bottom would get real hot when mixing. That is a reason I mix in a bucket, figuring perhaps It should be stirred rather than shaken however, the result is always the same.
From:
To:
Subject:
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 15:00:26 -0600
Hello Dr. Peters.
My name is, I was referred to you by Lyn she suggested I present you with a couple questions. I’m hoping that you can resolve issues Im having so I don’t have to publish to forums asking for other growers suggestions about jacks 5-12-26 that I keep hearing great things about.
The first question that is pretty straightforward is this; can I add chlorine or h2o2 to a stock solution to prevent alge growth? I though I read on a thread somewhere you do not recommend mixing 5-12-26 with chlorinated water? If so, is that due to some effect on EDTA’s or just because chlorinated h20 is usually tap and that has Calcium and who knows what else? I use RO and add chlorine in measured amount. Ive noticed that after about day 5 after mixing a stock solution, small growth starts in my stalk solution container, not a lot but enough to annoy me.. Lyn advised that I should use the stock within 5 days, however that defeats the purpose of a stock. I sanitize my rex with h2o2 or give 10ml chlorine pr 20gal which some plants I grow need as a nutrient, others tolerate it well too, I rotate h2o2 with chlorine each week in rez changes. Is 5-12-26 only be added directly to the Rez. If there is no ability to sanitize the stock?
My bigger dilemma is with indissolubility and lyn states there should be total dissolvability.
I’m dissolving a 2L concentrate (stock) for 80 gallons. 240g of 5-12-26 (only, no other ingredients) in 2 L of warm distilled water (started with multiple RO sources, went to distilled after problem continues) (tried hot water too). Ive tried shaking, stirring, you name it, stainless steel, glass pot, BP free plastic bucket lol. I suspect contamination of some sort, I keep my ferts in the original package in a 5 gallon bucket sealed with a screw on gamma lid (see photo’s), air tight and in temps not exceeding 85 degrees.
Lyn had stated that it may be a trace of Calcium in my container causing a precipitate. Photo shows I thoroughly cleaned and rinsed with distilled h2o (rinse was after sanitize and air dry), also EC’d h2o after distilled h2o sat in container for an hour, no EC change. The photo that shows the 200ppm chlorine sanitizer was for the bucket and was also made with distilled h20 so there should not have been any calcium present to cause the slightest precipitate..
Lyn stated the limit of dissolvability is 1/2 tsp pr gallon, that didn’t make sense to me and seemed like the recipe for small batches of finished solution, and now I confirm that from what lyn sent in mixing directions. your dissolvability of jacks should be roughly 1 ½ pounds per 2L if my calculations are correct? Which I am way way under, I couldn’t imagine not being able to mix a stock for only 80 gallons. Irrigardless I am doing this experiment with a total of 2l h2o and adding 240g to total volume of h20 to rule out any displacement guessing, again that is way way under dissolvability, if packaging info is correct.
I don’t go by teaspoons for measuring, I use calibrated scales, tds, ec, and ppm meters all with backups, so it isn’t like I just decided to grow Hydroponics yesterday, you can refere in ppm’s and weighted measures. As I stated to lyn I’ve used multiple RO sources, I have not experienced this problem with mixing other nutes that are totally h2o soluble. I’m no expert though so perhaps It’s my error somehow. You will see my ec taken from the 2l bottle of distilled h20 after it sat for an hour. So my conclusion is there isn’t anything leaching from my containers. They are squeaky clean
I decided to go about this in a scientific approach to help you, help me to see the errors of my ways. I trying to rule out ANY contaminated ro on my end by using distilled (yet this time again) and taking photos along the way with ec measurements. This shouldn’t be rocket science.
Lyn stated if it was a batch problem I wouldn’t be the only one reporting a problem, that may be true, but would I be informed if there was a problem back in January? I informed her that I purchased this quite a while back, Jan 22, 2012 ( I did not tell her the date). I quit using the product after noticing un-dissolved solids, crunchies that I worried about getting in my pumps. I went to other products, but keep coming back to this bag because of hearing so much positive feedback from other growers, also to use it up.. Ive been using it up alright dumping and dumping, mixing and mixing again and again. Plants have had strange lockout problems and I’ve been chasing deficiency problems that look like MG deficiency. This is un characteristic results for my methods of cultivating, I though I had off gassing issues, old hydroten, ect.. Each step of the way illuminating them from the equation through a scientific approach, like new hydroten next to a year old cleaned hydroten, nope that isn’t the issue. Take everything out of my room sanitize, change panda, take out the tent, ect. Nope not the problem... I’m not saying this is the issue, I just need to rule out something that seems odd. I may just go back to mixing Hoagland.
2 different scales calibrated to 20g rules out measuring error.
EC of Distilled bottled water with reading of 0
Containers checked for leaching, EC reading 0
mixed with warm water new plastic stirrer, mix, wait, wait, wait.
Photo shows salts that are shinny, perhaps a metal? I could run it through a coffee filter and send it to you?
Thank you in advance for any suggestions you might have.
Then I sent this email;
I sent you an email earlier one came back undeliverable I believe due to the number of photos I sent you, I forwarded that again with only one picture and it seems to have been delivered. So I took another photo just now after I strained the solution through a new nylon stalking. Took some photo's from the camera and some through the microscope, looks like some kind of salts and something black and squiggley. Ill try sending 2 pics.