120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

[midwestdensies]

All this is pretty cool info. I have noticed more inconsistencies the more skilled I become with coco and really needed that extra push to make me run a peat table of sunshine4. Thanks dizzlekush for sharing that info, extremely detailed and well documented.

 

[LexLuthor]

If you do peat just do 50/50 peat and perlite. Thats the old school recipe. No need to do hydroton/peat IMHO.

Can I use just plain peat moss from Lowe's w/ perlite, or did you use an amended mix like Sunshine??

 

[dizzlekush]

Can I use just plain peat moss from Lowe's w/ perlite, or did you use an amended mix like Sunshine??

definitely start off with a preformulated mix. I suggest Sunshine #4 or Berger BM6.

 

[Capulator]

Can I use just plain peat moss from Lowe's w/ perlite, or did you use an amended mix like Sunshine??

I mix my own, but that's just me... canadian peat moss comes in a bale 2.5 cu ft. I believe. I buy mine at the nursery and I get he perlite there too.

 

[kushtrees]

If you do peat just do 50/50 peat and perlite. Thats the old school recipe. No need to do hydroton/peat IMHO.

What about like 80/20 or 90/10 perlite/ peat than? I'm trying to get the higher air: water ratio that chow mix has without the coco.

I have definitely found my plants grow faster in hydroton heavy chow than the old 50/50 coco perlite so I would like to keep the air to the roots as high as possible without switching to RDWC or aero.

Looks like another side my side is in order chow vs 80/20 perlite peat

 

[ttystikk]

I recently switched to coco and I'm really pretty happy.

My main gripe about the coco is that I'm using the small stuff and it likes to clog my irggiation system.

What's the attraction of peat? Also, does it make sense to run peat and hydroton together?

 

[GanjaAL]

Is there any preping the peat moss? I have been reading up and found that some people were having trouble with it and having to add lime.

 

[ttystikk]

Is there any preping the peat moss? I have been reading up and found that some people were having trouble with it and having to add lime.

Lime does two things; reduces pH and adds calcium. Our favorite plants really really like their calcium, might this have anything to do with it?

 

[GanjaAL]

Most likely that is it. Fickel plants we love...LOL

 

[Capulator]

What about like 80/20 or 90/10 perlite/ peat than? I'm trying to get the higher air: water ratio that chow mix has without the coco.

I have definitely found my plants grow faster in hydroton heavy chow than the old 50/50 coco perlite so I would like to keep the air to the roots as high as possible without switching to RDWC or aero.

Looks like another side my side is in order chow vs 80/20 perlite peat

have you tried 100% perlite?

 

[kushtrees]

I tried some all perlite buckets with a 24/7 drip like Janus does a year or so ago. It worked well but I like DTW more and all perlite didn't seem to go with that. I have been considering going back to it though

I have never tried all perlite hempies though, and I was recently at a greenhouse that was doing perlite bato buckets for tomatoes which are essentially hooked together hempies if I'm not mistaken, and they looked great.

Many peat products come with lime mixed in. I dnt see how that can be a bad thing though. Plus if there is a Ca that comes with peat, it's probably better than the Ca and Mg issues that come with coco

Have u tried all perlite cap? If so I would love to hear how you have done it

 

[LexLuthor]

I mix my own, but that's just me... canadian peat moss comes in a bale 2.5 cu ft. I believe. I buy mine at the nursery and I get he perlite there too.

I already have a 3 cu.ft. bale and a lil perlite. I got some seedlings in rockwool so I'll probably toss those in the 50/50 peat/perlite mix, thanks.

 

[LexLuthor]

definitely start off with a preformulated mix. I suggest Sunshine #4 or Berger BM6.

I don't want any micro bacteria in my mix, if thats what Sunshine has. I wanna run straight synthetics with peat, just like I do with the perlite hempy's.

I use benny's for soil.

 

[dizzlekush]

I don't want any micro bacteria in my mix, if thats what Sunshine has. I wanna run straight synthetics with peat, just like I do with the perlite hempy's.

I use benny's for soil.

Sunshine doesn't come with any amended microbes or inoculations, it does however come with a 6-5-11 starting nutrient charge, dolomite lime and a wetting agent. I just suggest starting with a good preformulated mix to insure that you have adequate air porosity and proper liming, since those can be the shortcomings of a peat mix. I know growers that have given up on peat simply due to poor liming in their mix causing pH issues.

Lime does two things; reduces pH and adds calcium. Our favorite plants really really like their calcium, might this have anything to do with it?

Liming INCREASES pH, it doens't reduce it. Albrecht suggested that all the benefits of liming came from the added Ca irrespective of its effects on pH. Pretty sure Albrecht was dead wrong, though.

 

[Capulator]

I don't want any micro bacteria in my mix, if thats what Sunshine has. I wanna run straight synthetics with peat, just like I do with the perlite hempy's.

I use benny's for soil.

You can use bennies for hydro. They work great. Just not mycorrhizae.

 

[dizzlekush]

Search Registered Products
As of: 2/20/2012
Product Name: Banana Manna
OMRI Listed: No WSDA Organic Program Listed: No
Product Status Brand Name Waste Derived Pesticide
Registered Tropical Organics No No
Registrant: AGRO AMERICA INC - BELLEVUE, WA (425) 454-5731
Heavy Metals (in Parts Per Million)
Arsenic: < 1.9 Cadmium: < 0.19 Mercury: < 0.1 Lead: < 0.97 Nickel: < 1.9
Non Plant Food Ingredients
Humic Acid Indole3 Butyric Acid Naphthaleneacetic Acid Phosphorous Acid

Kelp Vitamin B1 Polyacrylamide Potting Mix

Other Ingredients Banana Extract 0.01%

look what i just happened to find:

View attachment 239921

Could i get the source of these tests?

Are these saying that they contained the non-plant food ingredients listed, or just that the ingredients were tested for? The way im reading it they just tested for it and MOAB had only B1 as a non plant food ingredient, and banana manna only had the banana extract.

 

[leadsled]

Could i get the source of these tests?

Oregon Department of Agriculture
If links do not work, remove spaces and copy paste to browser url.
oda . state . or . us / dbs / heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=127

banna manna
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=127
MOAB
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/detail.lasso?-op=eq&product_id=22605

Are these saying that they contained the non-plant food ingredients listed, or just that the ingredients were tested for? The way im reading it they just tested for it and MOAB had only B1 as a non plant food ingredient, and banana manna only had the banana extract.

yes. that is correct.

 

[LexLuthor]

Sunshine doesn't come with any amended microbes or inoculations, it does however come with a 6-5-11 starting nutrient charge, dolomite lime and a wetting agent. I just suggest starting with a good preformulated mix to insure that you have adequate air porosity and proper liming, since those can be the shortcomings of a peat mix. I know growers that have given up on peat simply due to poor liming in their mix causing pH issues.

Thanks bro, now that I know more about Sunshine, it sounds really good and will match what I'm doing. I'll probably grab some this weekend.

 

[LexLuthor]

You can use bennies for hydro. They work great. Just not mycorrhizae.

I know, I just don't want bennies in my hydro setup......

........but, I'll probably grab some goodies from you when I plant some beaners in soil ;) Thanx

 

[Capulator]

I know, I just don't want bennies in my hydro setup......

........but, I'll probably grab some goodies from you when I plant some beaners in soil ;) Thanx

I was not trying to advertise. sorry if it came off that way. I was just saying that things like trichoderma, pseudomonas, streptomyces, and bacillus etc.. were great in hydro. As a foliar bennies work wonders too. If you haven't tried it you should. Seagreen is great, or the microlife photosynth plus... or my stuff.. just to see what a difference it can make.

I run tea in an MPB as opposed to sterile and my plants have never looked better.